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New fighter for PAF Doctrine?

MM_Haider

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Gripen is the most viable option if y'all strictly considering European jets since France wouldn't sell you Rafales while EFT is significantly expensive and comes with the headaches of dealing with multiple countries
what bullshit... why wouldn't France sell Rafale to us? they just need money to keep afloat its dying economy..
 

Signalian

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A wise man once said never put your eggs in one basket. Same thing happened when India relied heavily in Russian Suki MKIs and migs that eventually left them red faced on Feb 27th mis adventure against Pakistan.

With Rafaels induction equation has significantly changed in India's favor as if they ever decide to do same misadventures in future then this time they have strong possibility to take couple of our F-16s and JF-17s down. And now a days it is enough to fuel prapoganda against Pakistan and leave moral of Pakistan Airforce down for next few decades to come. No doubt in capabilities of JF-17 block 3 with AESA & PL 15 equipped but this hardware yet to be battle tested and we cannot afford experiments against an enemy who is very cunning like a Hyena and always looking for opponents weakness before attacking. We need to save our already bare minimum quantity of F-16s C and D Block 52. If we ever loose some of them along with JF 17's it will not only put the morale of Airforce to rock bottom but also disturb plans to focus on project AZM and focus of JF-17s future blocks and current block 3 improvements. It can also hurt JF-17 potential export orders.

To plan long term we need short term security while increasing our deterance by increasing current our attack vectors. We must acquire at least one squadron of European 4.5 generation fighters Gripen or Euro fighter tycoons (both can be used with same Metoar missiles. Since India acquired Rafaels and now they are looking to modify to carry nuclear warheads that gives Pakistan a strong case to make a small order of European fighters for nuclear deterrence needs. Additionally Pakistan should seek on emergency basis atleast one squadron of J-10 C to equip our Airforce with multiple attack vectors to challenge enemy with fire with fire.

Quaid Azam also once said Pakistan must have a strong Airforce as it counts very heavyily in nations security and is a must for Pakistan's future


Please contribute with positive Patriots comments please, no trolling as well please. Let's discuss ...
This topic is the result of weapons race started by India. Kudos to those who fall to Indian agenda believing only a 'certain' type of weapon can bring victory.
 

Metal 0-1

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I agree F-17 Blk 3 is not solution to everything.

We need to stop simpimg for JF-17. It have no doubt capabilities like F-18C but not the wieght carriying capacity or T/W ratio need A2A combats.

Chinese Avionics and Russian engine are not that good as compared to Western ones.

US will sell F-16s if we pay them. Any European country will sell us if we are willing to pay them the amount.

J-10C again is not the answer.

Best suitable jet for Pakistan is Gripen.....
 

Yaseen1

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if china is able to stop india with these jets then we can also do this ,western jets require money which will be difficult for us as our economy is in poor shape
I agree F-17 Blk 3 is not solution to everything.

We need to stop simpimg for JF-17. It have no doubt capabilities like F-18C but not the wieght carriying capacity or T/W ratio need A2A combats.

Chinese Avionics and Russian engine are not that good as compared to Western ones.

US will sell F-16s if we pay them. Any European country will sell us if we are willing to pay them the amount.

J-10C again is not the answer.

Best suitable jet for Pakistan is Gripen.....
 

Yasser76

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Every month or so we have this almost constant debate when actually the decision was made years ago during start of ACM's Aman's tenure.

Back then 5-6 years ago we knew that India would select a 4th Gen fighter either through the MMRCA deal or whatever acronym they had for it, or buy gov to gov. PAF knew we could well face a situation where by now India could have possible 114 Eurofighters or Rafales (luckily only turned out to be 36). We knew these could out class our F-16s/JF-17s (even Block III).

Decision was made that we could get a limited number of 4th Gen ourselves (either same type of European planes or J-10C), but that would simply put us on par with India, and not give us an edge. We would in effect lose the advantge the F-16/APG-68/AMRAAM combo has given us. Furthermore we could not hope to match India in numbers. We would have to simply reply on better training. Not a great situation to be in.

Now what I am going to say is not secret, I do not have an "inside track" like others claim to have, it is all open source info.

PAF decided simply to skip 4th Gen. They decided the F-16 fleet and rapid induction of Block III Thunder would be enough to provide a deterrent for some years and we would lose our edge. We instead would go for 5th Gen aircraft that would outclass anything (bar F-35) that Indians could buy. Hence Project Azm.

Now I do not know latest developments of Azm or in fact what type of fighter it will be (Turkish help, FC-31, etc) but what we can be assured of is that we will have a fighter that will be stealth, will have missiles that will outrange anything India had and sensors that will be unrivalled. It could be that we only get 36-72 of these planes but this will be enough to keep the IAF at bay for 20 years, just like 40 F-16s did in the early 80s. PAF will have a tremendous technological and pyscholgical edge over the IAF
 

Trango Towers

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A wise man once said never put your eggs in one basket. Same thing happened when India relied heavily in Russian Suki MKIs and migs that eventually left them red faced on Feb 27th mis adventure against Pakistan.

With Rafaels induction equation has significantly changed in India's favor as if they ever decide to do same misadventures in future then this time they have strong possibility to take couple of our F-16s and JF-17s down. And now a days it is enough to fuel prapoganda against Pakistan and leave moral of Pakistan Airforce down for next few decades to come. No doubt in capabilities of JF-17 block 3 with AESA & PL 15 equipped but this hardware yet to be battle tested and we cannot afford experiments against an enemy who is very cunning like a Hyena and always looking for opponents weakness before attacking. We need to save our already bare minimum quantity of F-16s C and D Block 52. If we ever loose some of them along with JF 17's it will not only put the morale of Airforce to rock bottom but also disturb plans to focus on project AZM and focus of JF-17s future blocks and current block 3 improvements. It can also hurt JF-17 potential export orders.

To plan long term we need short term security while increasing our deterance by increasing current our attack vectors. We must acquire at least one squadron of European 4.5 generation fighters Gripen or Euro fighter tycoons (both can be used with same Metoar missiles. Since India acquired Rafaels and now they are looking to modify to carry nuclear warheads that gives Pakistan a strong case to make a small order of European fighters for nuclear deterrence needs. Additionally Pakistan should seek on emergency basis atleast one squadron of J-10 C to equip our Airforce with multiple attack vectors to challenge enemy with fire with fire.

Quaid Azam also once said Pakistan must have a strong Airforce as it counts very heavyily in nations security and is a must for Pakistan's future


Please contribute with positive Patriots comments please, no trolling as well please. Let's discuss ...
What cobblers..

Can you tell me what airforce were the rafales tested against in air to air combat that our jf17 block 3 will be inferior.
PAF knows what it's doing and has known for some time about the French aircraft and hence has planned for it.
Self made internet experts often panic. Professionals find solutions.
 

Zarvan

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So sad and pathetic... It's like a bunch of kids squabbling over whose seen Santa Claus... Only to realise the jolly fat pedo doesnt actually exist.
Sir fighter jet exists and J 10 has been confirmed by this group also. Nobody is discussing aliens here. So in next few days things would get crystal clear.
 

Darth Vader

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Not really.
5 to 36 seen whats have been happening i wouldn't need to Rush anything.
Even to fully use the capability of these 5 platforms in cohesion with other platforms will take few years.
For 36 i give 5 years minimum in that time Pakistan will have atleast have similar or little higher numbers of thunders block 3 AESA platform operational.
Pakistan doesn't need another similar platform e.g J10 or Gripen , twin einger could will offer something new but than Pakistan will be in same boat as India best fore multiplier for Pakistan only is F16 and Thunder, these can be added and be operational in days.
Project Azm or Chinese 5th Gen bird is the only next viable platform for Pakistan
 

Deino

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Sir fighter jet exists and J 10 has been confirmed by this group also. Nobody is discussing aliens here. So in next few days things would get crystal clear.
Pardon again to contradict: but where is the confirmation? So far I have not seen any conclusive evidence no a proof, all we have are several rumours.

And concerning this "within a few days" was already promised for the PAF/PN J-15s before I went to France in vacation.
 

Enigma SIG

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Pakistan needs a drone swarm. Costing at least 1/10th the price of a manned fighter; you can get your opponent to up his sortie rates into double digits; and that is not a good thing. Remember how PAF used a decoy formation in the southern sector in the Feb engagement. Multiply that by 10 and you'd have the enemy AD lighting up like a Christmas tree. It is the time of asymmetric warfare. Maybe we should start to think like it.
 

Yasser76

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Not really.
5 to 36 seen whats have been happening i wouldn't need to Rush anything.
Even to fully use the capability of these 5 platforms in cohesion with other platforms will take few years.
For 36 i give 5 years minimum in that time Pakistan will have atleast have similar or little higher numbers of thunders block 3 AESA platform operational.
Pakistan doesn't need another similar platform e.g J10 or Gripen , twin einger could will offer something new but than Pakistan will be in same boat as India best fore multiplier for Pakistan only is F16 and Thunder, these can be added and be operational in days.
Project Azm or Chinese 5th Gen bird is the only next viable platform for Pakistan

Absolutely, also very strange the OP of this thread suggested 1 squadron. That is the very definition of a waste of resources.

1 Sqd = 18 planes.

2-3 = Always being repaired or in overhaul
2-3 = Used for conversion traning/weapons employment training
1-2 - Attrition over 3-4 years

Essentially leaving you around 10 planes for the fight.

Of those 10 you can only keep around 4 in the air at anytime.
 

araz

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Flankers for PAF makes no sense to me. PAF can't maintain a heavy fighter in large numbers and flankers in small numbers make even less sense.
The only role where we could feasibly need a flanker would be sea based patrol/warfare. However as mentioned its long loitering time could be used for advantage in A2Arole as well. However the need per se in our current financial condition is not a logical line of thinking. This could all change with better finances.
A
 

Rahil khan

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US will not sell these F16s under any circumstances to Pakistan I'm afraid
Simply resurrect your economy, pay them hard cash like 2 billion$. They will provide us couple of squadrons of new vipers under all circumstances. Few years back when PAF was about to get 8 additional vipers under CSF, Trump administration simply refused by saying that Pakistan must arrange funds by itself. Naturally offer expired itself. Economical revival can create situations out of the blue in next 5 years.
 

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