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Mourn idea of India, but don’t forget that the idea of people is changing too

jamahir

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If you are hungry then you will ask for food. Why the hell rest of the society ask you if you are hungry every now and then.
You mention hunger. Tell me, why is hunger still present in India despite the magical six years of Modi government ? The hungry are hungry not because there is some famine in India but the people don't have money. In India if you don't have money you go hungry. India is not a welfare state country.

There is another simple case. There are many blind people who again remain blind because of lack of money.

Another case of farmers in India who probably in a few million committed suicide since 1947 ( the "Independence" ) because they didn't have money to repay large-interest-based loans. Did feudalism go away from India since 1947 ?

These things are ridiculous !

India maintains one of the largest armed forces in the world and is the second largest importer of armaments in the world. What is India defending against when the internal system is rotten ?

Did this Hindu-Nationalism government ever think of removing the real problems of India instead of erecting that huge, unnecessary statue of Vallabhbhai Patel ? And there is the planned state of Ram in Ayodhya which is meant to be the largest statue in the world and is supposed to cost 2500 crores to construct. Living humans facing unnecessary problems but respect and resources being paid to non-living statues of divinities ?

History has shown that Hindus/Sikhs/Buddhists can coexist. Only foreign religions are the problem.
Firstly, Hinduism is as foreign to India as Islam or Christianity, unless you believe in the thing about "Ten thousand of Hindu history in India accompanied by scientific marvels such as in vitro fertilization and inter-planetary travel".

Secondly, it wasn't the Muslims who proposed the separation of United India. It was the Hindutva elements. I quote this article :
Speaking at the session 'Shashi on Shashi' with Micheal Dwyer on Day 2 of the Jaipur Literature Festival (JLF), Mr Tharoor claimed that the Hindutva movement started by Vinayak Damodar Savarkar categorically rejected the Constitution.

He said that for Savarkar, a Hindu was one for whom India was his fatherland and holy land. Muslims and Christians were not considered in this.

"Savarkar, Madhav Sadashiv Golwalkar and Deen Dyal Upadhay rejected the constitution and in fact agreed with the Muslims that religion should determine nationhood. In the historical sense, the first advocate of the two-nation theory was actually Savarkar, who as the head of the Hindu Mahasabha called upon India to recognise Hindus and Muslims as part of two separate nations three years before the Pakistan Muslim League passed the Pakistan Resolution in Lahore in 1940," he said.
 

Ajay Ghatak

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You mention hunger. Tell me, why is hunger still present in India despite the magical six years of Modi government ? The hungry are hungry not because there is some famine in India but the people don't have money. In India if you don't have money you go hungry. India is not a welfare state country.

There is another simple case. There are many blind people who again remain blind because of lack of money.

Another case of farmers in India who probably in a few million committed suicide since 1947 ( the "Independence" ) because they didn't have money to repay large-interest-based loans. Did feudalism go away from India since 1947 ?

These things are ridiculous !

India maintains one of the largest armed forces in the world and is the second largest importer of armaments in the world. What is India defending against when the internal system is rotten ?

Did this Hindu-Nationalism government ever think of removing the real problems of India instead of erecting that huge, unnecessary statue of Vallabhbhai Patel ? And there is the planned state of Ram in Ayodhya which is meant to be the largest statue in the world and is supposed to cost 2500 crores to construct. Living humans facing unnecessary problems but respect and resources being paid to non-living statues of divinities ?
Its a different topic altogether. I will love to talk about it, may be in its dedicated thread. In short :-

1. YES, feudalism in India went away. Remember a certain land ceiling law? Compare with Pakistan and the history of Nawaz family or Bhutto family.

2. Good that you mentioned farmer's plight. Do you know why it continued for so long? Do you know why Farmer gets 2 rupees while middle class pay 40 rupees for SAME onion or tomato? Because the bastards of liberal and secular made it possible. Read about Indian food distribution system, APMC, FCI and Essential Commodity Act and the whole stupid socialistic system which denied farmers a fair price. Just now, modi government took first step to fix it. If you want a deeper dive, watch this, it will enlighten you :
. Noteworthy, that this system was broken since 1955. That long. Also, the guy who is narrating is certainly not the Hindu Nationalist.

3. I am damn proud to say that Hindu Nationalists are fixing things. Things like 370. Things like triple talaq. Things like APMC and ECA which has kept Indians hungry and farmers destitude while promoting interests of state level politics and their cronies.

Firstly, Hinduism is as foreign to India as Islam or Christianity, unless you believe in the thing about "Ten thousand of Hindu history in India accompanied by scientific marvels such as in vitro fertilization and inter-planetary travel".

Secondly, it wasn't the Muslims who proposed the separation of United India. It was the Hindutva elements. I quote this article :
All said and done, Muslims got their exclusive land and Hindus/Buddhists/Sikhs did not. So about time Hindus take their land and ensure that no political power is granted to Muslims (who already have their nation and can go there if they want political power) in India.
 

jamahir

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Its a different topic altogether. I will love to talk about it, may be in its dedicated thread.
No, I think this thread is very appropriate.

1. YES, feudalism in India went away.
No, feudalism hasn't gone away. In some states there still is bonded labor. And to add to that is indirect bondage to banks and micro-credit institutions.

Do you know why Farmer gets 2 rupees while middle class pay 40 rupees for SAME onion or tomato?
So why are the farmer groups and even the Akali Dal party aligned with the BJP, opposed to this new "reform" ?

About the vid describing the "reform" please link me to a textual article.

and the whole stupid socialistic system which denied farmers a fair price.
Take a real socialist country like Cuba. Are you saying that farmers in Cuba commit suicide, that too in the hundreds of thousands ?

Things like 370.
What is your solution to the Kashmir issue ? You can tag an actual Kashmiri citizen like our own member Saahir Malik to make known of the solution.

And if you visit the forum's magazine section you will find my solution to the issue.

Things like triple talaq.
The problem was Instant Triple Talaq which was a corruption of Islamic marriage law. And what can you tell me about the latter ?

All said and done, Muslims got their exclusive land and Hindus/Buddhists/Sikhs did not. So about time Hindus take their land
I have told you. Hinduism is not native to India.

and ensure that no political power is granted to Muslims (who already have their nation and can go there if they want political power) in India.
Can you ask Modi to say this ethnic-cleansing-type statement in an international forum like the UNO ?
 
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Ajay Ghatak

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So why are the farmer groups and even the Akali Dal party aligned with the BJP, opposed to this new "reform" ?
Ahem. Politics, ever heard of it? BTW, if you are genuinely interested in knowing why, watch that video that I linked to.

About the vid describing the "reform" please link me to a textual article.
This article seems to be linked to the video. It was published in print.in and NOT swarajya mag or a right wing magazine. That said, I have not read it word by word because the video covered the topic extensively.

 
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Ajay Ghatak

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What is your solution to the Kashmir issue ? You can tag an actual Kashmiri citizen like our own member Saahir Malik to make known of the solution.

And if you visit the forum's magazine section you will find my solution to the issue.
Again, its a tangent which needs a whole thread of its own. So open one or revive one and I will be happy to join you there.
 

Ajay Ghatak

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I have told you. Hinduism is not native to India.
Even if one takes that position then why ONLY Islam deserved its own land and country in the subcontinent? And now they have that land, why are they infesting the remainder of the land? Simply put, Islam needs to be peacefully managed out of India. Denying the polity is the perfect process for that.
 

Ajay Ghatak

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The problem was Instant Triple Talaq which was a corruption of Islamic marriage law. And what can you tell me about the latter ?
Does not matter. In India, Islam is secondary to Indian laws. It will either follow the laws or will suffer the consequences.
 

t1000

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Modi is the master of optics. He is building palaces in the clouds while on the ground there is pretty much nothing to show. Well of course, except for DeMo: the greatest money whitewashing operation in human history; bhakts say this was a stroke a stroke of genius becoz as we all know, corruption has been kicked out of India and all the black money returned.
He and the sycophants that surround him will sell india off. And the poor bhakts keep the circle-jerk show going on.

Just like how the racist White Supremacists came out of the woodwork after Trump, so too have the bhakt termites come out of their little holes here.
It always surprised me as to how similar the tactics used by white supremacists are to those used by hindutva goons/bhakts; esp. relating to spreading video content, making fake stories laced with just the right amount of facts and so on; almost as though the tactics were lifted out of the same book.
 

Ajay Ghatak

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Modi is the master of optics. He is building palaces in the clouds while on the ground there is pretty much nothing to show. Well of course, except for DeMo: the greatest money whitewashing operation in human history; bhakts say this was a stroke a stroke of genius becoz as we all know, corruption has been kicked out of India and all the black money returned.
He and the sycophants that surround him will sell india off. And the poor bhakts keep the circle-jerk show going on.

Just like how the racist White Supremacists came out of the woodwork after Trump, so too have the bhakt termites come out of their little holes here.
It always surprised me as to how similar the tactics used by white supremacists are to those used by hindutva goons/bhakts; esp. relating to spreading video content, making fake stories laced with just the right amount of facts and so on; almost as though the tactics were lifted out of the same book.
Its always easy to make (inaccurate) general statements. Its hard to be specific and yet correct. Its even harder to be generally correct.
 

lightoftruth

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Idea of people/ idea of India these are all attempts to "theory's" a simple fact that this is about survival and changes people bring due to their needs, sometimes "intellectuals" try to deny/bully it.

Hindus have been historically under attack be it in mewat,Assam, kashmir,Bengal etc and this has been continuously ignored by the "secular" regime due to minority appeasement for votes.

Since ,now Hindus have realised that they need to be politically assertive ,this all mourning is going on.

Most intriguing is the attempts to divide Hindus on caste basis just so they could parrot that Meem-Bhim crap.

Dalits have been at the forefront of Muslim attacks and they are voting in mass to BJP, deal with it.
"You cannot fool them" "You cannot divide Hindus".
 
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Joe Shearer

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Hindus have largely been respecting everyone else for thousands of years, along with Jainism, Buddhism, Sikhism. It doesn't mean that they haven't engaged in persecution, but nothing to compared to what Christians and Muslims have historically done. They have given more than enough respect to Islam and Christianity. I'm not Hindu by the way. But it looks like you want Hindus to be meek and mild. Why can't India be a country where Hinduism is given the foremost place?

सिकंदर ने हराया था पोरस को, तो मैं क्या करूँ?
سکندر نے ہرایا تھا پورس کو, تو میں کیا کروں?


It is not surprising that the first argument that pops up is rooted on who did what to whom in the past - this happens to be a discussion about the present. Not surprising at all, since all the moping and wailing is due to the perceived injuries and the perceived defeats of the past, again, as imagined by the most effete and least war-like segments of Indian society, the entitled and born-to-the-role learned men who spent their learning to repress a segment of fellow human beings who numbered nearly as many as they. Before some wise person stumbles over that fact to ask with the utmost ingenuousness why that charge of being a mentally castrated and ineffective set should not be applied to the nearly as many, I refer them to the historical case of the Spartiate against the other Laconians and the Messenians.

It is not that a respect given out of helplessness, and rooted all the while in contempt and loathing for the supposedly respected is of any value; that is just plain hypocrisy at worst, a justified self-defence against overwhelming force at best. Now that the pressure to conform is off, it is clear and apparent what those expressions of respect were worth.

Obviously, not all Indians were full of hatred while dissembling; there were, and are, very many who were willing to live and let live. Without necessarily going to the extent of agreeing with the religious intransigence that others perceived in the (perceived) oppressor, there are many of us - I am a Hindu, btw - who are quite happy to let Muslims and Christians practice their religion, provided it does not become socially obnoxious and an assertion of the sole access to divinity of the devout Muslim or the devout Christian. Beyond practising their religion in any reasonable way, there should be no impediment placed in the way of the Muslim or the Christian citizen, or any question whatsoever of physical assault or murderous assault.

Let me also ask you how you came to the strange and rather convenient conclusion that I - or anyone else questioning the present social attitude - wish Hindus to be meek and mild. Where did that creep in? There is no reason why a Hindu cannot lead a perfectly self-respecting life without going out of his way to attack either the Muslim or the Christian way of life.
 

Joe Shearer

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Hindus have been historically under attack be it in mewat,Assam, kashmir,Bengal etc and this has been continuously ignored by the "secular" regime due to minority appeasement for votes.
Amazing how a majority seeks out victim and minority status in the teeth of all the evidence to the contrary.
 

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