• Wednesday, December 19, 2018

Month of July and the dark eras in Iraq history

Discussion in 'Arab Defence Forum' started by SALMAN F, Jul 14, 2018.

  1. SALMAN F

    SALMAN F BANNED

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    Today is the 14th of July and in the coming days is the 17th of July which they both mark sad memories to some Iraqis and happy to others


    The 14th of July of one of the bloodiest and darkest moments in the Iraqi history with the overthrow of the monarchy and murder the royal family the second one is the 17th of July which is the day the Ba'ath party took over the power in Iraq which was the begging of bloody era
     
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  2. SALMAN F

    SALMAN F BANNED

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  3. Malik Alashter

    Malik Alashter SENIOR MEMBER

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    Both are nothing but continuing episodes of the dark ages that clouded the sky of Iraq since the Islamic Khilafah

    We Iraqis didnt see any good days except few years here and there

    This new type of government is our hope otherwise

    the same dark ages will come back
     
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  4. SALMAN F

    SALMAN F BANNED

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    Well said i think the same



     
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  5. CamelGuy

    CamelGuy FULL MEMBER

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    Isn't that ironic, on the same date protests happen. A coup wouldn't be too bad.
     
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  6. Saif al-Arab

    Saif al-Arab BANNED

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    I might be highly biased here but I do believe that Iraq's fortunes would have been different (and largely better) had the constitutional monarchy survived to this day. In fact King Faisal II could have "ruled" to this day as he would "only" have been 83 years old. That would have made him the third longest ruling head of state in history, only behind some obscure German Lord of Lippe that died over 500 years ago and the King of tiny Swaziland, Sobhuza II, that ruled for 82+ years.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_longest-reigning_monarchs

    Many people forget, when criticizing the monarchy, that the Iraqi monarchial system and political system was ahead of its time compared to the overall standards of the region.

    The royal family had close ancestral ties to modern-day Iraq despite being from Hijaz originally (the Sharifs of Makkah and Madinah have intermarried with Iraqi Arabs for centuries as well as numerous other fellow Arabs from next door Egypt, Sham, Yemen and even further away in the Maghreb) and had support from both Sunnis and Shias (due to lineage) as well as non-Muslim religious groups (due to not being persecuted and having freedom to worship their own religions) within Iraq. At least there was respect for the institution by the common citizen although the institution, like all others, was not perfect.

    That the UK had influence was inevitable back then (Iraq was occupied and "created" (gained independence from) in its modern-day form by the UK after all) and the UK was back then what the US is today. A superpower. Or at least an important power with a lot of political influence in the region as a whole.

    The same UK establishment most likely helped eliminate King Ghazi of Iraq when he became too close with Nazi Germany and wanted to incorporate Kuwait into Iraq. Nuri al-Said was rumored to be a collaborator in this death and "the UK's local man".

    The way the king, some members of the monarchy and other officials (military officials and politicians as well) were killed in 1958, kickstarted a bloody tradition of those coming to power killing of former rulers which was witnessed 5 years later (1963) and afterwards when the Ba'ath Party came to power.

    BTW during the monarchy political parties were functioning and the prime minister was the one which the most political power. The monarch was merely the head of state and had a final say in certain matters but that was it. It was nothing like the Shah's power next door let alone other Arab monarchies of today.

    I personally believe that Iraq needs a figurehead that transcends sects etc. that could serve as a guarantor of peace and Iraqi interests being protected at all times from opportunistic elements from within.

    Anyway the past is the past. Dwelling too much into it (goes for history in general which is second to none in the Arab world as most educated people in the world know about) is not healthy. It's time to move forward.

    The Iraq under the monarchy is no longer. Today other ideologies (mainly religious) are dominating and unfortunately the society remains highly divided when it comes to ideology and visions depending on where you ask although everyone is interested in improvement and the basic needs being met.

    My quick two cents for what it is worth.







     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2018
  7. Saif al-Arab

    Saif al-Arab BANNED

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    Part 1)

     
  8. Saif al-Arab

    Saif al-Arab BANNED

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    Remaining 4 parts









    Princess Badia (daughter of Ali bin Hussein, last king of Hijaz)

    [​IMG]

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    is still alive. 98 years old.

    From a few years ago:

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    Mother of.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharif_Ali_bin_al-Hussein

    Princess Badia gave a much-viewed and long interview to Iraqi television about the monarchy period and the unfortunate events in 1958. Can be viewed on Youtube.

    King Faisal II would have been a great ruler. I have no doubt about that. Highly intelligent and well-liked.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

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    And the king spoke fluent English and French. It took 60 years before another Iraqi head of state (Al-Abadi) could even speak a second language! Not a coincidence that Al-Abadi has been the best leader since 2003 either.



    :lol:

    @SALMAN F @OutOfAmmo



    BTW, here 60 years after, and protests across Iraq continue but for other well-known and understandable reasons (corruption, cancerous influence from the Farsi Mullah's etc.)
     
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  9. Saif al-Arab

    Saif al-Arab BANNED

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    Almost all the comments are positive.



    Tintin and the Iraqi king
    A comic book character in Tintin is based on the last Iraqi King Faisal II, who was executed along with his family in 1958.
    AFP
    August 17, 2011
    Updated: August 17, 2011 04:00 AM

    Baghdad's July 14 bridge, a convenient route to the US Embassy and government offices in Baghdad's fortified Green Zone, quite obviously marks a 1958 coup when Iraq's last king was murdered.


    Not many know, however, that although King Faisal II died at the age of 23, he lives on in the classic Tintincomic books.

    Years before, the young king had captured the imagination of the West - as well as the Tintin writer Georges Rémi, who used the pen name Hergé - after the tragic death of his father King Ghazi in a 1939 car crash sent Faisal to the throne at age three.

    From childhood until death, the life of Iraq's "boy king" was chronicled in photos and articles in big-name US magazines such as Time, Life and National Geographic. Hergé quietly drew on the anecdotes to fashion his character Prince Abdullah of the imaginary kingdom of Khemed. The mischievous Arab prince and practical joker both exasperated and charmed the boy reporter Tintin and his irascible friend Captain Haddock, first inLand of Black Gold (1950) and later in The Red Sea Sharks (1958).

    Specifically it was a 1941 National Geographic story on Iraq with a picture of the young king, then six, that inspired Hergé, according to Frank Madsen, 49, a Danish writer and illustrator of children's books.

    "That picture was traced by Hergé and made to resemble his fictional character, Prince Abdullah, the son of the Emir of Khemed," said the Tintin expert.

    The comic books are having a resurgence these days, in anticipation of the Steven Speilberg-directed The Adventures of Tintin, due to hit movie theatres in December.

    As for Prince Abdullah, even King Faisal's own cousin – who would become king if the monarchy were to be restored – did not recognise Hergé had modelled one of the characters on his famous relative.

    "I have read Tintin since childhood, but I never made the connection with King Faisal," said Sharif Ali bin Hussein.

    King Faisal II was just 23 when he was led into the palace courtyard with several family members, all of them executed under the command of Captain Abdul Sattar As-Saba'a, a leader in a coup led by Colonel Abdul Karim Qassim.

    The day's events changed the course of Iraqi history and led to the rise of Saddam Hussein in 1979, a dictatorship that lasted until he was ousted by the 2003 US-led invasion.

    Hussein, Faisal's maternal first cousin now in his mid-50s, was just two at the time of King Faisal's death. But by all accounts, he said Hergé managed to capture the young monarch's sense of playfulness.

    "What I know from family anecdotes is that he used to love practical jokes, which is an indication of his sense of humour and sense of fun," said Hussein at his villa on the Tigris river, where framed photographs of his royal Hashemite lineage adorn the wall.

    Despite Hussein's familiarity with the series, the Tintin comics remain virtually unknown to most Iraqi teenagers or even to older generations.

    But as Abdullah's character was modelled after the real-life Iraqi king, since 2003 Iraq has turned into a model of Hergé's imaginary kingdom of Khemed, whose oil riches were coveted by western oil executives and arms merchants. And today, like Khemed, Iraq remains an oil-rich but broken country. Eight years after the invasion, clean drinking water is non-existent and electricity sporadic. Corruption runs wide and security is tenuous at best.

    "If Tintin were to come to Iraq, he would probably recognise many of the same characters he used to know," said Hussein, the would-be king.

    "Things really haven't changed that much."

    https://www.thenational.ae/arts-culture/books/tintin-and-the-iraqi-king-1.436508

    [​IMG]

    :lol:



     
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  10. SALMAN F

    SALMAN F BANNED

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    Let's start the game

    I am the referee
    @Saif al-Arab on the monarchy team
    @Malik Alashter on qassim team

    and @OutOfAmmo is on the arab nationalists and Baathist team
    But still we need judges:lol:
     
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  11. Saif al-Arab

    Saif al-Arab BANNED

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    I am on the team that serves Iraq, the Arab world and nation the best.:cheers::enjoy:

    However if I had the ability to time travel and change history, I would have left the monarchy for at least 1-2 decades more.

    Personally I am not a great fan of socialistic movements in the Arab world as most proved to be great failures but I am a supporter of a welfare system and the state helping people in need when they need it. I am pragmatic. Not an "ideological warrior" that is not flexible.

    If it suits the nation, people and the development, I will incorporate influences from various ideologies.

    However my preferred ideology is science and knowledge.:omghaha:
     
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  12. Saif al-Arab

    Saif al-Arab BANNED

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    The coat of arms of the Kingdom of Iraq is one of the best in history as well and perfectly incorporates important features of Iraq and Arab and Semitic civilizations in general.

    [​IMG]

    Two rivers (Tigris and Euphrates and the confluence at the Shatt al-Arab river), the lion (an important Arab and Semitic, in this case Babylonian lion, symbol used for several millennia), the Arabian horse (the most important, famous and expensive horse in history), the two stars above the central shield on either sides represent Ishtar and Shamash. At the confluence of the two rivers date palm trees can be seen (back then the largest date palm forest was found in Southern Iraq (banks of the Shatt al-Arab river).
    Underneath the date palm trees over the rivers are a scimitar (famous Arab sword) and a spear, to depict defense of the land, around the shield at the top are in Kufic script "Kingdom of Iraq" and underneath the year of independence 1932.

    Underneath the shield are gold wheat ears (the Arab world is the cradle of agriculture) and a palm frond.

    Most probably the best coat of arms of all time IMO.




    Some nice flags from the era as well.

    Kingdom of Iraq (1924-1958)
    Mamlakat al-Iraq
    Last modified: 2014-03-08 by zoltán horváth
    Keywords: star: 7 point (white) | royal standard | crown prince | inspector general of the army | chief of the general staff |
    Links: FOTW homepage | search | disclaimer and copyright | write us | mirrors


    [​IMG][​IMG] 1:2
    image by Željko Heimer

    See also:
    [paste:font size="5"]Kingdom of Hejaz, and was in use at the time of independence in 1932. The flag was actually used before independence, from 1924 to 1959. The British occupied Baghdad on 10 January 1919. The allied supreme council created a British mandate on 25 April 1920 and the League of Nations approved it later. The British suppressed a major Arab insurrection in July-December 1920. Faisal, deposed king of Syria, arrived in June 1921, and the British proclaimed him King of Iraq on 23 August after a plebiscite voiced 96% approval. The British simultaneously changed the mandate into a protectorate. The Iraq flag adopted by Faisal in 1921 slightly changed the Sharifian flag: it was a black-white-green tricolor with a red trapezoid in the hoist and two 7-pointed white stars in the red.
    T. F. Mills, 16 December 1997

    The flag was used as national flag and state and civil ensign. The construction details are given in [Flaggenbuch as (2+2+2):12 with trapezoid height being 3. The seven-pointed stars are heptagrams of "sharpness" 1, they are inscribed in imaginary circles whose diameter is not given in Flaggenbuch, and is about 4/3 or so (measuring from the image). The centers of the circles appear to be in the midpoint of the heights from the trapezoid inner vertexes.
    Source: [Flaggenbuch]
    Željko Heimer, 28 November 2001

    [​IMG]
    image by Juan Manuel Gabino Villascán

    [paste:font size="5"][​IMG]1:2
    image by Željko Heimer

    Black-white-green tricolour flag with a red triangle at hoist containing a golden crown.
    Source: [Flaggenbuch
    Željko Heimer, 28 November 2001

    It should be noted that until 1930, Iraq was de jure ruled by Faisal and de facto ruled by the king's British advisors. Only in 1930 Iraq and United Kingdom signed a treaty which made Iraq an independent nation and Faisal I as its ruler de jure and de facto.
    Dov Gutterman,
    12 April 1999

    [paste:font size="5"][​IMG]1:2
    image by Željko Heimer

    Similar to royal standard, but in a peculiar pennant shape.
    Source: [Flaggenbuch
    Željko Heimer, 28 November 2001

    [paste:font size="5"][​IMG]2:3
    image by Željko Heimer

    Green flag with two white seven-pointed stars placed one above the other.
    Source: [Flaggenbuch
    Željko Heimer, 28 November 2001

    [paste:font size="5"][​IMG]2:3
    image by Željko Heimer

    Red flag with a white seven-pointed star in the middle.
    Source: [Flaggenbuch
    Željko Heimer, 28 November 2001

    [paste:font size="5"][​IMG]2:3
    image by Željko Heimer

    White over red bicolour.
    Source: [Flaggenbuch
    Željko Heimer, 28 November 2001

    https://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/iq_kingd.html

    Compared to the current "Eagle of Saladin" there is no comparison IMO.

    [​IMG]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coat_of_arms_of_Iraq
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2018
  13. Saif al-Arab

    Saif al-Arab BANNED

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    Protests are continuing in the South and some roads have even been blocked by protestors. Luckily less than 15 people have died in those protests in the past 2-3 weeks.

    Due to the political chaos after the parliamentary elections, things have been boiling over. Add to that the corruption, ineffective economic planning, electricity blackout and water shortages, economic budget problems and a lot of youth (growing) that wants better opportunities.

    I talked about this ages ago elsewhere (Iraqi, Arab and English forums) and even many times in person but the usual excuses were given. Now everything turns out as I have always been saying. In fact it has been visible always. Talked about an highly inefficient and corrupt system, a constitution that was forced upon the nation and people (by large) and the need to change it in order to change the political system for a more effective and less sectarian oriented politics. The whole situation with the North is self-explanatory as well. A mess.

    Symptomatic that half of the ballots were burned down in that suspicious fire at the beginning of June. We all know who was behind that.


    Obviously we know where this anger comes from and where it is aimed at. At corrupt politicians and in particular elements in the Iraqi political system and certain militias allied to a certain foreign cancerous incompetent regime (Iran) that ironically faces the same challenges at home.

    Monarchies in the region have been much better at combating those challenges more effectively. Even the likes of Jordan which is not a rich (resource) country.

    My solution is simple and I have talked about it before but all the details are best discussed among Iraqis and Arabs. Certain changes in the society need to occur and this goes for other Arab countries as well (mentality wise) but that's for another discussion altogether.

    Iraq needs a MbS. A young, ambitious and visionary leader who is not afraid of making controversial but necessary changes. A pragmatic leader.

    Al-Abadi was a good leader actually (maybe not the strongman that is needed), however a million times better than the cancer that is Al-Maliki and his incompetent monkeys (no names mentioned). The voters (unbelievable that the idiot Hadi al-Amiri received more votes) wanted it differently. Too much brainwashing from those anti-Iraqi institutions that teach loyalty to clerics and political parties over that of the country, land and people. After all many actual traitors are leading those political parties. (Hadi Al-Amiri). People who proudly fought against their own country and people on behalf of foreigners.



    Unfortunately such monkeys are found among Hezbollah sellouts in tiny Southern Lebanon and among the Houthi terrorist cult.

    A good pathetic example.



    We need much more of this.









    Eventually the historical normality will return but for the sake of Iraq, it would be better (to put it mildly) if this process (necessary) occurred quicker. It will take some time. Maybe even 1 generation. However there is light at the end of the tunnel. The youth will not tolerate status quo much longer.

    This won't come for free. Sacrifices (lives will be lost) will occur. However if the ongoing incompetence continues even more lives will be lost.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2018