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Movement against rogue establishment!

airmarshal

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Only people who have army background are bootlickers.

Even PMLn supporters will agree that Army as an institution needs huge reforms otherwise it will cause more and more harm to country as time passes.

Why will PMLN types want to reform army?

Army and corrupt politicians need each other. Its because of corrupt politicians army has such a sinister hold on the country.

A country of our size and resources could not be begging around for a billion dollar or requesting debt restructuring all the time. We have potential to be a normal, thriving country. But the army establishment is holding the country by its neck, not letting it breathe.

Army derives its power from Pentagon not the people of Pakistan. It becomes relevant by joining American wars and getting rent in return. We are still not recovered from Army misadventure in Afghanistan in which our army willingly pushed the country into inferno.

We need to wake up and get out of this romance. There is no change after new army chief. They all come from same tribe. Each of them may do it differently, but they want to keep the hold on the country. This is why a Major General has not been removed. This is why Election Commission, a pet dog of establishment has started disqualification proceedings against Imran. The establishment wants to eliminate Imran but people must rise to eliminate establishment from politics.

If establishment wants to stand against the people, its the people who will win and no general goes into fighting a losing battle if the stakes arent high enough. In this case, the stakes are personal.
 

HAIDER

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I'm surprised you didn't blame Aurangzeb or even Umar RA for merit killing in our institutions.

For the record, "merit killing" started by your beloved momin bhai Bhutto who took away protections from bureaucracy and then nationalized all industry and conducted massive hiring of no skill jiyalas into all state institutions and ran them into the ground.
My witness is my family, may be Bhutto too. But the real merit massacre started in Zia era. But fail to understand in every matter you have a religious twist ..... maybe you have seen lot of bad things in the Bhutto era. You are free to address this issue. I live in America, I don t know where you live ... free to publish your personal opinion.
May you don t know the biggest brain drain started in Zia era.
 
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VCheng

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If establishment wants to stand against the people, its the people who will win and no general goes into fighting a losing battle if the stakes arent high enough. In this case, the stakes are personal.

Thus far, the people are not doing what IK is hoping they will do. What happens by the time elections are held is anybody's guess.
 

imadul

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Stop glorifying Bhutto. Also he wasn't resisting anything. He used to call ayub daddy and was completely aligned with yahya khan on everything related to east Pakistan crisis
Things are relative my brothern e Islamiyah. Seeds were sown when general De Gaulle occupied the seat.
Bengalis were declared bhooka bengali. Power was in the hands of ayub who handed it over to yahya who appointed tikka khan and aak Niazi who declared,
بنگالیوں، ہم تمہاری نسلیں تک تبدیل کردیں گے۔
Bhutto played his part for power grab but he was hanged and general Yahya and general niazi?? Buried in Pakistan flag while Generals examined dead ZAB private parts to determine was he a less mumin than them!
انکی بےحیائی کی کوئی حد نہیں۔

ہمارے تو مذہب میں غیر مسلم کی میت کے احترام کی بھی ہدایت ہے۔
 

imadul

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IK has been and is continuing to expose bootmafia and their whore judges. He has shown that majority of our politicians are not much more than boot mafias pawns.

IK has done his job, it is up awam, mainly our educated youth to fight for their rights. As it their future at stake.
awam have come as never seen before. IMO, it will be a slow cooker as Pakistani awam are not Iranians, they cannot give lives like Iranians. We will know in less than a month how long that struggle will be. Worst case IK shall be disqualified along with few pti big shots, and criminal family cartel will be brought to power with political engineering.
IK won't stand down and final victory will be of awam even if it takes few years.

Is it really? This unrest that is being claimed has not achieved much up till now, to be honest.
The challenge to IK and awam is massive as army establishment has no regard for law, constitution, morals, country, and its people.
I took part against butto in 77 when I was in 7th grade and then against Zia in 80's. This Army establishment have no regard of humanity as compared to past despots.
ان کے منہ کو خون لگا ہوا ہے۔
 

imadul

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Imran clearly says establishment must be in politics it's contradictory what you are saying and what Imran
He said about participation for the goodness of the country but he was deceived as so many like I who had trusted army that they are sincere.
How damn stupid of us.

Either become nelson Mandela by standing alone against all odds one day you win
Nelson Mandela was fighting against independence from apartheid. That was white colonialism.
Are we fighting against a colonial power?
We thought it is our army.
Again so damn naive of us!!

If Imran brings clear stance no more involvement in Pak politics by establishment I will be the first to stand by him so don't tell me bro he is against he is playing his cards to make him PM and do what you want to do

He wants to work with army that they have power which can be used for goodness. May be he is playing, may be he believes in that.
He is also pragmatic so once he becomes PM again he has to work with them..he does not want to make an enemy of a very powerful entity.
Army power will be reduced gradually once he delivers or any other leader.
 

Tameem

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Establishment - IK(DK) fight is weakening them both simultaneously specially MEs which have Grand stakes (Post IK, PTI Finish). A humiliated MEs so publically will never recover from this episodes and thus restrict their chances to rule again in the hearts and minds of Pakistani Public ever.

The end benefitters will be traditional politics and politicians and that is a good omen for Pakistan future.
 

Areesh

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Things are relative my brothern e Islamiyah. Seeds were sown when general De Gaulle occupied the seat.
Bengalis were declared bhooka bengali. Power was in the hands of ayub who handed it over to yahya who appointed tikka khan and aak Niazi who declared,
بنگالیوں، ہم تمہاری نسلیں تک تبدیل کردیں گے۔
Bhutto played his part for power grab but he was hanged and general Yahya and general niazi?? Buried in Pakistan flag while Generals examined dead ZAB private parts to determine was he a less mumin than them!
انکی بےحیائی کی کوئی حد نہیں۔

ہمارے تو مذہب میں غیر مسلم کی میت کے احترام کی بھی ہدایت ہے۔

Abay bhai leave this nonsense glorifying ZAB

I don't know what is this new found PTI obsession with glorifying ZAB. The guy was a dictator in himself and has done more harm than good for Pakistan
 

Super Falcon

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He said about participation for the goodness of the country but he was deceived as so many like I who had trusted army that they are sincere.
How damn stupid of us.


Nelson Mandela was fighting against independence from apartheid. That was white colonialism.
Are we fighting against a colonial power?
We thought it is our army.
Again so damn naive of us!!



He wants to work with army that they have power which can be used for goodness. May be he is playing, may be he believes in that.
He is also pragmatic so once he becomes PM again he has to work with them..he does not want to make an enemy of a very powerful entity.
Army power will be reduced gradually once he delivers or any other leader.
Sir army should not be involved in any civilian public matter they should have one clear job stay out of cities and figh a war that's end of it if you keep asking their remarks in any civilian matter than nothing will change

In developed countries

Armed forces stay out of cities and they are not allowed to even wear a uniform in public places and they have no extra rights as military

Imran wants military involvement which is never good why can't you learn from past lessons
 

SD 10

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Only people who have army background are bootlickers.

Even PMLn supporters will agree that Army as an institution needs huge reforms otherwise it will cause more and more harm to country as time passes.
yeah pmln supporters are equally against the army!

Abay bhai leave this nonsense glorifying ZAB

I don't know what is this new found PTI obsession with glorifying ZAB. The guy was a dictator in himself and has done more harm than good for Pakistan
ZAB destroyed Pakistan`s economics.....the investor confidence that was shattered at the time is still not back! Some people in pti glorify him without knowing much about the details of his betrayal to Pakistan and especially its economics!
 

M. Sarmad

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From your post I felt that only a shia can be called a momin

May I know from where you guys got the authority to issue such certificates??

No one is issuing any certificates. Nor did anyone claim that only Shia can be called Momin. Shia here usually refer to themselves as 'Momins' and to other Sunnis as 'Muslims'. Nothing wrong in that I believe as they ain't doing "takfeer" like what Deobandis and Wahhabis do as a part of their belief system. But that's besides the point. One may have many genuine reasons to dislike ZAB, but hating him for his sectarian affiliations should not be one of them. And that's exactly what your Deoband brethren here are doing. @SaadH took a jibe at Bhutto calling him a Momin. His post reeked of sectarian hatred and I merely pointed it out
 

Areesh

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No one is issuing any certificates. Nor did anyone claim that only Shia can be called Momin. Shia here usually refer to themselves as 'Momins' and to other Sunnis as 'Muslims'. Nothing wrong in that I believe as they ain't doing "takfeer" like what Deobandis and Wahhabis do as a part of their belief system. But that's besides the point. One may have many genuine reasons to dislike ZAB, but hating him for his sectarian affiliations should not be one of them. And that's exactly what your Deoband brethren here are doing. @SaadH took a jibe at Bhutto calling him a Momin. His post reeked of sectarian hatred and I merely pointed it out

So you are saying shias do soft takfeer while wahabis/deobandis do hard takfeer

Hard takfeer is unacceptable while soft takfeer is acceptable :lol:

Anyways I have already asked @SaadH to stop using this momin thing in his posts
 

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