• Wednesday, September 18, 2019

My conventional warfare Top 10 rankings.

Discussion in 'Military Forum' started by Ziggy1977, Sep 8, 2019.

  1. Ziggy1977

    Ziggy1977 FULL MEMBER

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    My conventional warfare Top 10 rankings. No Nukes, no SF.

    1. USA
    Joint Command, R&D, Training, Forward bases, combat experience, Huge military spending, annual maneuver exercises from Div down to team levels and so much more. worlds only real Global power. Alliances also are joint command and training. Sheer Size. it a 24 hour full spectrum warfare force. it fights better at night then it does during the day. it Logistical support network is by far it biggest asset.

    Air Fleet (Air Force, Navy, Marine Corp, Army)
    379 Advance Fighters (F35 & F22), 782 Modern Fighters (F18E/F & F15E), 1725 Capable Fighters (F15C/D, F16A-D & F18A-D) = 2886 Fighters
    378 Ground attack Jets (AV-8B & A10C)
    157 Bombers (B1-B, B2 & B52H)
    131 AEW/C2 planes, 134 Satellites, over 5000 UAVs, 358 Fueler planes, 450 Transport planes (Large/Medium).

    Navy/ USCG
    Major Warships
    11 Aircraft Carriers Nuclear (CVN), 12 Amphibious Assault Ships (LHA/LHD), 23 Guided Missile Cruisers (CG), 64 Guided Missile Destroyers (DDG), 11 Littoral Combat Ships (LCS/FFH).

    Minor Warships (Navy, Army, USCG)
    98 large Patrol Ships (PC), 11 Mines warfare Ships (MWS), 37 Amphibious Ships (LCC, LPD, LSD & LST), 315 Landing Crafts (LC), 283 Support ships (Sup)

    Subs
    49 Guided Missle Submarines Nuclear (SSGN), 5 Nuclear Attack Submarines (SSN).

    364 Anti Submarine Warfare Jets & Copters (ASW)


    Ground Forces
    (Army, Marines)
    16 Armored, 13 Stryker/Mech, 24 Infantry, 5 Airborne, 3 Air Assault, 9 Amphibious BCT/Regts= 70 Maneuver BDEs
    16 Field Artillery, 10 MRL, 24 CABs, 8 ADA BDEs = 58 Combat Support BDEs
    56 Logistic, 9 MI, 15 Engineer, 5 Signal, 1 Cyber, 13 MP, 2 CBRN, 12 Medical, 5 Transport, 4 Avn & 2 EOD BDEs = 108 Combat Serves Support BDEs

    2300 Advance (M1A2 Sep) & 1220 Modern (M1A1SA) Tanks = 3520 Tanks
    4595 Infantry Fighting Vehicle (IFV)
    947 SP Field Artillery, 2151 Towed Field Artillery & 640 MLRS/MRL = 3738 Total
    793 Attack Copters (AH64D/E & AH1W/Z)
    1500 Troop transport copters





    2. NATO
    (Without USA)
    (see US comments above. but a little less)

    Air Fleet
    60 Advance Fighters (F35), 551 Modern Fighters (Typhoon, JAS39 & Rafale), 1217 Capable Fighters (F16A-D, F18A-D, Mirage2000 & MiG29) = 1994 Fighters
    239 Ground attack Jets (AV-8B, Tornado & A9.1)
    24 AEW/C2 planes, 38 Satellites, over 1000 UAVs, 59 Fueler planes, 323 Transport planes (Large/Medium).

    Navies

    Major Warships
    1 Aircraft Carriers Nuclear (CVN), 1 Aircraft Carriers (CV), 2 Aircraft Carriers Light (CVH), 9 Amphibious Assault Ships (LHA/LHD), 52 Guided Missile Destroyers (DDG), 2 Destroyers (DD), 99 Guided Missile Frigates (FFG) & 4 Frigates (FF).

    Minor Warships
    30 Corvettes (Cor), 255 large Patrol Ships (PC), 186 Mines warfare Ships (MWS), 27 Amphibious Ships (LPD, LSD, LSM & LST), 188 Landing Crafts (LC), 373 Support ships (Sup)

    Subs
    12 Nuclear Attack Submarines (SSN) & 61 Diesel Attack Submarines (SSK)

    370 Anti Submarine Warfare Jets & Copters (ASW)

    Ground Forces
    (Army & Marines)
    27 Armored, 88 Mech, 49 Infantry, 6 Airborne, 6 Air Assault, 5 Amphibious BDEs = 181 Maneuver BDEs
    25 Field Artillery, 2 MRL, 11 CABs, 12 ADA BDEs = 50 Combat Support BDEs
    23 Logistic, 4 MI, 15 Engineer, 12 Signal, 4 EW, 3 MP, 3 CBRN, 3 Medical & 1 EOD BDEs = 68 Combat Serves Support BDEs

    890 Advance (Leopard 2A6/7, LeClerc & Challenger 2) & 1374 Modern (Leopard 2, C1), 2470 Capable (Leopard 1, M60A3, T72 & PT91), 517 Poor (M60 & TR88), 1688 Hopeless (M48 & T55) Tanks = 6939 Tanks
    9560 Infantry Fighting Vehicle (IFV)
    2912 SP Field Artillery, 2929 Towed Field Artillery & 941 MLRS/MRL = 6772 Total
    408 Attack & Scout Copters (AH64, AH1, Tigre, Mi24, AW129, Gazelles, OH58)
    1515 Troop Transport copters




    3. China
    They are robust Defense spending and policy of quality over Quantity is starting to pay off. they made really good advances in their Navy & Air Force. But they still lack Alliances and top end Tech. They also have created a Joint level commands. the lack of ability to really project real combat power farther then it region is telling. They still use way to much mod Russian equipment. China is Blocked in on all sides. and their Forces are still best for Defense only.

    Air Fleet
    20 Advance Fighters (J20), 14 Modern Fighters (SU35), 842 Capable Fighters (SU30, SU27, J11, J15, J10 & J16), 700 Hopeless (J7 & J8) fighters = 1576 Fighters
    360 Ground attack Jets (JH7, Q7)
    189 Bombers (old)
    15 AEW/C2 planes, 77 Satellites, over 2000 UAVs, 13 Fuelers planes, 67Transport planes (Large/Medium).

    Navies

    Major Warships
    2 Aircraft Carriers (CV), 27 Guided Missile Destroyers (DDG) & 61 Guided Missile Frigates (FFG).

    Minor Warships
    37 Corvettes (Cor), 139 large Patrol Ships (PC), 42 Mines warfare Ships (MWS), 57 Amphibious Ships (LPD, LSM & LST), 235 Landing Crafts (LC), 204 Support ships (Sup)

    Subs
    9 Nuclear Attack Submarines (SSN) & 48 Diesel Attack Submarines (SSK)

    48 Anti Submarine Warfare Jets & Copters (ASW)

    Ground Forces
    (Army & Marines)
    29 Armored, 29 Mech, 97 Infantry, 6 Airborne, 2 Air Assault, 6 Amphibious BDEs = 169 Maneuver BDEs
    67 Field Artillery, 13 CABs, 48 ADA BDEs = 118 Combat Support BDEs
    22 Logistic, 27 Engineer, 12 Signal, 2 EW, & 16 CBRN = 79 Combat Serves Support BDEs

    3390 Capable (ZTZ99 & ZTZ98), 300 Poor (ZTZ96), 3773 Hopeless (all it older models) Tanks = 7463 Tanks
    4290 Infantry Fighting Vehicle (IFV)
    2360 SP Field Artillery, 6194 Towed Field Artillery & 1926 MLRS/MRL = 10480 Total
    246 Attack & Scout Copters (Z19 & Z10)
    153 Troop Transport copters



    4. Russia
    Russia's Military is smoke and mirrors. more Bark then Bite. Their spending for a force of it size is terrible. they got a lot of aging equipment for both it navy and army. their pilots don't fly enough. and their real combat experiences the last 30 years has not been good. neither at the low, middle or higher level. they couldn't get air dominance vs Georgia even though Georgia had no Air Force. Their logistics was almost broken by the missions in Ukraine, Crimea & Syria. corruption is still a major issue. Their Fleet & ability to ship build is rotting away. Their Forces are clearly defensive in nature. thus why they have poured so much into Cyber warfare. Who knows what will happen when Putin dies or has a stoke.


    Air Fleet
    70 Modern Fighters (SU35 & SU34), 640 Capable Fighters (SU30, SU27, MiG29, MiG31 & SU33) = 710 Fighters
    397 Ground attack Jets (SU24 & SU25)
    139 Bombers (old)
    28 AEW/C2 planes, 99 Satellites, over 1000 UAVs, 15 Fuelers planes, 178 Transport planes (Large/Medium).

    Navies

    Major Warships
    1 Aircraft Carriers (CV), 2 Battle Cruiser Nuclear (BC), 3 Guided Missile Cruisers (CG), 15 Guided Missile Destroyers (DDG) & 13 Guided Missile Frigates (FFG).

    Minor Warships
    48 Corvettes (Cor), 21 large Patrol Ships (PC), 43 Mines warfare Ships (MWS), 19 Amphibious Ships (LSM & LST), 28 Landing Crafts (LC), 265 Support ships (Sup)

    Subs
    9 Guided Missile Submarines Nuclear (SSGN), 17 Nuclear Attack Submarines (SSN) & 28 Diesel Attack Submarines (SSK)

    127 Anti Submarine Warfare Jets & Copters (ASW)

    Ground Forces
    (Army & Marines)
    9 Armored, 54 Mech, 3 Recon, 3 Machine Gun, 7 Airborne, 5 Air Assault, 6 Amphibious BDEs = 87 Maneuver BDEs
    22 Field Artillery, 4 MRL, 11 SSM & 15 ADA BDEs = 52 Combat Support BDEs
    10 Logistic, 4 Engineer, 1 Signal, 2 EW, 10 Transport & 15 CBRN = 42 Combat Serves Support BDEs

    100 Advance (T14), 350 Modern (T90), 2740 Capable (T80 & T72) = 3190 Tanks
    7381 Infantry Fighting Vehicle (IFV)
    2259 SP Field Artillery, 400 Towed Field Artillery 156 SSM & 862 MLRS/MRL = 3677 Total
    484 Attack & Scout Copters (Mi24, Mi35, KA52 & Mi28)
    133 Troop Transport copters



    5. Japan
    Their war fighting ability is pretty modern. They got a well trained military. They got a great blend of Tech. They also have the ability to grow really fast. Because they spend a tiny part of their GDP on Defense and they have a nice size home grown Defense/Aerospace Industry. They also have a well defined C2. The Navy is world class. But they do lack Amphibious abilities. Now their laws hamper their military abilities a lot. more then anything else. They also have some outdated equipment. Their alliances and joint training help sharpen a deadly force. What they lack in size they make up in Ability. But this is Clearly a Defense force.

    Air Fleet

    20 Advance Fighters (F35), 42 Modern Fighters (F15E), 235 Capable Fighters (F15C/D & F2) & 66 Poor (F4) = 371 Fighters
    17 AEW/C2 planes, 8 Satellites, over 500 UAVs, 6 Fueler planes, 16 Transport planes (Large/Medium).

    Navy/ USCG
    Major Warships
    4 Aircraft Carriers Light (CVL), 3 Amphibious Assault Ships (LHA/LHD), 2 Guided Missile Cruisers (CG), 32 Guided Missile Destroyers (DDG), 9 Guided Missile Frigates (FFG).

    Minor Warships
    100 large Patrol Ships (PC), 26 Mines warfare Ships (MWS), 8 Landing Crafts (LC), 38 Support ships (Sup)

    Subs
    19 Diesel Attack Submarines (SSK)

    161 Anti Submarine Warfare Jets & Copters (ASW)

    Ground Forces
    4 Armored, 8 Mech, 23 Infantry, 1 Airborne, 1 Air Assault BDEs= 37 Maneuver BDEs
    9 Field Artillery, 3 CABs, 3 ADA BDEs = 15 Combat Support BDEs
    14 Logistic, 5 Engineer, 1 Signal & 1 MP BDEs = 21 Combat Serves Support BDEs

    100 Advance (Typ10) & 341 Modern (Typ90) & 283 Poor (Typ74) Tanks = 724 Tanks
    294 Infantry Fighting Vehicle (IFV)
    172 SP Field Artillery, 398 Towed Field Artillery & 99 MLRS/MRL = 669 Total
    148 Attack Copters (AH64 & AH1)
    69 Troop transport copters




    6. ROK
    ROK has steadily improved it over military and their abilities. they are no longer just a Defensive force. they now have expanded into a force that can do a lot. Their C2 has improved greatly and is fully interconnected with the USA. they do Joint Training not only with the USA but also with other Nations annually. Their local Defense/Aerospace industry continues to put out really good tech. they got the potential to be a leading ship building force. they got a large pool of reservist. This a force on the rise. They are currently Surrounded by powerful foes and allies. you know it a tough area when North Korea is the weakest nation that surrounds you. But the Korean Military & it people are built Ford Tough!!! LOL


    Air Fleet
    273 Capable (F15C/D, F16C/D & FA50), 60 Poor (F4E), 174 Hopeless (F5E/F) Fighters = 507 Fighters
    4 AEW/C2 planes, over 300 UAVs, 16 Transport planes (Large/Medium).

    Navy/ USCG
    Major Warships
    1 Amphibious Assault Ships (LHA/LHD), 3 Guided Missile Cruisers (CG), 6 Guided Missile Destroyers (DDG), 16 Guided Missile Frigates (FFG).

    Minor Warships
    33 Corvette, 51 large Patrol Ships (PC), 10 Mines warfare Ships (MWS), 6 Amphibious Ships (LPD & LST), 30 Landing Crafts (LC), 17 Support ships (Sup)

    Subs
    15 Diesel Attack Submarines (SSK)

    39 Anti Submarine Warfare Jets & Copters (ASW)

    Ground Forces
    11 Armored, 12 Mech, 122 Infantry, 1 Air Assault & 7 Amphibious BDEs= 153 Maneuver BDEs
    24 Field Artillery, 1 CABs, 4 ADA BDEs = 29 Combat Support BDEs
    12 Logistic, 11 Engineer, 8 Signal & 1 CBRN BDEs = 32 Combat Serves Support BDEs

    100 Advance (K2), 481 Modern (K1A1), 1080 Capable (K1 & T80) & 900 Hopeless (M48) Tanks = 2561 Tanks
    2140 Infantry Fighting Vehicle (IFV)
    1353 SP Field Artillery, 3500 Towed Field Artillery & 214 MLRS/MRL = 5067 Total
    90 Attack Copters (AH64 & AH1)
    37 Troop transport copters



    7. India
    Some will look at India and go they got a huge military. but It very size is what holding it back. Their Logistics and power projection are a mess. for all it size very free forces can be projected outside of their region. The vast majority of their army is just infantry. Their Air Force on paper looks good. Their C2 is a mess. They lack SP Field Artillery. Corruption is hurting both leadership, training & their home Defense/Aerospace industry. on the bright side they are improving across the military. they got some good tech. at the end of the day 1.5 million paramilitary (16 different organizations), is draining them of resources and are not evenly trained or equip.

    Air Fleet
    452 Capable (MiG29, SU30, Mirage 2000 & Tejas), 20 Poor (MiG23), 174 Hopeless (MiG21) Fighters = 646 Fighters
    182 Ground Attack jets (Jaguar & Mig27)
    7 AEW/C2 planes, 6 Fuelers, over 1000 UAVs, 36 Transport planes (Large/Medium).

    Navy/ USCG
    Major Warships
    1 Aircraft Carrier (CV), 15 Guided Missile Destroyers (DDG), 12 Guided Missile Frigates (FFG) & 3 Frigates (FF).

    Minor Warships
    8 Corvette, 100 large Patrol Ships (PC), 4 Mines warfare Ships (MWS), 9 Amphibious Ships (LPD, LSM & LST), 10 Landing Crafts (LC), 31 Support ships (Sup)

    Subs
    1 Nuclear Attack Submarine (SSN), 13 Diesel Attack Submarines (SSK)

    60 Anti Submarine Warfare Jets & Copters (ASW)

    Ground Forces
    20 Armored, 17 Mech, 90 Infantry, 1 Airborne & 1 Amphibious BDEs= 129 Maneuver BDEs
    44 Field Artillery, 3 MRL & 8 ADA BDEs = 55 Combat Support BDEs
    8 Engineer & 1 Signal = 9 Combat Serves Support BDEs

    1147 Modern (Arjun & T90), 1950 Capable (T72) Tanks = 3097 Tanks
    2500 Infantry Fighting Vehicle (IFV)
    2972 Towed Field Artillery & 192 MLRS/MRL = 3164 Total
    19 Attack Copters (Mi25)
    67 Troop transport copters



    8. Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Oman, UAE & Bahrain
    this KSA Dominated Group is Equipment rich. they upped their training & improved their C2 greatly since 1991. Logistics, overall training & sea Forces are still a big weakness. they all really upgraded their anti Missile defense & fighter Jets Training & equipment. as a group they spend a lot on Defense. They are depended on foreign Defense/Aerospace companies.


    Air Fleet
    161 Modern (F15E & Typhoon), 314 Capable (F15C/D, Mirage 2000, F18 & F16C/D), 12 Hopeless (F5E) Fighters = 487 Fighters
    81 Ground Attack jets (Tornado)
    15 AEW/C2 planes, 25 Fuelers, over 500 UAVs, 60 Transport planes (Large/Medium).

    Navy/ USCG
    Major Warships
    3 Guided Missile Destroyers (DDG), 8 Guided Missile Frigates (FFG).

    Minor Warships
    16 Corvette, 32 large Patrol Ships (PC), 5 Mines warfare Ships (MWS), 3 Amphibious Ships (LST), 48 Landing Crafts (LC), 18 Support ships (Sup)

    7 Anti Submarine Warfare Jets & Copters (ASW)

    Ground Forces
    11 Armored, 19 Mech, 10 Infantry & 1 Airborne BDEs= 41 Maneuver BDEs
    6 Field Artillery, 1 CAB & 5 ADA BDEs = 12 Combat Support BDEs
    2 Engineer & 1 logistic BDE = 3 Combat Serves Support BDEs

    1016 Advance (M1A2, LeClerc & Challenger 2), 688 Capable (M60A3& M84), 191 Poor (AMX30 & M60) & 36 Hopeless (OF40) Tanks = 1931 Tanks
    3639 Infantry Fighting Vehicle (IFV)
    751 SP Field Artillery & 455 Towed Field Artillery & 175 MLRS/MRL = 1381 Total
    138 Attack/Scout Copters (AH64D/E, AH1, Gazelle & AH6)
    67 Troop transport copters



    9. Israel

    this is a force that has a lot of strengths and is very strong in both C2, training, local defense/aerospace, equipment, missile defense, army & air force. where it weak is overall numbers, navy and Logistics. They have adopted the Prussian way of war. they are only a power with their in their local area. they lack the ability to power project pass their local area. They got one of the best Air forces in the World.

    Air Fleet
    20 Advance (F35), 25 Modern (F15E), 275 Capable (F15A-D & F16A-D) Fighters = 320 Fighters
    14 AEW/C2 planes, 9 Satellites, 11 Fuelers, over 200 UAVs, 15 Transport planes (Large/Medium).

    Navy/ USCG
    Minor Warships
    3 Corvette, 8 large Patrol Ships (PC), 2 Landing Crafts (LC), 3 Support ships (Sup)

    5 Diesel Attack Submarines (SSK)

    7 Anti Submarine Warfare Jets & Copters (ASW)

    Ground Forces
    12 Armored, 12 Mech, 16 Infantry & 5 Airborne BDEs= 45 Maneuver BDEs
    8 Field Artillery & 5 ADA BDEs = 13 Combat Support BDEs
    6 Logistic, 1 MI & 1 Signal BDE = 8 Combat Serves Support BDEs

    480 Advance (Merkeva IV) & 730 Modern (Merkeva III) Tanks = 1210 Tanks
    300 Infantry Fighting Vehicle (IFV)
    514 SP Field Artillery & 342 Towed Field Artillery & 182 MLRS/MRL = 1038 Total
    55 Attack/Scout Copters (AH64A/D & OH58)
    75 Troop transport copters


    10. Egypt
    They have Greatly improved their Forces. On paper they should be higher on this list. but Lack of Local Defense/Aerospace companies, troop training, financial issues and a lot of different parts for the different equipment hampers their abilities. but overall if they continue to improve i for see them moving up. This force is still mostly a Defense Force. but that is quickly changing.

    Air Fleet
    11 Modern (Rafale), 140 Capable (MiG29, Mirage 2000 & F16A-D), 54 Poor (Mirage V) & 70 Hopeless (J7 & MiG21) Fighters = 275 Fighters
    9 AEW/C2 planes, over 100 UAVs, 24 Transport planes (Large/Medium).

    Navy/ USCG
    Major Warships
    2 Amphibious Assault Ship (LHD), 1 Guided Missile Destroyers (DDG), 9 Guided Missile Frigates (FFG).

    Minor Warships
    3 Corvette, 21 large Patrol Ships (PC), 14 Mines warfare Ships (MWS), 3 Amphibious Ships (LSM), 15 Landing Crafts (LC), 24 Support ships (Sup)

    6 Diesel Attack submarines (SSK)

    10 Anti Submarine Warfare Jets & Copters (ASW)

    Ground Forces
    21 Armored, 24 Mech, 13 Infantry, 1 Airborne, 2 Air Mobile BDEs= 61 Maneuver BDEs
    28 Field Artillery, 2 SSM & 15 ADA BDEs = 45 Combat Support BDEs
    6 Engineer 8 MP, 6 Signal, 9 Medical & 12 logistic BDE = 41 Combat Serves Support BDEs

    1110 Modern (M1A1), 850 Capable (M60A3) & 300 Poor (M60) Tanks = 2460 Tanks
    757 Infantry Fighting Vehicle (IFV)
    492 SP Field Artillery & 962 Towed Field Artillery, 42 SSM & 450 MLRS/MRL = 1946 Total
    48 Attack/Scout Copters (AH64D & KA52)
    96 Troop transport copters


    Best of the rest
    Taiwan, Pakistan, Brazil, Australia, Serbia, Finland, Iran, North Korea, Vietnam


    Post Your Thoughts

    #Armylifeoldmanfatboystyle!!!!
    #warriorswanted
     
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  2. Signalian

    Signalian SENIOR MEMBER

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    Other large conventional militaries are :
    Turkey, Pakistan , Greece, Iran, DPRK, Myanmar, Indonesia, Thailand, Vietnam.
     
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  3. Zarvan

    Zarvan ELITE MEMBER

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    Arabs in the list is a bad joke, And China should be on 2 and Russia on 3rd
     
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  4. MUSTAKSHAF

    MUSTAKSHAF SENIOR MEMBER

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    Arabs have some of the best Equipment,just look at KSA it has almost 228 F-15's,53 EF 2000, and 81 Tornados in service+25 F-15 on order.It alone makes an airforce which looks more capable then PAF & IAF.
     
  5. Counter-Errorist

    Counter-Errorist FULL MEMBER

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    This is just ranked hardware superiority. There's far too many variables unaccounted for. To list a few:

    - Training
    - Intelligence (HUMINT/SIGINT)
    - Strategic and Tactics planning / implementation
    - Size of armed forces
    - Terrain familiarity
    - Battle hardiness
    - Alliances

    The relatively low-equipped Pakistani forces won decisively against the TTP while the US military behemoth failed against the Afghan Taliban.
     
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  6. Ziggy1977

    Ziggy1977 FULL MEMBER

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    Turkey & Greece are Part of NATO


    Pakistan Lack of ability to really power project past the countries bordering it are why they are not higher on this list. example it doubtful if pakistan could deploy more then 5 BDEs to the Iranian Border.


    I talk About Alliances in the list. that why NATO & the KSA group are on there.
    I also talk about experience (battle hardiness)
    same true of C2 = Strategic & tactics planning/ Implementation
    all i do is talk about Training in the comments

    I didn't Talk about Intelligence (HUMINT/SIGINT) because most Nation Suck outside of their region at this.


    If it wasn't For the NATO Alliance they would be 2nd & 3rd.
     
  7. LeGenD

    LeGenD ELITE MEMBER

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    I do not think this is a good comparison.

    Pakistani armed forces confronted TTP within Pakistani territory (i.e. territorial and cultural familiarity), and with overwhelming support of the Pakistani public because TTP was attempting to undermine/damage/harm Pakistan, and WE (i.e. Pakistani Public) absolutely hated TTP and wanted it to fail. Americans also softened/disoriented TTP by attacking/assassinating its key figures from time to time (this type of assistance is not given much credit in discussions which is completely unfair). TTP still exist and is able to pull off terror attacks within Pakistan from time-to-time but no longer a potent threat to the state. Personally, I hope TTP cease to exist.

    Nevertheless, Pakistani armed forces learned a great deal from War On Terror since 2001, and it is battle-hardened to the point of thwarting potential efforts of Indian armed forces to harm Pakistan which is great for Pakistan in these trying times.

    However, Pakistan is not in the position to take over another large country by force and reshape its political landscape and/or annex one. This is apparent from our failure to take over IOK by force, Siachen Glacier, and any Indian land of significance (i.e. the Battle of Asal Uttar).

    ---

    It is not possible for a country to win every type of war it chooses to fight. However, US does have sufficient conventional military capability to project overwhelming power in any part of the world, and take over another large country by force if necessary and/or reshape its political landscape if necessary.

    US have an impressive resume in the art of warfare on the whole: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/history-of-american-wars.538912/

    ---

    Afghanistan have rightfully earned the mantle of the Graveyard of Empires due to the fact that conventional victories in this region do not produce a lasting impact; Afghans are tribal and split along ethnic lines, and continue to fight each other for indefinite period. As such, internal problems of Afghanistan overshadow foreign exploits in the long-term and no foreign power have been able to reform Afghanistan thus far.

    Americans subjected Afghanistan to far more effective methods of firepower than the Soviets in the 1980s and also the British in earlier times, but still have limited gains to show on the ground at present. They ousted Afghan Taliban from power in 2001, and defeated Al-Qaeda Network in the region (2001 - 2011), but Afghan Taliban re-surged after 2014 and have prevented US-backed Afghan government to control some parts of the country since. Now it seems that US haven't accomplished much in Afghanistan in-spite of some impressive accomplishments on the ground in strictly military terms and its ability to sustain a government in Afghanistan for long-term. For instance, people seldom talk about how US ousted Afghan Taliban from power in 2001.

    US-Afghan WAR explained in detail in this link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Afghanistan_(2001–present)

    - very lengthy read.

    18 years have passed and US now gives the impression of being just another tribe in Afghanistan vying for control... :lol:

    Afghanistan being landlocked does not help potential invaders either.

    US fought a more challenging war in Iraq and have solid gains to show there in a sharp contrast.
     
  8. Signalian

    Signalian SENIOR MEMBER

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    you are entitled to your opinion - i stand with mine
     
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  9. Adonis

    Adonis FULL MEMBER

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    In Today's warfare, there are very less chances of two states engaging with each other..it is time of "Alliances"...so it very much depends on who all are standing with you to provide you logistic/military support by overt or covert means....that can make war more sustainable for you OR in case you are on loosing side, can jump to stop the conflict and help you at negotiation table with their backing.
     
  10. Ziggy1977

    Ziggy1977 FULL MEMBER

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    the fact is the US has lost the war. but that not because of the US Military. it because the Afghans (Locals & Taliban), refuse to surrender.

    Where the US failed at. is to convinces the local afghan ppl that it better to be with the US backed Government then the taliban. Also the very presence of US Forces and the fact that the Afghan govt is fully controlled by the US is reason for some locals to fight. even though the Taliban has outside support. they are not controlled by outsiders. which is something the afghan govt can't say.

    Also the US has never really done anything for the Afghan ppl 1st and the needs of the USA 2nd. it always been the other way around. and the Afghans have know this.

    it east to defeat a nation's Military and conquer it. It another thing to convince them to surrender. Most of the ppl of Afghan still live the same way they lived before Oct 2001. the US has failed to help the Afghans build the S.W.E.T.

    Sewage
    Water
    Electric
    Transportation

    instead we wasted time & Hundred of Billions on a few roads to no where, schools & Troop Training. and most of these funds have gone to local warlords, corrupt govt officials and foreign contractors & Companies.

    That a broad brush why the US Lost. the US failed to muster it civilian side. Instead relied only on the military.


    a Swiss army knife is a great utility tool for some things. But sometimes you need to have a real tool box to fix a car engine. the US Govt has failed to realize this simple truth. the US Military is the Swiss army knife.


    LOL LOL

    i was just stating that i put Turkey & Greece Forces within NATO. Because they are part of NATO. but I think i will do one without NATO and just do it with individual countries. even though Countries use Alliances.

    thank you for the feed back

    V/R
    Ziggy
     
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  11. LeGenD

    LeGenD ELITE MEMBER

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    @Ziggy1977

    Thanks for your informative insight vis-a-vis Afghanistan. Fair enough to it.
     
  12. Hakikat ve Hikmet

    Hakikat ve Hikmet SENIOR MEMBER

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    How many of these LGBTs have fought like real MEN in the last couple of decades, and could hold the ground against the determined adversaries from the MEN????
     
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  13. damm1t

    damm1t SENIOR MEMBER

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    You overrated the Arabs... extremely...
     
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  14. Maarkhoor

    Maarkhoor ELITE MEMBER

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    From where you bring this list?
    Assume from there where sun never shines.....
     
  15. EpiiC

    EpiiC FULL MEMBER

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    By IAF you mean Indian Air Force right?