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New fighter for PAF Doctrine?

Zarvan

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Just like the rifle competition was a done deal, right?

I'm not criticizing you, but we need to be more realistic.

EVEN IF PAF decides to buy a fleet of J-10c, it'll be years before PAF will receive even a single one. Not to mention the training and infrastructure needed to operate and maintain the J-10c fleet.

But it still comes down to 1 single issue, price. Keep in mind, the US never barred Pakistan from buying f-16s, Pakistan was just required to pay out of it's own pocket, instead of using US funding meant for Pakistan. The PAF could have easily bought more F16s, which it wants to do, but it can't due to a lack of funding.
It won't be years Sir. We would receive them really soon. Also for more F-16 money is not the issue, USA policies are right now. J-10 C are coming. All things are pointing towards it.
@Zarvan sir already posted this Holly prediction that j10C is coming to Pakistan just like he did his SU-35 Prediction few years ago
This holy prediction has been posted by now by me. In fact until few months back I was denying this news. I got only confirmed when this very forum on their twitter and facebook account posted J-10 C picture and posted the picture coming soon. Also few other very credible started saying it.
 

Signalian

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Pakistan needs better long range strike capabilities into India, as the Mirages are beyond their best as of now and JF17 is payload limited.
Why cant the same be achieved with ground to ground missiles or air to ground missiles. The ballistic missile ranges start from 70 km to above 2500 km. The CM range is 700 km while ALCM range is 350 km or above 500 km. All these ranges can increase in future versions or new model of missiles.

There are advancements in modern BVR air to air missiles which would make BVR combat very deadly and interesting in subcontinent. The same can be done for Air to ground missiles.

In what circumstances would it be completely necessary to penetrate 1000s of km of Indian airspace to drop payload ?
 

Signalian

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The reason being, it is much simpler to solve for attacking fixed or moving targets on the ground vs having to fight an air battle with autonomous drones. Clearly, the air-air theatre in any Indo-Pak wars will be fairly close to the border on the Indian side, and mostly in Pakistan's airspace. The benefit of autonomous jets of course for longer range strikes is that we will not be risking pilots in riskier operations deeper into enemy territory or against heavily defended targets such as C4 nodes. Now if you also include EW capability inhere, a lot of which is already automated to reduce pilot workloads and will get better and more targeted with AI.
A twin seater 5th gen aircraft data linked with UCAV and an AWACS. The UCAV could be carrying 2-4 air to ground missiles or air to air missiles (unsure) or if its a suicide drone or EW drone or decoy drone. The 5th gen aircraft's avionics could have capability to handle multiple drones of different types carrying different armament. AWACs constantly sends mission profile, updates etc to 5th gen aircraft. Although the avionics of 5th gen aircraft should be powerful enough to combat enemy's heavy EW capability to jam drones, an EW drone forms part of the strike element to protect against enemy EW as redundant element especially if the 5th gen aircraft fails to provide cover and data link goes to BVR mode through sat coverage.
 

arjunk

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Why cant the same be achieved with ground to ground missiles or air to ground missiles. The ballistic missile ranges start from 70 km to above 2500 km. The CM range is 700 km while ALCM range is 350 km or above 500 km. All these ranges can increase in future versions or new model of missiles.

There are advancements in modern BVR air to air missiles which would make BVR combat very deadly and interesting in subcontinent. The same can be done for Air to ground missiles.

In what circumstances would it be completely necessary to penetrate 1000s of km of Indian airspace to drop payload ?
A BM/CM might see it as a nuke.
 

araz

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Sir what you are suggesting is basically saying wait for ten years at least. Which we simply can't afford to do. We need fighter jets and we need them now. And what I am hearing is that J-10 C is a done deal.
Why? What is the urgent need that we cannot wait 5 years.
A
 

Mentee

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Other than AESA and super cruise, everything else is pretty much covered by Pakistan's F16 fleet.

F16 operated by paf are nothing but an extension of stunted weaponry provided to the third world. It could run circles around the globe but not the Pakistani ones . Do they've aesa? Can fire cruise misslies of any sort ? Operate inside india? then what good such weapon brings to the table other than jobs for the us tax payer ?


Sorry can let the topgun nostalgia ruin the national security .
 

Basel

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Why cant the same be achieved with ground to ground missiles or air to ground missiles. The ballistic missile ranges start from 70 km to above 2500 km. The CM range is 700 km while ALCM range is 350 km or above 500 km. All these ranges can increase in future versions or new model of missiles.

There are advancements in modern BVR air to air missiles which would make BVR combat very deadly and interesting in subcontinent. The same can be done for Air to ground missiles.

In what circumstances would it be completely necessary to penetrate 1000s of km of Indian airspace to drop payload ?
For that we need Hypersonic CMs with range 300km to at least 1000km, which will be very potent threat to enemy
 
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It won't be years Sir. We would receive them really soon. Also for more F-16 money is not the issue, USA policies are right now. J-10 C are coming. All things are pointing towards it.

This holy prediction has been posted by now by me. In fact until few months back I was denying this news. I got only confirmed when this very forum on their twitter and facebook account posted J-10 C picture and posted the picture coming soon. Also few other very credible started saying it.
Jus like your Su-35 holly prediction few years back???
 

That Guy

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Yes Sir you're right but remember sir in Musharraf era deal was done and Parliament was approved the purchase of 36 j10A I think in 2007-8 but I assume PAF wasn't satisfied with the performance of j-10A that's why that deal was not went through
Pakistan was hit with a political crisis, followed by 5 years of massive theft and corruption of PPP, which led to a massive financial crisis within Pakistan, nearly bankrupting the nation.

Pakiatan still hasn't recovered.
It won't be years Sir. We would receive them really soon. Also for more F-16 money is not the issue, USA policies are right now. J-10 C are coming. All things are pointing towards it.

This holy prediction has been posted by now by me. In fact until few months back I was denying this news. I got only confirmed when this very forum on their twitter and facebook account posted J-10 C picture and posted the picture coming soon. Also few other very credible started saying it.
You've said money isn't the issue for multiple failed or delayed projects so far, but money has always been the issue. For the size of Pakistan's army, nazi and air force, all three are severely underfunded, because Pakistan can't afford to spend extra money on anything other than its economy.
 

That Guy

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F16 operated by paf are nothing but an extension of stunted weaponry provided to the third world. It could run circles around the globe but not the Pakistani ones . Do they've aesa? Can fire cruise misslies of any sort ? Operate inside india? then what good such weapon brings to the table other than jobs for the us tax payer ?


Sorry can let the topgun nostalgia ruin the national security .
These points have already been addressed in other threads, so I won't repeat them.

Whether stunted or not, India fears Pakistan's f-16 fleet for a very good reason. They have nothing to truly counter it, other than the Su-30mkis which are stupidly expensive to operate, with no guarantees of victory, and India's new Rafales, which India doesn't have enough of, and is finding it hard to justify buying more.
 

That Guy

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Why do you think they are finding it hard to justify ??
The Rafale being sold to India are over priced, and considering the current controversy that Modi is wrapped in currently, buying more over priced Rafales will just become ammunition for the opposition. The opposition may end up accusing him of corrupt and taking bribes from Dassault, which would end up with a long investigation, causing an international relations nightmare for Modi. Even if it turns out that Modi is innocent, the damage will already be done.

Modi can't afford even more problems on top of the farmers protests, and the current economic problems due to covid (and his own incompetence).
 

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