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Navy Orders 4 More Improved F-22P Frigates.

Penguin

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A CSOC brochure notes that its 2,660 ton displacement 'Conventional Submarine' has a length of 79.5 m, a beam of 8.6 m, maximum speed of 18 kt, a range of 8,000 n miles at 4 kt, and a maximum dive depth of 300 m.

http://www.janes.com/article/68024/...nventional-submarine-with-stirling-engine-aip

AIP (Air Independent Propulsion) system allows them to remains submerged for up to 21 days consecutively without surfacing or snorting.
3 fur da price of 2... The submarines from China are the cheapest with the quality relatively acceptable. China also offered services after purchase, another something extra that the Thai will receive.
https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.wordpress.com/2017/03/25/thailand-buys-three-yuan-class-s26-t/
 

Cool_Soldier

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Still we need to have multi role frigates in handsome number to defend our shores.
Next step would be Destroyers that hopefully will start practically at least after 5 years.
 

truthseeker2010

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A CSOC brochure notes that its 2,660 ton displacement 'Conventional Submarine' has a length of 79.5 m, a beam of 8.6 m, maximum speed of 18 kt, a range of 8,000 n miles at 4 kt, and a maximum dive depth of 300 m.

http://www.janes.com/article/68024/...nventional-submarine-with-stirling-engine-aip

AIP (Air Independent Propulsion) system allows them to remains submerged for up to 21 days consecutively without surfacing or snorting.
3 fur da price of 2... The submarines from China are the cheapest with the quality relatively acceptable. China also offered services after purchase, another something extra that the Thai will receive.
https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.wordpress.com/2017/03/25/thailand-buys-three-yuan-class-s26-t/

How many weapons 18-20?
 

Penguin

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How many weapons 18-20?
Our slightly larger (2650 tons submerged) Dutch Zwaardvis (aka Hai Lung, Taiwan) and Walrus class boats normally take 20 weapons (533 torpedoes and/or Harpoon). It is 28 in the case of the RoCN Hai Lung class. The 3300 ton Collins class (Australia) takes 22 units, this being a mix of Mark 48 Mod 7 CBASS torpedoes and UGM-84C Sub-Harpoon anti-ship missiles OR: 44 Stonefish Mark III mines. The 4000 ton Kilo class (Russia) a mix of 18 torpedoes and Kalibr / Club missiles. It takes 24 mines (but it is not clear to me if this is AND or OR. I suspect OR).

Essentially, if there are 6 tubes, you can expect 6 units (heavyweight torpedoes or encapsulated missiles) in those plus at least 1, usually 2 and sometimes 3 reloads for each tube. A 533mm torpedotube may hold 2 seamines, so that is a trade off.

If the sub has e.g. the German IDAS missile, those go 4 per tube.

A3SM Underwater Vehicle Version: The underwater vehicle version comprises a torpedo-like capsule (the VSM) containing a medium-range (20 km) Mica missile that is tube-launchable at any depth. The capsule is similar to the type developed for submarine-launched SM 39 Exocet anti-ship missiles, a proven system which exists for 35 years now.
http://www.navyrecognition.com/inde...elf-defence-against-threats-from-the-sky.html
 
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Arsalan

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We need destroyers not FRIGATES to arm them with nuclear capable missiles
and then attack america
yuppieeeee

Kuda khofi kr bahi!!!
Our navy is in such bad shape, they have no air cover, the numbers are too low, the surface fleet have less then a half decent air warfare capability and you are talking about nuclear armed missiles? What good will they do?
What we need is:
Submarines.
Multirole platforms with half decent air warfare features.
Heavier frigates with decent air warfare capabilities.
More of these
and then a LACM equipped ship will have some chance to survive the war!!
Before the first three, the LACM option might only come as a compromise on other systems as a power show, no practical value in my opinion.

AIP (Air Independent Propulsion) system allows them to remains submerged for up to 21 days consecutively without surfacing or snorting.
3 fur da price of 2... The submarines from China are the cheapest with the quality relatively acceptable. China also offered services after purchase, another something extra that the Thai will receive.
https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.wordpress.com/2017/03/25/thailand-buys-three-yuan-class-s26-t/
Penguin, this is something i always wanted to ask, now we all know and have heard and talk about AIP giving a submerged endurance without surfacing or snorkeling of around 20 22 days. A submariner told me an actually strange thing about it however. When i mentioned him the time line he laughed it off saying that they allow just 72 to 90 HOURS. Now my first reaction, in fact, only reaction was that he was kidding or may be being stupid (since he was serving on the agosta that was not fitted with AIP at that time) but still want to be sure about it discussing this with you or may be someone who can tell what an actual person who have served on one of those have to say.
 

Bilal Khan (Quwa)

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and then attack america
yuppieeeee

Kuda khofi kr bahi!!!
Our navy is in such bad shape, they have no air cover, the numbers are too low, the surface fleet have less then a half decent air warfare capability and you are talking about nuclear armed missiles? What good will they do?
What we need is:
Submarines.
Multirole platforms with half decent air warfare features.
Heavier frigates with decent air warfare capabilities.
More of these
and then a LACM equipped ship will have some chance to survive the war!!
Before the first three, the LACM option might only come as a compromise on other systems as a power show, no practical value in my opinion.


Penguin, this is something i always wanted to ask, now we all know and have heard and talk about AIP giving a submerged endurance without surfacing or snorkeling of around 20 22 days. A submariner told me an actually strange thing about it however. When i mentioned him the time line he laughed it off saying that they allow just 72 to 90 HOURS. Now my first reaction, in fact, only reaction was that he was kidding or may be being stupid (since he was serving on the agosta that was not fitted with AIP at that time) but still want to be sure about it discussing this with you or may be someone who can tell what an actual person who have served on one of those have to say.
In all likelihood, the submariner was trying to misdirect you. Even if the MESMA AIP is unable to provide much time, he would have kept the accurate figure or even ballpark to himself.
 

Penguin

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Penguin, this is something i always wanted to ask, now we all know and have heard and talk about AIP giving a submerged endurance without surfacing or snorkeling of around 20 22 days. A submariner told me an actually strange thing about it however. When i mentioned him the time line he laughed it off saying that they allow just 72 to 90 HOURS. Now my first reaction, in fact, only reaction was that he was kidding or may be being stupid (since he was serving on the agosta that was not fitted with AIP at that time) but still want to be sure about it discussing this with you or may be someone who can tell what an actual person who have served on one of those have to say.

Good conventional diesel-electric submarines can remain submerged on battery at slow speed for periods on the order of three to five days. AIP lengthens that. Several AIP schemes in development or already in operation can increase slow-speed endurance to as much as three weeks or a month.
At least for the near future, AIP will be valuable primarily as a low-speed, long-endurance adjunct to the under- water performance of conventional submarines. If their distinctive characteristics are exploited by skillful operators, AIP submarines can be used to telling effect for both short- and medium-range missions. AIP dramatically expands the tactical "trade-space" for diesel-electric submarines. If conditions permit, they can transit rapidly on the surface with-out unduly expending the wherewithal for superior underwater performance. Submerged, they can opt for a long, slow, silent patrol that keeps their batteries fully charged and thus capable of powering speed bursts of significant duration. And by carefully husbanding their resources, they can revert again to slow-speed operation and repeat the cycle several times over weeks of submergence.
Meanwhile, staying underwater longer, without snorting, does pose challenges to the boat and crew e.g. provision of breathable fresh air, phychological state etc. much like you would have on a nuclear powered boat. Submarines are limited by food supplies and the endurance of their crews. Fresh water is made by distilling sea water and oxygen is produced by splitting water (H2O) into H2 and O. The H2 is discharged overboard and the O is stored in tanks for future use. CO2 is removed from the air using an Amine-based CO2 scrubber or by using Lithium canisters (old school method that's still used in emergencies). Any extra gasses like CO or H2 (from the batteries) are turned into water vapor by a CO/H2 burner.
OHio class nuclear submarines go on patrols that last an average of seventy to ninety days .... underwater
 

Deidara

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Just to let everyone in on the secret. Because users on PDF frequently advise each other to remove information that they deem should be classified, I wanted to clarify for public good that no member of public is privy to classified military information ever, whatever their 'sources'. Its impossible that anyone will ever post classified information on PDF. Even serving officers of junior ranks posses no information of truly sensitive nature.
I share this tidbit as a hobbist of military science.
 

Arsalan

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Good conventional diesel-electric submarines can remain submerged on battery at slow speed for periods on the order of three to five days. AIP lengthens that. Several AIP schemes in development or already in operation can increase slow-speed endurance to as much as three weeks or a month.
At least for the near future, AIP will be valuable primarily as a low-speed, long-endurance adjunct to the under- water performance of conventional submarines. If their distinctive characteristics are exploited by skillful operators, AIP submarines can be used to telling effect for both short- and medium-range missions. AIP dramatically expands the tactical "trade-space" for diesel-electric submarines. If conditions permit, they can transit rapidly on the surface with-out unduly expending the wherewithal for superior underwater performance. Submerged, they can opt for a long, slow, silent patrol that keeps their batteries fully charged and thus capable of powering speed bursts of significant duration. And by carefully husbanding their resources, they can revert again to slow-speed operation and repeat the cycle several times over weeks of submergence.
Meanwhile, staying underwater longer, without snorting, does pose challenges to the boat and crew e.g. provision of breathable fresh air, phychological state etc. much like you would have on a nuclear powered boat. Submarines are limited by food supplies and the endurance of their crews. Fresh water is made by distilling sea water and oxygen is produced by splitting water (H2O) into H2 and O. The H2 is discharged overboard and the O is stored in tanks for future use. CO2 is removed from the air using an Amine-based CO2 scrubber or by using Lithium canisters (old school method that's still used in emergencies). Any extra gasses like CO or H2 (from the batteries) are turned into water vapor by a CO/H2 burner.
OHio class nuclear submarines go on patrols that last an average of seventy to ninety days .... underwater

Yup, That is exactly what we know and read about. The problem or confusing was when that guy told otherwise. As i said, my my first impression was that he is kidding. The second though that came to my mind was that may be because he is not serving in the AIP boat he do not know all the details (sounds stupid).
Anyway, thanks for confirming this. I understand and agree with the theory you shared. It was the guy with some practical knowledge that confused me (purposely i think) :lol:
 

Penguin

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Just to let everyone in on the secret. Because users on PDF frequently advise each other to remove information that they deem should be classified, I wanted to clarify for public good that no member of public is privy to classified military information ever, whatever their 'sources'. Its impossible that anyone will ever post classified information on PDF. Even serving officers of junior ranks posses no information of truly sensitive nature.
I share this tidbit as a hobbist of military science.
Well, they may be a few people with security clearance at some level or other. But when you get to that level, people are wiser than to post anything significant on a forum.
 
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Deidara

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Well, they may be a few people with security clearance at some level or other. But when you get to that level, they are wiser than to post anything significant on a forum.
Ive come to know that tactical details provide no significant advantage to the enemy and therefore they are not sensitive information. Even if they are leaked, when declared classified, the high commands couldn't care less. But operational details are a different matter altogether and are highly classified and known only to the senior most ranks. Junior officers even with all their clearances have only access to tactical details and the high command is fully prepared for the contingency of them being leaked.
I think Hollywood have blown the clearance thing out of proportion.
 

Penguin

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Ive come to know that tactical details provide no significant advantage to the enemy and therefore they are not sensitive information. Even if they are leaked, when declared classified, the high commands couldn't care less. But operational details are a different matter altogether and are highly classified and known only to the senior most ranks. Junior officers even with all their clearances have only access to tactical details and the high command is fully prepared for the contingency of them being leaked.
I think Hollywood have blown the clearance thing out of proportion.
You are making assumptions about the kinds of personnel that have access to various materials. I would include DoD personnel (often civilians) that are e.g. involved in development or procurement etc. Junior officers have little if any clearance. Varies of course by country.
 

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