New fighter for PAF Doctrine?

[Readerdefence]

Hi there is a possibility of getting J10 at its utmost maturity before phasing out Deltas mirages as J10 is more suitable in this role if there isn’t anything in jf17s sleeve then J10 will come ASAP
my understanding is China want us to buy J10 with long range missiles then we might see same missile for jf17 this way other countries will also be looking to order J10s might Bengladesh and Iran can be the next ultimate customers for J10 in coming days
thank you

 

[spectregunship]

I once had a word with SAAB Aviation's spoke. He said PAF never really approached them for Gripen. This is something difficult to believe, but it may be that PAF never 'officially' tendered a purchase request with the Swedish govt &/or SAAB, regardless of the fact that they may have thoroughly evaluated the aircraft.

as far as I know, Sweden has this twisted logic of not selling "offensive systems" for Pakistan... its a first hand account where PN was in the process of looking out for LRMPAs and intended to test out Swordfish as well.. did not get a positive response on evaluation even let alone test it out..

 

[SABRE]

as far as I know, Sweden has this twisted logic of not selling "offensive systems" for Pakistan... its a first hand account where PN was in the process of looking out for LRMPAs and intended to test out Swordfish as well.. did not get a positive response on evaluation even let alone test it out..

Well, in terms of stated policy, not just Pakistan but any conflict prone country. But they threw the policy out the window for India seeing all those $$$. Capitalism beats morality, it seems.

 

[Salza]

as far as I know, Sweden has this twisted logic of not selling "offensive systems" for Pakistan... its a first hand account where PN was in the process of looking out for LRMPAs and intended to test out Swordfish as well.. did not get a positive response on evaluation even let alone test it out..

I disagree. Selling Awacs to Pakistan has been great marketing for their weapons. UAE bought Saab global eye because of Paf. And after Saab 2000, Swordfish could had been the most logical buy for Pakistan. They will never hesitate to sell it to Pakistan still now but the problem is, they ain't cheap.

 

[mingle]

I disagree. Selling Awacs to Pakistan has been great marketing for their weapons. UAE bought Saab global eye because of Paf. And after Saab 2000, Swordfish could had been the most logical buy for Pakistan. They will never hesitate to sell it to Pakistan still now but the problem is, they ain't cheap.

Let's see what weapons system will be placed at lineage jet hopefully Saab sowrd fish? Never know

 

[Akh1112]

Let's see what weapons system will be placed at lineage jet hopefully Saab sowrd fish? Never know

Swordfish is nothing special. Infact, the PN can very easily mirror the swordfish system by system. It was an amalgamation of COTS components put together in a single package with a SAAB bow on top. PNs new LRMPA mirrors this strategy and takes off the shelf components and puts it into the Lineage 1000E, its no different to SAABs approach, no need to have a third party SI in the form of SAAB do it, it could be anyone, heck, if PAC could do it, they should. Theres no reason they CANT, itll take time and investment but PAC has done weapons and sensor integration themselves, its just that this is alot more in depth and extensive

 

[spectregunship]

I disagree. Selling Awacs to Pakistan has been great marketing for their weapons. UAE bought Saab global eye because of Paf. And after Saab 2000, Swordfish could had been the most logical buy for Pakistan. They will never hesitate to sell it to Pakistan still now but the problem is, they ain't cheap.

You have good point on the funding aspect of it but unfortunately it was the case in my previous post. Erieye may have been a success story but swordfish was not even showcased as mentioned despite an RFI. It is never just about the money in our case remember we have nukes and a reputation of being unstable in terms of political system which doesn't go well especially with Scandinavians although their double standards are debatable.
Let me also mention that despite being an old customer we have not been able to secure any more orders for AD systems from Saab, for the same very reasons. Otherwise, PA AD remains a fan.

 

[Vapnope]

Well, in terms of stated policy, not just Pakistan but any conflict prone country. But they threw the policy out the window for India seeing all those $$$. Capitalism beats morality, it seems.

The same Sweden sold us RBS70s in good numbers...

 

[Reichmarshal]

The sort of knowledge/and tech know how that PAF gained with the inhouse rebuild of the erieye is second to non. The insight and experience it has given PAF techs is only available to the manufactures.
more like a gift from GOD be it at a slight cost.

PN LRMPA in all probability is an offset/continuation of the experience gained.

 

[ziaulislam]

You have good point on the funding aspect of it but unfortunately it was the case in my previous post. Erieye may have been a success story but swordfish was not even showcased as mentioned despite an RFI. It is never just about the money in our case remember we have nukes and a reputation of being unstable in terms of political system which doesn't go well especially with Scandinavians although their double standards are debatable.
Let me also mention that despite being an old customer we have not been able to secure any more orders for AD systems from Saab, for the same very reasons. Otherwise, PA AD remains a fan.

Saab isnt idiot..
It has nothing to do with our anything and everything to do with india

If saab is given a clear no or banned like italy they will come begging to sale their system

Mind you saab sold its aircarft to saudis..people per them still live in old ages, chop hands and will not allow women to drive ..it is basically a rich version of taliban..taliban told zalmey "why do you tolerare saudis but not us..we wont be any harsh then saudis"

Better to develop your own system now..go and do a JV with turkey and italy

 

[SABRE]

The same Sweden sold us RBS70s in good numbers...

I do not know if their weapons export policy is merely a stated policy of their successive governments or a constitutional or legal one but they have stated they'll not sell "offensive weapons" to conflict prone countries. But the term "offensive weapon" is very hazy. Swedish government must have opted to qualify RBS70 both as a small weapon and "defensive weapon." Irony is in viewing Gripen as offensive capability in Pakistan's case and defensive capability in India's case - provided that Pakistan did actually request the aircraft.

If I remember correctly, there was a little bit of fuss over Erieye sales to Pakistan by SAAB+Ericsson as well. But the company qualified the sales as not just non-offensive but also humanitarian. The companies said that had they sold the system prior to the 2005 earthquake in Azad Kashmir it would have been helpful in the search and rescue operations.

From what it seems, offensive and defensive capabilities are defined more by the items' financial values and availability of large funds with the importers than by Sweden's moral values.

 

[Goritoes]

I am pretty sure that PAF will once again try to communicate with US for MLU's kit and additional New F-16 most likely F-16's, a similar deal of 18 units can be reached with delivery would take up to 2-4 years while the JF-block III fills the gap in both Quantity and with decent Quality. Honestly, I'd be surprised if PAF actually buys J-10CE now when JF- block 3 are ready to be integrated by the end of this year, and if they do then I am but forced to believe that PAF has/might send a list of upgrades and changes (Electronics) to the Chinese before finalizing for XYZ numbers of the fighters.

 

[araz]

Swordfish is nothing special. Infact, the PN can very easily mirror the swordfish system by system. It was an amalgamation of COTS components put together in a single package with a SAAB bow on top. PNs new LRMPA mirrors this strategy and takes off the shelf components and puts it into the Lineage 1000E, its no different to SAABs approach, no need to have a third party SI in the form of SAAB do it, it could be anyone, heck, if PAC could do it, they should. Theres no reason they CANT, itll take time and investment but PAC has done weapons and sensor integration themselves, its just that this is alot more in depth and extensive

Is this from the confidence gained from repairing Saab Erieyes? Seems we want to take that skill set to the next level. I also see perhaps PAC might have been involved as visitors in the MPA conversion in Germany. If they have been involved that skill set can come in handy. If they encounter difficulties they can always get the same team to do it/give tips on technical hitches.
A

 

[Akh1112]

Is this from the confidence gained from repairing Saab Erieyes? Seems we want to take that skill set to the next level. I also see perhaps PAC might have been involved as visitors in the MPA conversion in Germany. If they have been involved that skill set can come in handy. If they encounter difficulties they can always get the same team to do it/give tips on technical hitches.
A

I could see that being of value in this. What im wondering is why the silence with the converstion, if it was RAS, we would have seen some indication, either directly from them or from elsewhere- they may not specify the customer but there would be some indication of them having an order, who is doing this conversion then?

 

[araz]

I could see that being of value in this. What im wondering is why the silence with the converstion, if it was RAS, we would have seen some indication, either directly from them or from elsewhere- they may not specify the customer but there would be some indication of them having an order, who is doing this conversion then?

But by the same token if we were doing it ourselves why the need for so much secrecy. So taking this to its logical conclusion this is either a multinational venture with 2/more countries reaping the benefits of this work and the economies of scale would make this project worth while for all parties concerned or PN has just not crystallized the project and when we are closer to formulating a deal announcement will be made. If multiple countries are involved there maybe merit in protecting their identity or PAC later on wants to offer the service to other client states.
So quite a few thoughts and possibilities to consider. I have no source to substantiate anything I say and this is my opinion so please feel free to agree/disagree/keep quiet.
Kind regards.
A