New fighter for PAF Doctrine?

[Readerdefence]

Plesae not again:

Yes (IMO the only option)
NO ... long dead, never in production and the A is out of production, in PLAAF service close to being retired
NO ... only when the J-35 is ready (again, there is no J-31 yet)

Hi Deino just a little detour how Chinese are maintaining jH7/A/B versions I mean about engine & components including shell etc do they have fully rebuild line for these aircrafts & how long usually it will take to retire these aircrafts now I’m not arguing wit you about selling these to Pakistan but will it not be in China own interest to move this kind of fighter assembly line or whatever paraphernalia to Pakistan instead of decommissioning of it
just out of the box I’m asking is it worth to just dismantle related to this fighter

thank you

 

[LKJ86]

Hi Deino just a little detour how Chinese are maintaining jH7/A/B versions I mean about engine & components including shell etc do they have fully rebuild line for these aircrafts & how long usually it will take to retire these aircrafts now I’m not arguing wit you about selling these to Pakistan but will it not be in China own interest to move this kind of fighter assembly line or whatever paraphernalia to Pakistan instead of decommissioning of it
just out of the box I’m asking is it worth to just dismantle related to this fighter

thank you

The manufacturer of JH-7/A is XAC that also produces Y-20, H-6, and H-20 (in future).

 

[Readerdefence]

The manufacturer of JH-7/A is XAC that also produces Y-20, H-6, and H-20 (in future).

Hi thanks for your information but as I’m asking about what will happen with the current line of manufacturing these JH7 will those lines start churning something new or will be dismantled completely and approximately how long China will retain JH7 in their fleet
once again thank you for your reply

 

[Mujtaba hassan]

Su-35 has PESA (Passive Electronically Scanned Array) radar.

On the flip side, the MiG-35 has a the option of having AESA (Phazotron Zhuk-A/AE).

so iam correct u mean

 

[Deino]

Hi Deino just a little detour how Chinese are maintaining jH7/A/B versions I mean about engine & components including shell etc do they have fully rebuild line for these aircrafts & how long usually it will take to retire these aircrafts now I’m not arguing wit you about selling these to Pakistan but will it not be in China own interest to move this kind of fighter assembly line or whatever paraphernalia to Pakistan instead of decommissioning of it
just out of the box I’m asking is it worth to just dismantle related to this fighter

thank you

Hi thanks for your information but as I’m asking about what will happen with the current line of manufacturing these JH7 will those lines start churning something new or will be dismantled completely and approximately how long China will retain JH7 in their fleet
once again thank you for your reply

Sorry for the late reply and I fear I cannot answer your question in the way you asked first of all since I - and I'm not sure if anyone outside the PLAAF, AVIC/XAC or the military has such information on "what will happen with the current line of manufacturing" but l'll try my best on step by step:

1. do they have fully rebuild line for these aircrafts & how long usually it will take to retire these aircrafts now?

I'm not sure if I fully understand your question, bu sure they have a full set of manufacturing & maintenance facilities to manufacture the necesary replacement parts until the end of their service life, but that does not mean the production line is still on. Just look on other types, let's say the European Tornado: Surely parts are build to maintain these aircraft even if its production line has been dismantled and superseded by the one for the Typhoon. How long China will still use is is another question... surely some years to come and another argument that they then will be even more outdated.

2. will it not be in China own interest to move this kind of fighter assembly line or whatever paraphernalia to Pakistan instead of decommissioning of it?

NO. Why shall anyone sell such an expensive facility for free (like some certain members claim) or for cheep when they can eventually reuse it for other types? Even more I don't think that simply transferring the production line would enable Pakistan to build that aircraft and why should China do so?

3 what will happen with the current line of manufacturing these JH7?

IMO it will - or already is - dismantled, what can be reused will be used and otherwise XAC builds so many other types that they surely can re-use the given space in the facility.

4. will those lines start churning something new or will be dismantled completely ...?

IMO dismantled completely. There is no need to produce more JH-7s and as I know since years none is being built anymore.

5. ... and approximately how long China will retain JH7 in their fleet?

That is difficult to say and depends on several factors I don't know: what's the remaining service live? Can and will they receive an MLU or will they be replaced completely? How many J-16s and more modern types can be produced and what are the PLAAF's priorities?

IMO they will retain them for a few years to come, maybe update certain systems and add certain capabilities, maybe they will be transferred to other second-line units but I'm fully convinced that any such ideas like claimed here, China should simply give it to Pakistan (either the production line or retired PLAAF aircraft) will not happen, regardless what some senior members wish and also regardless such an idea maybe was.

Best,
Deino

 

[Readerdefence]

Sorry for the late reply and I fear I cannot answer your question in the way you asked first of all since I - and I'm not sure if anyone outside the PLAAF, AVIC/XAC or the military has such information on "what will happen with the current line of manufacturing" but l'll try my best on step by step:




I'm not sure if I fully understand your question, bu sure they have a full set of manufacturing & maintenance facilities to manufacture the necesary replacement parts until the end of their service life, but that does not mean the production line is still on. Just look on other types, let's say the European Tornado: Surely parts are build to maintain these aircraft even if its production line has been dismantled and superseded by the one for the Typhoon. How long China will still use is is another question... surely some years to come and another argument that they then will be even more outdated.



NO. Why shall anyone sell such an expensive facility for free (like some certain members claim) or for cheep when they can eventually reuse it for other types? Even more I don't think that simply transferring the production line would enable Pakistan to build that aircraft and why should China do so?



IMO it will - or already is - dismantled, what can be reused will be used and otherwise XAC builds so many other types that they surely can re-use the given space in the facility.



IMO dismantled completely. There is no need to produce more JH-7s and as I know since years none is being built anymore.



That is difficult to say and depends on several factors I don't know: what's the remaining service live? Can and will they receive an MLU or will they be replaced completely? How many J-16s and more modern types can be produced and what are the PLAAF's priorities?

IMO they will retain them for a few years to come, maybe update certain systems and add certain capabilities, maybe they will be transferred to other second-line units but I'm fully convinced that any such ideas like claimed here, China should simply give it to Pakistan (either the production line or retired PLAAF aircraft) will not happen, regardless what some senior members wish and also regardless such an idea maybe was.

Best,
Deino

Hi Deino thanks for your very detailed answers one by one according to my Qs
thank you

 

[White and Green with M/S]

Then these aircraft:
J-10
JH-7B
J-31

J-10C= best option
JH-7B mainly ground attacker, anti ship missions with limited agility/maneuverability, Not a true multirole jets like F-16/J-10 are

J-31 in development, and its is evolving into PLAAN (Naval) J-35 wait a year or 2 than we will see J-35's first flight very soon

And what about MIG-35 its cheaper than J-10C and has same capability as J-10C

 

[Ghessan]

J-10C= best option
JH-7B mainly ground attacker, anti ship missions with limited agility/maneuverability, Not a true multirole jets like F-16/J-10 are

J-31 in development, and its is evolving into PLAAN (Naval) J-35 wait a year or 2 than we will see J-35's first flight very soon

And what about MIG-35 its cheaper than J-10C and has same capability as J-10C

you need to study JH7 profile it is very capable dedicated strike plane

no rule a plane is acquired being multirole. every plane has an environment and mission to take on hence procurement

we need a plane like JH7

 

[Deino]

you need to study JH7 profile it is very capable dedicated strike plane

no rule a plane is acquired being multirole. every plane has an environment and mission to take on hence procurement

we need a plane like JH7

But again: THe JH-7 is no option. I really don't know what's so difficult to understand on this point.

Yes, it is - IMO more it WAS - or would have been a perfect choice, but it is no viable option; at least none of my arguments I repeated so often was ever replied by a reasonable argument. Most of the time I get "you are illiterate and stupid, you have no right to post and China delivers everything as long as we want it!"

That at least IMO no reason and even less a decent way to argue in a discussion.

Again:

- JH-7B is non-existent, it was a prototype only and later canceled; Period
- JH-7A is long out of production, dated and therefore in PLAAF close to being retired.
- as such getting second hand JH-7As in the only realistic option if such a deal could be done and then Pakistan needs to pay for an expensive MLU or must retain them as dated types.
- also it would add yet another chain of logistics ... and that all for let's say 36 aircraft?? All this with new type of engine, new avionics, ...?? IMO that surely possible, but not a viable option.

Again, I'm always eager to discuss, I'm open for arguments and more than happy to be corrected, but to turn down anything only with "you are illiterate and stupid, you have no right to post and China delivers everything as long as we want it!" is not a mature discussion.

 

[Ghessan]

But again: THe JH-7 is no option. I really don't know what's so difficult to understand on this point.

Yes, it is - IMO more it WAS - or would have been a perfect choice, but it is no viable option; at least none of my arguments I repeated so often was ever replied by a reasonable argument. Most of the time I get "you are illiterate and stupid, you have no right to post and China delivers everything as long as we want it!"

That at least IMO no reason and even less a decent way to argue in a discussion.

Again:

- JH-7B is non-existent, it was a prototype only and later canceled; Period
- JH-7A is long out of production, dated and therefore in PLAAF close to being retired.
- as such getting second hand JH-7As in the only realistic option if such a deal could be done and then Pakistan needs to pay for an expensive MLU or must retain them as dated types.
- also it would add yet another chain of logistics ... and that all for let's say 36 aircraft?? All this with new type of engine, new avionics, ...?? IMO that surely possible, but not a viable option.

Again, I'm always eager to discuss, I'm open for arguments and more than happy to be corrected, but to turn down anything only with "you are illiterate and stupid, you have no right to post and China delivers everything as long as we want it!" is not a mature discussion.

nowhere did i say it being an option
nor did i argue upon this.

and yes i have seen many a times you have argued this craft being not an option, same way everybody argue on their own observations.

you must be tired of it, take a break.

 

[Deino]

nowhere did i say it being an option
nor did i argue upon this.

and yes i have seen many a times you have argued this craft being not an option, same way everybody argue on their own observations.

you must be tired of it, take a break.

You surely noticed that my reply and argument was not against you but aimed to a certain member.

My point - and here in fact also to your post - again, there is no reason given: It all depends on opinion but opinions of forumers are barely a reason for the PAF to get that bird nor to solve any of my questions.

There I'm indeed tired that some here in this forum always post opinion vs. another opinion and right away think their opinion means it could be done that way.

For example my opinion is there should be peace between India and Pakistan, but does this opinion solve any of the serious issues? NO, and in the same way an opinion, the JH-7 might be the perfect plane for the PAF none of the questions is answered.

That's why I'm indeed tired ... but hey, I'm a teacher and in real live I cannot get exhausted or tired to argue again and again regardless how often I already have heard a certain argument I rate un-logic or even stupid.

Best and take care.,

 

[White and Green with M/S]

you need to study JH7 profile it is very capable dedicated strike plane

no rule a plane is acquired being multirole. every plane has an environment and mission to take on hence procurement

we need a plane like JH7

Than why not we buy more capable then JH7 J-16 ???

 

[Glaiviator]

Than why not we buy more capable then JH7 J-16 ???

I don't think the J-16 is available for export because of Russia, it's also probably much more expensive. When the time comes to replace the Mirages, then I think PAF will explore strike fighters of this type.

 

[Trailer23]

My God.

We've been going 'round in circles (for Months).

I swear, there hasn't been a single jet that hasnt been discussed multiple times (repeatedly) - and that too on every alternate page.

Personally, everything meaningful that needed to be discussed - has already been-- in depth.

Now the topic itself is a dead-stick which has nothing further to add.

We can all re-visit if something concrete is on the horizon, but in the meantine @The Eagle - let's shut it down.

 

[Marker]

My God.

We've been going 'round in circles (for Months).

I swear, there hasn't been a single jet that hasnt been discussed multiple times (repeatedly) - and that too on every alternate page.

Personally, everything meaningful that needed to be discussed - has already been-- in depth.

Now the topic itself is a dead-stick which has nothing further to add.

We can all re-visit if something concrete is on the horizon, but in the meantine @The Eagle - let's shut it down.

In my opinion. we may keep this thread active, but amend the title...

My humble suggestion is "New air platforms for PAF doctrine".