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New fighter for PAF Doctrine?

Zarvan

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To be honest all of know us here that PAF wants the f16 (subsidized or used only) but may settle on j10 in addition to jf17.

Nothing else is available, nor is PAF interested in anything that it cant procure in numbers or will be able to operate efficiently .(thus ruling out russian and european options)
Personally I think Pakistan will never rule out European or Russian options. Only thing which is resulting in for us not going for them is that Chinese are getting better in technology by every passing month. Soon they would be matching Europe and Russia both. In my humble opinion our way forward is getting J-10 C and latest version of J-16 from China. Produce more JF-17 than what was originally decided, and if we can get three squadrons of F-16 block 72 that would be on cherry on top.
 

TNT

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Most of this and other such threads are filled with fanboy fantasies. Can u guys please be realistic and discuss within the confines of reality and not fiction. Some guys here suggesting gripen with meteor as if its available in ur nearest shop. Americans are not allowing engines for helicopters and u ppl think we ll get gripens? And meteor? That's laughable. Do u guys think france and Europe will give us top of the line weapons even if we somehow manage the money?? Do u guys live in a dream world or what? Some demanding F16 block 70s as if they are just born and dont know the past. ThankGod the guys at PAF always remain in real world and plan accordingly.
We have a severe shortage of medium weight fighters, we just have maybe 50 to 60 F16 battle ready at a given time, most of them MLUs which are not latest and upto date. We need a powerful medium weight that can complement F16 and take its role in time of need and given current circumstances, the ONLY best option is J10c. I will not be surprised if PAF goes for it and infact will be a great choice. It will have a nice combination with JF17 and a boost for navy as well. We also have to see that china uses J10s in large numbers and if we use it too, it gives us good interoperability with PLAAF and we will keep improving them as PLAAF keeps improving it.
 

batmannow

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No need to have TVC for J-10C, because you can't beat SRAAM/BVR relying agility/maneuverability, because SRAAM/BVR have the agility and maneuverability of 90-50Gs respectively whereas your best fighter jets equipped latest TVC tech can sustain barely 11G at best, because of human limitations, and TVC is more maintenance prone than fixed nozzles, look at the IAF MKI , they have lots of problems to maintaining MKI's engines (AL-31FP TVC engines)
No mkis of India has TVC , they are dying to get upgrades "SUPER FLANKER" from Russia, TVC is new gadget from 5th gen tech and that's why all front line 5th gen fighters from RAPPTOR to SU35, MIG 35, SU57s, F35s, J20s, some of New gen Chinese J15, all have that capability!
What you think all of these countries are crazy to include this capability in thier fighter jets?
No, PAF is on its path to 5th gen which is still 15 years short but still getting a airframe capable of TVC is much needed, PAF has kick out that decade old nothing better then F16s, thinking out of its tanks.
While adopting, new path, new plans, new tech, is the only way to survive in growing enemy strength!
And new fighter doctrine is bassed on it and that's why AM was pointing on it!!
Don't know if the Russians will allow it.
They are dying to allow, and want to see PAF using thier high tech and let IAF realise thier stupidnes and bias towards russian equipment!
But for that, we need a very flexible, dedicated, negotiating team which we are lacking since, past trump days, we were trying to become good boys and we kept getting kick with a sentence DO MORE since past decades, while lossing kashmir?
MIG 35 suits us, as it's new engines and other tech can benefit our future JF BLK 4 with a relaible TVC engines from MIG35s!
I can bet my life, in PAF ace hands all of these RUSSIAN new tech beasts, will become unmatchable for IAF or even some other gulf states who are dying for F35s, with 70 odd years of super experiences with western fighter jets and thier plans makes PAF with Russian high tech gadgets can become unstopable for a long long time?
PAF needs a stop gap solution which also brings it future solutions and I think, for that Russia is far more reliable partner
Most of this and other such threads are filled with fanboy fantasies. Can u guys please be realistic and discuss within the confines of reality and not fiction. Some guys here suggesting gripen with meteor as if its available in ur nearest shop. Americans are not allowing engines for helicopters and u ppl think we ll get gripens? And meteor? That's laughable. Do u guys think france and Europe will give us top of the line weapons even if we somehow manage the money?? Do u guys live in a dream world or what? Some demanding F16 block 70s as if they are just born and dont know the past. ThankGod the guys at PAF always remain in real world and plan accordingly.
We have a severe shortage of medium weight fighters, we just have maybe 50 to 60 F16 battle ready at a given time, most of them MLUs which are not latest and upto date. We need a powerful medium weight that can complement F16 and take its role in time of need and given current circumstances, the ONLY best option is J10c. I will not be surprised if PAF goes for it and infact will be a great choice. It will have a nice combination with JF17 and a boost for navy as well. We also have to see that china uses J10s in large numbers and if we use it too, it gives us good interoperability with PLAAF and we will keep improving them as PLAAF keeps improving it.
Yes that's the reality, and PAF must get whatever it can to have new airframes either Chinese flankers or J10s and work it's way closer towards Russia!
Actully must of these fan boys and thier families are those who took a lot of money from pak and settled down in the west so thier tilt is always there they are ready to accept anyone as thier masters if they are having good bucks in thier wallets!
France is one of the most biased and racsist countries which has long gruge towards Muslims no matter what we think and become so called Civillized and keep getting humiliation, France and other EU countries won't be giving us even a screw for our jets, this is the best time we should realise and move forward
Personally I think Pakistan will never rule out European or Russian options. Only thing which is resulting in for us not going for them is that Chinese are getting better in technology by every passing month. Soon they would be matching Europe and Russia both. In my humble opinion our way forward is getting J-10 C and latest version of J-16 from China. Produce more JF-17 than what was originally decided, and if we can get three squadrons of F-16 block 72 that would be on cherry on top.
Sure USA has offered us, a plastic model of F16s BLK 172 if we accept Israel, but then they ill take over our security and we have to give up everything are you ready for that????
 
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ziaulislam

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No mkis of India has TVC , they are dying to get upgrades "SUPER FLANKER" from Russia, TVC is new gadget from 5th gen tech and that's why all front line 5th gen fighters from RAPPTOR to SU35, MIG 35, SU57s, F35s, J20s, some of New gen Chinese J15, all have that capability!
What you think all of these countries are crazy to include this capability in thier fighter jets?
No, PAF is on its path to 5th gen which is still 15 years short but still getting a airframe capable of TVC is much needed, PAF has kick out that decade old nothing better then F16s, thinking out of its tanks.
While adopting, new path, new plans, new tech, is the only way to survive in growing enemy strength!
And new fighter doctrine is bassed on it and that's why AM was pointing on it!!

They are dying to allow, and want to see PAF using thier high tech and let IAF realise thier stupidnes and bias towards russian equipment!
But for that, we need a very flexible, dedicated, negotiating team which we are lacking since, past trump days, we were trying to become good boys and we kept getting kick with a sentence DO MORE since past decades, while lossing kashmir?
MIG 35 suits us, as it's new engines and other tech can benefit our future JF BLK 4 with a relaible TVC engines from MIG35s!
I can bet my life, in PAF ace hands all of these RUSSIAN new tech beasts, will become unmatchable for IAF or even some other gulf states who are dying for F35s, with 70 odd years of super experiences with western fighter jets and thier plans makes PAF with Russian high tech gadgets can become unstopable for a long long time?
PAF needs a stop gap solution which also brings it future solutions and I think, for that Russia is far more reliable partner

Yes that's the reality, and PAF must get whatever it can to have new airframes either Chinese flankers or J10s and work it's way closer towards Russia!
Actully must of these fan boys and thier families are those who took a lot of money from pak and settled down in the west so thier tilt is always there they are ready to accept anyone as thier masters if they are having good bucks in thier wallets!
France is one of the most biased and racsist countries which has long gruge towards Muslims no matter what we think and become so called Civillized and keep getting humiliation, France and other EU countries won't be giving us even a screw for our jets, this is the best time we should realise and move forward

Sure USA has offered us, a plastic model of F16s BLK 172 if we accept Israel, but then they ill take over our security and we have to give up everything are you ready for that????
Russain systms are out simply because they dont allow customization and their avionics are not upto par
Personally I think Pakistan will never rule out European or Russian options. Only thing which is resulting in for us not going for them is that Chinese are getting better in technology by every passing month. Soon they would be matching Europe and Russia both. In my humble opinion our way forward is getting J-10 C and latest version of J-16 from China. Produce more JF-17 than what was originally decided, and if we can get three squadrons of F-16 block 72 that would be on cherry on top.
European TOO expensive
36 aircrafts for 9b? I doubt PAF will even think about it

Russians wont allow customization while china (& pakistan) probably doesnt want to irk russia on flanker clone

So its just f16 or j10

J31 is not mature enough for PAF to risk it
 

Glaiviator

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I only can laugh on your tiny knowledge about Russian tech, with whole PLAAF using customizing, upgrading russian tech, i mean which world you are living in?
Evn with JF17s running on russian RD93 and bieng modified makes ur knowledge laughable?
It seems, you know nothing about russian tech!
With all of your so called great Arab friends bowing down to zionst mafia, u ill not even can get a 3rd class poster of any F16s in the future!
With used J10s are fast option which still PAF not ready because many of them are on Chinese engines and are the only ones in offering, PAF has to go mother Russia eith you like it or not!
He's not wrong, while the Russians are clearly ahead when it comes to Engine technology, but when it comes to fighter jets Radar, Avionics, electronics and missiles, the Chinese and West are clearly ahead. Even the Indians who are Russia's biggest customer, replaced the Russians Avionics with French and EW suite with Israeli, simply because they were better.
 
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RAPPTOR to SU35, MIG 35, SU57s, F35s, J20s
Can you tell me please su35 and MIG 35 are considered as 5th gen jets???? J20 and MIG 35 have no TVC currently

And MKI have it main defense against BVR and SRAAMA IS ELECTRONIC WARFARE SYSTEM NOT AGILITY AND MANEUVERABILITY

And upcoming 6h gen jets will have no TVC engines
 

52051

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AESA radar is the main thing the J-10C is gonna bring to the PAF, much harder to Jam than mechanical radars. This is important since the Rafale has a really good EW suite.
More than that, the AESA radar on J-10c is the second generation AESA radar China developed, the radar itself has strong EW combat capability, this allow them dominate PLAAF's SU-35 easily, and J-10c's much smaller RCS allow them to win the most recent PLAAF's golden-helmet competition, defeating J-16 with more powerful radar.
 

batmannow

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Can you tell me please su35 and MIG 35 are considered as 5th gen jets???? J20 and MIG 35 have no TVC currently

And MKI have it main defense against BVR and SRAAMA IS ELECTRONIC WARFARE SYSTEM NOT AGILITY AND MANEUVERABILITY

And upcoming 6h gen jets will have no TVC engines
Here comes J20 with TVC, for others google it or go to russian militray fourms but make your knowledge to a level where you know the real updates, just relying on PDF won't take you anywhere itself as it's been set on agenda based info!
Leave MIG 35s and SU35s right now all of russian airforce fleets SU30s been upgraded with TVC! 😜
While who told u 6th gen fighters won't have TVC?????
He's not wrong, while the Russians are clearly ahead when it comes to Engine technology, but when it comes to fighter jets Radar, Avionics, electronics and missiles, the Chinese and West are clearly ahead. Even the Indians who are Russia's biggest customer, replaced the Russians Avionics with French and EW suite with Israeli, simply because they were better.
If chinese were so ahead of avionics, and other EW systems then why, China brought SU35s????? 😉
Actully, it's all russian tech support, to China which China is learning, in reality from S400s to major fighter aircrafts Russia stands far ahead then China, only thing China is ahead is of its mass production capability, which makes a lot of things easier nd cheap to produce!
For Russia all is fine, they earn from all of it!
 
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mingle

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Russain systms are out simply because they dont allow customization and their avionics are not upto par

European TOO expensive
36 aircrafts for 9b? I doubt PAF will even think about it

Russians wont allow customization while china (& pakistan) probably doesnt want to irk russia on flanker clone

So its just f16 or j10

J31 is not mature enough for PAF to risk it
Buzz is about J10 means PAF is not interested in further F16s if that is yes then PAF should look replacement of MLU F16s next 5 to 7 yrs since they getting obsolete tech wise or try to upgrade Atleast current fleet to V standards and further life enhancement it will also worth to see either these new J10s replace current Sqdn or form a new one
 

LKJ86

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Here comes J20 with TVC, for others google it or go to russian militray fourms but make your knowledge to a level where you know the real updates, just relying on PDF won't take you anywhere itself as it's been set on agenda based info!
Leave MIG 35s and SU35s right now all of russian airforce fleets SU30s been upgraded with TVC! 😜
While who told u 6th gen fighters won't have TVC?????
The latest J-20 are equipped with WS-10 engines without TVC. There is no so-called J-20B yet.
In 5th-generation fighters now, only F-22 and Su-57 have TVC engines.
 

Tariq Habib Afridi

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The latest J-20 are equipped with WS-10 engines without TVC. There is no so-called J-20B yet.
In 5th-generation fighters now, only F-22 and Su-57 have TVC engines.
I have read somewhere that the F-22 TVC also helps reducing the aircraft RCS? the is it true that TVC reduces the RCS of aircraft?
 
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Here comes J20 with TVC, for others google it or go to russian militray fourms but make your knowledge to a level where you know the real updates, just relying on PDF won't take you anywhere itself as it's been set on agenda based info!
Leave MIG 35s and SU35s right now all of russian airforce fleets SU30s been upgraded with TV
J-20 will have when WS-15 will incorporate currently J-20 have fixed nozzles like al-31 and ws-10 and we are yet to se J-20 has TVC with WS-10 and currently very few J-20 is equipped ws-10

And future air to air wars will be fought in BVR arena SRAAM and guns will be last ditch weapons so in my opinion TVC will be not use in 6th gen jets
 

LKJ86

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And future air to air wars will be fought in BVR arena SRAAM and guns will be last ditch weapons so in my opinion TVC will be not use in 6th gen jets
Quite the reverse.

J-20 will have when WS-15 will incorporate currently J-20 have fixed nozzles like al-31 and ws-10 and we are yet to se J-20 has TVC with WS-10 and currently very few J-20 is equipped ws-10
To Chinese military information, there is always a few years lag between the reality and what we know through public channels.
 
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monitor

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Pakistans option left to J-10C and retired Eurofighter Typhoon trance two or three version if budget permit before getting hands on home grown AZAM or other fifth generations fighters.
 
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