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Military Simulation - The Indo-Pak conflict - A hyperbole

CrazyZ

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Also India will only keep 3 of the kilo class the rest are being scrapped. You're only getting in scorpene. Only 2 of the old German subs will be upgraded. The Ahrint class is being trialled.

6 + 3 +2 = 11

You have 1 akula on lease, the lease ends next year.


We will have 13 subs, indian calculations didn't include didn't include our midget submarines either.
You should add that India has more coastline to defend. The PLAN doesn't have to get directly involved to have impact. It just needs to send a small battle group into the Indian ocean and India will have to deploy at least 50% of its fleet to counter. Same in the north on the ground and in the air.
 

UDAYCAMPUS

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Also India will only keep 3 of the kilo class the rest are being scrapped. You're only getting in scorpene. Only 2 of the old German subs will be upgraded. The Ahrint class is being trialled.

6 + 3 +2 = 11

You have 1 akula on lease, the lease ends next year.


We will have 13 subs, indian calculations didn't include didn't include our midget submarines either.
So we will retire our subs while Pakistan keep all of it's fleet? We can refit more as needed, your link says that we might refit 3 more so say 6 kilo class subs. Also Arihant total number is 4, will expect all of them to be operational by first of this decade (arihant is operational and arighat is in trials or maybe secretly operational), we also have made a deal for another Akula class SSN with Russia that will join our navy soon enough in first half of the decade.
So even being sceptical of further orders and acquisitions/refits we can say at the very least -
6 scopene SSKs
4 arihant SSBNs
6-8 kilo class SSKs
Let's say 2 german ones (not sure)
1 akula class SSN
Ofcourse we have other future projects in line including new ssbs, ssns, and conventional subs. It's written in your link too, we had option to go for more scorpenes and kilos but decided to go for indigenous option.
This wiki page has a list of future planned platforms
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_of_the_Indian_Navy
 

313ghazi

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So we will retire our subs while Pakistan keep all of it's fleet? We can refit more as needed, your link says that we might refit 3 more so say 6 kilo class subs. Also Arihant total number is 4, will expect all of them to be operational by first of this decade (arihant is operational and arighat is in trials or maybe secretly operational), we also have made a deal for another Akula class SSN with Russia that will join our navy soon enough in first half of the decade.
So even being sceptical of further orders and acquisitions/refits we can say at the very least -
6 scopene SSKs
4 arihant SSBNs
6-8 kilo class SSKs
Let's say 2 german ones (not sure)
1 akula class SSN
Ofcourse we have other future projects in line including new ssbs, ssns, and conventional subs. It's written in your link too, we had option to go for more scorpenes and kilos but decided to go for indigenous option.
This wiki page has a list of future planned platforms
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_of_the_Indian_Navy
Babu, it took your country 14 years to sign a deal for 126 MRCA, which eventually was only 36 aircraft . I've been hearing about it for nearly 2 decades - 126 rafale, f-18, euro fighter, su-35, mig-25, gripen - unimaginable powa for IAF, only to get 36 planes after nearly 20 years of tamasha.

Let's leave out the fantasy line ups.

The article I posted clearly states the numbers of submarines will not increase over the next decade.

Any masala news about secretly operating submarines should be left on YouTube where it belongs.
 

UDAYCAMPUS

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Babu, it took your country 14 years to sign a deal for 126 MRCA, which eventually was only 36 aircraft . I've been hearing about it for nearly 2 decades - 126 rafale, f-18, euro fighter, su-35, mig-25, gripen - unimaginable powa for IAF, only to get 36 planes after nearly 20 years of tamasha.

Let's leave out the fantasy line ups.

The article I posted clearly states the numbers of submarines will not increase over the next decade.

Any masala news about secretly operating submarines should be left on YouTube where it belongs.
MMRCA is a different ball game with foreign players. Subs will not increase meaning? The fleet I have mentioned is one we will have by first half of the decade as they are either currently operational or under construction apart from akula class that will be leased, the SSBNs being completely indigenous. 6 scorpenes are coming and it's common knowledge that kilos are getting refit along with few of German ones. We can't afford to decommission our conventional fleet now so they'll be getting refits.
About Arighat SSBN it will be commissioned this year. The other two SSBNs which have basically double the SLBM carrying capacity will be inducted within first half of the decade.
https://swarajyamag.com/news-brief/...ubmarine-arighat-to-be-commissioned-this-year
India is prioritizing it's sub fleet over surface now as seen by us giving preference to nuke subs over our third aircraft carrier
https://swarajyamag.com/news-brief/...tised-over-second-indigenous-aircraft-carrier
I am not even taking into account our future plans of indigenous SSNS, SSBNs and SSKs, only what is currently present /in advance stage of building.
By the time all of Pakistan's Chinese subs are inducted, you can expect few more of our indigenous/foreign subs in our fleet.
 

Irfan Baloch

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I am quite fond of Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations as a past time and is a fairly realistic wargame:

"Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations is a comprehensive wargame of air & naval military operations from post WW2 to the near future, covering scenarios of both total war and low intensity situations. The scale is primarily tactical/operational, although strategic scale operations are also possible."

It is also provided to militaries as a simulation and scenario tester

https://command.matrixgames.com/?page_id=3822

They regularly consult with think tanks and former military to build out their playable scenarios so they are sometimes ground in reality if not a little hyperbole thrown in. So to give us something other than the usual to delve on and let our top members have some thoughts thrown out - along with helping me spend a boring Friday afternoon, I decided to paste the entire scenario with some comments thrown in and get " reviews", thoughts and laughter if at all. But it also helps address the question of where the future is really going. BE forewarned, it can be a long read so only if you feel you have the time and find nothing better to do

@Irfan Baloch @Dazzler @niaz @notorious_eagle @fatman17 @krash @The Eagle @PanzerKiel @PAR 5 @Signalian @Foxtrot Alpha @LeGenD @Deino

Other members can tag others as well - after all, with all the chaos going on in the world, why not stress a little more with thoughts of more chaos?:p:

Recently they came out with a scenario for the subcontinent called Kashmir Fire - it basically extrapolates from the events of 2019 and puts them in 2024 and goes from there. The scenario plays out over 16 engagements that switch sides to provide a full play perspective from both sides. Starting with just India and Pakistan it ends with a Indian-US alliance taking out a Pakistani-Chinese alliance completely. What is interesting is that another simulation back in the early 90s(even with Pressler) imagined the US attacking India with the help of Pakistan - so it is a good reflection of what both think tanks and eager enthusiasts are all aligned on.

The crux of events is below(2024 timeframe):

1. Border Skirmish
Ever since the Indian Subcontinent was independent of Great Britain, conflict between the predominantly Hindu Indian population and predominantly Muslim Pakistani population has been practically constant. With several official and unofficial conflicts taking place between 1947 and today, there is plenty of bad blood between the two nations.

Recently insurgents in northern Pakistan have increased attacks into Indian held Kashmir. Indian forces have put pressure along the border to contain insurgents to Pakistan, but are so far unsuccessful. Pakistani forces have also engaged with these insurgents, however the frequency of attacks within Pakistan is minimal in comparison. Indian Armed Forces are massing in the Kashmir and Punjab regions to bolster local police and military forces in an effort to stem the insurgent attacks.

Three days ago, Indian forces launched a short incursion into Pakistan chasing after withdrawing insurgents, they retreated into India quickly, however their presence was known. Pakistan strongly denounced the Indian military action outside of their borders, and warned of a retaliation in case of a repeat offense. Tensions between the two South Asian powers are running high, and conflict appears inevitable.
(Essentially 27th Februray but with the supposed "surgical strike" of Uri as the start)

Indian Mechanized forces have moved across the border for the second time in three days, they have been warned, and this time they will suffer the consequences.
Eliminate the three (3) Forward Operating Bases near the border in southern Kashmir and northern Punjab. FOBs Serpent, Hydra, and Harpy are already located for striking.
In addition, engage Indian armored and mechanized forces that have crossed the border. Their exact locations are unknown, however they are reported to be East of Lahore, near Shakargarr, and near Hadali.
(Best outcome is essentially 27th february with much more relaxed ROEs and no losses to PAF)

2. Retaliation (played from Indian perspective)
Yesterday morning, Pakistani Forces made true their promise to engage any Indian forces that crossed the border into Pakistan. In addition to attacking Indian forces in Pakistan, Indian Forward Operating Bases on the other side of the border were attacked as well. The Pakistani operation also resulted in an air brawl, in which aircraft from both sides freely engaged each other.
The afternoon of 19 October was relatively calm, with both sides temporarily standing down and recovering from the events of the morning. The Indian public is outraged and demands that Pakistan pay for the lives that India lost. Following an emergency meeting of top Indian officials, the decision was made to make a retaliatory strike against Pakistani military sites.
While neither side is officially ready for conflict, it appears that the two countries will soon descend into all out conflict.

Situation
Pakistan’s air assault yesterday neutralized our three forward operating bases on the frontier with Pakistan. In addition, they attacked and destroyed SAM sites along the border as well as silencing our radars operating in the region. The Ministry of Defense has decided that offensive action against PAF bases and assets is to take place as early as 0000 Zulu on 20 OCT 2024.

Mission
Eliminate high value Pakistani air defense targets and engage airbases and the facilities associated with the PAF. Ammunition storage, hangars, and fuel facilities are top targets, however runways are also desirable targets. Targets are as follows:
All Air Defense Sectors Headquarters
PAF Murid
PAF Minhas
PAF Mianwali
PAF Rafiqui
PAF Shahbaz
PAF Faisal
PAF Masroor
In addition, Pakistan has acquired shore based cruise missiles, these are to be eliminated.
(About 126 IAF assets available and is considered a success if less than 3 are lost while eliminating all objectives - takes 24 hours of in simulation time - probably 90 minutes of real time to go through this)

3. Chaos (Played as Pakistan)
After India’s broad retaliatory actions, all diplomatic solutions have been thrown out the window for the short term. India and Pakistan have fallen into armed conflict on all fronts, and Indian forces are advancing into Pakistan, albeit slowly. Pakistan is putting up firm resistance in the air and on the ground, but a small Indian flotilla has effectively blockaded Pakistan’s coast.
Many tribal leaders in the northern mountains of Pakistan were initially highly critical of the opening of hostilities with India. This led to a strong division in the Pakistani military, as many of those who call the mountains home were strongly influenced by these local authority figures. Yesterday, large units of the Pakistani Air Force and Army defected to join the Mountain Alliance( I am assuming this is hyperbole based upon PTM but taken to the extreme)
The Territorial Government of Gilgit-Baltistan declared autonomy from Pakistan and has attempted to remove themselves from the conflict, however neither India or Pakistan recognized this claim and are both addressing the Mountain Alliance as terrorists.
In addition, China has stated that they are going to remain out of the conflict, but are closely monitoring the conflict and will act in their best self interests. The United States has sent the John F. Kennedy Strike Group to monitor the situation from the Arabian Sea. The international community is strongly attempting to calm the conflict, however it is clear that neither side is showing any intention of slowing down.

Situation
Hundreds of soldiers, pilots and airmen have defected to join the rebels in the north. They have seized a number of MANPADs as well as Crotale and Spada SAM systems. Multiple armored and mechanized infantry units have also defected. The rebels have seized Skardu Airbase as well as militarizing the airports in Gilgit and Chilas. The latter two bases are of extremely limited capability, and are expected to only be housing rotary wing aircraft.
Mission
Maintain the current frontline with India, and degrade the so called Mountain Alliance’s forces.
Protect FOB Cannon east of PAF Mushaf and the refueling depot east of PAF Rafiqui.
Conduct assigned CAS tasking ( essentially holding ops at best - the Mountain alliance also has some F-7s)

4. Doomsday Clock (India)
Combat has been raging for nearly two weeks along the frontier, and neither side has made significant advances. Indian forces have taken high casualties attempting to dislodge Pakistani forces around Lahore, and so far have been unsuccessful despite an intense air and artillery campaign. Pakistani forces have also held extremely firmly at Karachi against a fairly broad Indian ground offensive.
The Mountain Alliance has proven itself a tough nut to crack, despite having no international support and seeing offensives launched against it from both Pakistan and India. Neither country is throwing a huge amount of resources at defeating the Mountain Alliance, although they have been causing issues for both countries’ forces.
Mountain Alliance forces have declared that if they continue to be encroached on by Indian forces, that they will make the country pay. India dismissed this, as the Mountain Alliance lacked any sort of credible offensive capability against the Indian population, until twelve hours ago.

Situation
Mountain Alliance forces have seized Hatf 4, 6, and 7 launchers from a depot in Northern Pakistan. Their locations are unknown, but it is speculated that they will not hesitate to use them, so quick action is required to eliminate these launchers regardless of the cost.

Mission
Eliminate all Mountain Alliance ballistic and cruise missile threats. ( Tricky situation of getting sorties through mountains but the basic premise of "unsafe nuclear weapons)

5. Flaming Seas (played as India)
After narrowly avoiding nuclear catastrophe, the Indian Military stepped up its offensives in all spheres of combat. The Mountain Alliance is still holding firm, however their Air Force is completely in shambles. Pakistani forces are on the run, however they are setting up defensive lines around major cities and infrastructure.
American and Chinese forces are closely monitoring the situation from the Indian Ocean. American diplomats are attempting to draw down the crisis, while Chinese diplomats are attempting to supply Pakistan. There have been reports of Chinese aircraft being shipped to Pakistan to supplement its dwindling Air Force, however these remain unconfirmed.
The Pakistani Navy has stayed in port at Karachi, maintaining its status as a fleet in being. Indian forces have maintained standoff from the coast due to the presence of land based SSMs. Both Indian carriers have been sidelined early in the conflict due to technical issues, but their appearance in the waters off Pakistan is near.

Situation
INS Vikrant and INS Vikramaditya have both sortied and are ready to launch offensive strikes against Pakistan. The Ministry of Defense has directed naval forces to engage the Pakistani fleet at Karachi. Most of their ships are currently in port at Karachi, while they have a few at sea. It is known that the crews are on high alert, and that the ships in port will be able to leave at a moment's notice. (Pakistani ships would not be sitting around , so this is turning into some simplistic assumption - also, Karachi isnt the only shelter available now)
Most of the remaining Pakistani fleet will be active, including their most advanced frigates of Turkish and Chinese origin. They also have multiple SSKs in port and at sea, including Type 041 submarines of Chinese origin.
Intelligence reports that thre are currently three (3) Pakistani frigates at sea in the Karachi area, and another 6-8 will be setting sail in the next 4 hours. At least two (2) submarines are at sea with another five (5) in port.
Resistance in the air should be limited, but be prepared to deal with CAP and potential airstrikes from Pakistani land based aircraft.
Pakistan has acquired an S-300 system from China and stationed it in Karachi. This will provide a significant challenge for conducting air operations within 100 nm of the city. In addition they are known to have YJ-12 and C-802 launchers near the city, so be wary of these land based threats
Mission
Sink as many ships and submarines as possible. Attack radars and coastal installations in order to support naval operations.

6. Shoreline (Played as Pakistan)
Four days ago Indian Naval Forces undertook a vast operation to degrade Pakistani naval and coastline capabilities and achieved high levels of success. Almost the entirety of the Pakistani Navy was sunk, either in the seas near Karachi, or at their moorings in the city. In addition, large numbers of Pakistani naval aircraft were destroyed, as were SSMs.
In a desperate plea, Pakistan acquired a number of old Chinese aircraft(JH-7A) to supplement their dwindling air force. China has changed stances and has discouraged India from further offensive action, leading to speculation that China may soon support Pakistan outright. China has increased their naval presence in the Arabian Sea, and is stepping up air patrols along the border.
The United States is still closely monitoring the situation and has a strong naval force in the region.

Situation
India has achieved almost complete control of the sea and is closing in on Karachi and Hyderabad on land, the situation is nearing desperate. China has increased their support, especially as far as material is concerned, but a strong victory is needed to stem the Indian advance and give the diplomats some leverage to get the Chinese involved.

Mission
Using all available aircraft and naval forces, locate and destroy the Indian carrier task force operating in the Arabian Sea. It is unknown how much longer the ships will be at sea due to their low munitions state, they will likely return to port within a few days to resupply. It is critical that they are destroyed before this, otherwise their defenses will be too powerful for remaining friendly forces.
(Simple enough if albeit a difficult task to avoid losses)

7. Alliances (played as Pakistan)
The Indo-Pakistani War has stunned the world. The speed at which Indian forces have advanced towards major Pakistani cities has surprised many foreign observers, but the losses both sides have taken is staggering. Pakistan is near the brink of defeat, and has pleaded for foreign assistance to China as well as other Muslim countries. China announced it was sending an expeditionary force to Pakistan to “protect the interests of the Chinese People and maintain security for Chinese assets abroad”.
Saudi Arabia(F-15SAs) and Indonesia(Su-30s and thank you @Indos ) also answered the call of Pakistan, sending forces to protect major Pakistani targets. Open conflict between China and India doesn’t seem near, however the world is fearful of the possibility. Pakistan will likely try to lead a new counterattack against Indian forces, but they need to stem the flow of Indian forces and supplies to the front line first.

Situation
Indian forces are still on the doorstep of multiple major cities, and they need to be turned back immediately. With the support of the Saudis, Indonesians, and Chinese, ground forces should be able to rally and start to push back. In order to give this counteroffensive a boost, strong interdiction efforts must be undertaken to isolate Indian frontline forces.

Mission
Multiple targets across Eastern Pakistan and Northwest India have been identified as critical to Indian supply efforts. Attacking and eliminating these targets is the primary focus of the next 12 hours. In addition, artillery has been shelling the outskirts of Karachi and Mianwali, these batteries need to be eliminated. MANPADS and SHORAD are to be expected around all targets.
(Mostly air ops that make good work of Indian forces if played smartly)

8. Flaming Dragon (Played as India)
The Pakistani counterattack against Indian forces has been broadly successful, and some of the pressure on the Pakistani civilian population has been reduced. China is no longer disguising its involvement, and has sent aircraft and material to support the Pakistanis. In addition both Chinese aircraft carriers have left port and are enroute to the Indian theater to open an air front on the eastern half of the country. Indian naval forces are not in any position to resist major Chinese naval operations, causing fears of a blockade of India.
India has looked for foreign assistance, but none have come to their aid. Many western countries have sharply criticized the Chinese intervention, but none have taken forceful measures. The United States announced that the Abraham Lincoln Strike Group would be deployed to the region to continue to protect maritime trade and safe passage. They will support the currently deployed Kennedy Strike Group.

Situation
China has directly attacked Indian forces from Pakistani airbases, which has propelled open conflict between the two counties. Their Pakistani and Chinese forces are expected to continue major offensive operations across the front, as well as conducting naval operations off the west coast of India. China has deployed their carriers, but they are a few days away.
Mission
Conduct operations to defend Indian airspace and airbases. Enemy forces are concentrated in the northern half of Pakistan, so if possible conducting offensive operations in the southern half is a secondary objective. Degrading the enemy’s ability to conduct air operations is paramount. Attacking SAM sites is the priority for any ground strikes made.

(Very Difficult - almost impossible to finish without heavy losses to Indian Forces)

9. Peacekeepers (Played as USA)
In the last week, Pakistani and Chinese land forces have advanced over 250 kilometers, moving the frontline from well inside Pakistan to between 40 and 70 kilometers into India(quite a big chunk actually.. Ghazwa e Hind fantasies for some here abound) Chinese armor and aircraft are causing incredible damage and disruption to Indian forces, and allowing the remaining Pakistani forces to capitalize. With the stunning advance, many Western observers fear India is in danger of losing the war. American forces have closed in near the shore to display their presence, and an expeditionary strike group has deployed to the area.
The United States has ordered all of its civilians in India to return to the United States, however India closed their major international airports, stranding hundreds of Americans in the war torn country.
Situation
American civilians are stranded across western India, and with Pakistani and Chinese forces closing, they need to be evacuated. Pakistan has declared that any aircraft flying over India will be declared hostile and engaged by Pakistani forces.(Oh sure, Pakistanis really are that dumb... :disagree:)
In addition, India is limiting their air operations in order to preserve aircraft. There will be air combat along the frontlines, but Pakistan owns the airspace. American embassy staff have negotiated with Indian officials, and the Indian government will allow American overflights of both transport and combat aircraft to evacuate American civilians.
Mission
Recover all Americans stranded in the country who have identified themselves. The majority are in Mumbai and New Delhi, however there are civilians located in Ahmedabad, Surat, Pune, and Dwarka as well. These should be recovered with aircraft from the Tripoli ESG.
There are also aircraft located at international airports in New Delhi and Mumbai. They have received special clearance to depart with American civilians onboard. They already have flight plans, however these can be adjusted. Ensuring these aircraft arrive in Kuala Lumpur and Bangkok safely is critical.
(Basically, the US allies with India and starts attacking Pakistani/Chinese forces)

10. Crackdown(Played as USA)
It took little more than a month for the Pakistan-India conflict to erupt into a war involving superpowers, now the intense regional conflict has sparked global involvement. The United States successfully evacuated their civilians from the conflict zone, but not without resistance. Pakistan fully enforced their no fly zone and the United States had to fight their way in to rescue their citizens. Pakistan was quick to criticize the United States “reckless aggression and blatant intervention”. The United States fired back stating it was “defending its citizens abroad against the reckless warfare being conducted by Pakistan”.
This incident was enough to spark conflict between the United States and Pakistan. The day after the evacuation, a Pakistani gunboat sailed within 500 meters of the USS Pickney, an American destroyer operating about 100nm off the Pakistani Coast. It is unclear who fired first, but the Pickney sank the gunboat, and all Pakistanis onboard were killed. Pakistan declared that it would “fire on any American forces without hesitation” in response.
Due to the increased tensions with the United States, Saudi Arabia and Indonesia have withdrawn support from Pakistan( Who wouldnt??)

Situation
Yesterday Pakistan announced that they would openly fire on American assets. The events of the last few days have convinced congress and the president that military action against Pakistan is in the best interest of the American people, and immediate strikes have been ordered. The Abraham Lincoln Strike Group is a week out, but the Kennedy Strike Group and Tripoli Expeditionary Strike Group are capable of handling the current threats.
China has so far declined to make a statement, but they should be treated with extreme caution.
Mission
Degrade Pakistani electricity production and infrastructure, as well as nuclear research and production facilities. Ensure that further operations are smooth by damaging Pakistani IADS as well. ( Generally easy if proper joint ops along with well prepared strike packages are used)

11. Escalation (Played as USA)
A week after the United States formally intervened against Pakistan, India has stemmed the advance of Pakistani forces and the frontline has settled. China has deployed both the Liaoning and Shandong carrier strike groups to put additional pressure on Indian forces, and the United States has responded by bringing the Abraham Lincoln strike group to the theater.
China stated that it would engage any American aircraft attacking Pakistani targets, which has led to a slight lull in American air operations as brass and politicians weigh their options. Last night, the US congress passed a secret vote, and today the results of that vote will be seen.
Situation
Last night congress voted for American forces to establish sea control off the coast of India so that full support of India can begin. This includes taking action against Chinese forces. The Abraham Lincoln Strike Group is on the southern end of the Indian subcontinent, and the JFK Strike Group just refueled and resupplied from sealift command vessels.
Mission
Degrade and destroy Pakistani and Chinese naval and coastal assets. Subsurface assets and aviation are a primary consideration, along with the offshore patrol group operating near Karachi. Preservation of American assets is critical.
In addition, safe passage of American supply ships back to Qatar(Et tu - Brutus??!) is an essential objective. Protect these ships well.
(Basically beat the crap out of Pakistani and Chinese forces and help India)

12. Thunder From The Sea (Played as India)
Pakistan and China have been halted on the ground, and the Indian military can catch its breath. The majority of the forces engaged are in the Kashmir region and surrounding areas, however the south has been the most dynamic theater. India, with the help of the United States, is pushing hard to attempt to isolate Pakistan from the sea. The major Indo-American victory at sea last week has made this goal a very real possibility.
Pakistan has mined the waters off of Karachi in order to prevent American and Indian shipping from threatening the shore.
India has ambitious plans(always have) for the future of the conflict, and today those plans will begin to unfold.
Situation
The Sino-Pakistani advance has been halted, leading to the potential for a large-scale counter-offensive. High Command has decided that the opportunity should be seized and an amphibious front should be opened against the city of Karachi. Capturing the city quickly would allow for a steady flow of reinforcements by sea to the area, and would cause serious logistics difficulties to Pakistan.
Mission
Using amphibious and airborne assets, capture the city of Karachi(Good luck surviving that hell!). The Pakistanis are likely unsuspecting of such a bold operation, and intelligence suggests that they could be taken completely off guard.

13. Over The Hump (Played as India)

The United States’ involvement in the Indo-Pakistani conflict has completely shifted the tide of the conflict in favor of the Indians. After the successful landing at Karachi, Pakistan’s major lifeline to the sea is gone. Ground fighting is intense, and neither side is conceding an inch of land. India is pushing into Pakistan, but it is at high cost to both sides.

China has stepped up its involvement immensely on the ground, and is keeping Pakistan reinforced through intense air commitment and airstrikes against the Indian forces. The area around PAF Mianwali and PAF Murid is the most heavily defended airspace in the world, thanks in large part to the Chinese IADS and CAP. India is going to struggle to crack the tough shell that has become the greater Islamabad area.
Situation
In anticipation for the upcoming offensive against the Sino-Pakistani stronghold in northern Pakistan, a strike must be made at their logistics. The Chinese are running most of their supplies through three airports in the Eastern Himalayas, which allows them a consistent stream of resupply over the mountains to their troops on the ground. Striking at these airbases and eliminating their ability to be used as a pitstop is critical to the upcoming operations success.
Mission
Destroy the AvGas facilities located at Xigaze East Airstrip, Lhasa Gonggar International Airport, and Nyingchi Airport.
Destroy all transport aircraft located at these bases.
Intercept and destroy the bombers flying into Lhasa Gonggar Intl.
(Basically, what India's contingency planners were hoping never having to do over Aksai Chin)

14. Falling Sky(played as Indo-US coalition, Tulsi Gabbard would be proud)

In the last month, Indian forces have pushed Pakistan back to the outskirts of Islamabad. China and Pakistan have fortified the airspace heavily in the area, with an intense IADS and combat air patrol net. The Indo-American coalition has strangled the Pakistani capital, but Pakistan is not backing down.
American forces still have stayed off the ground, despite Indian efforts to receive support on the ground. Despite not deploying boots on the ground, the United States has launched an intense air campaign against the Pakistani and Chinese forces. The Indo-American coalition is preparing for an incredible air offensive against the stronghold of Islamabad, which will prove to be a very difficult task.

Situation
Indian forces are preparing to launch a major ground offensive against fortified Pakistani positions in the Greater Islamabad area. In order for this to succeed, the coalition must achieve complete air superiority. Australia has recently deployed aircraft to assist in the coalition, and there is hope that more nations will join in on this final push.
Mission
Destroy and degrade the IADS in the Greater Islamabad area. Degrade enemy combat aircraft and air fighting ability. Destroy C3M, SIGINT, and communications bunkers.
(A lot of combined air ops which can be fun mixing in MKI's and F-35s)

15. Race Against The Clock
Indian forces are closing in rapidly on the last holdouts of Pakistani resistance. The fighting has been brutal, with thousands of casualties on both sides. China has withdrawn the majority of their forces, however aircraft are still based at Pakistani airbases to support the dwindling Pakistani Army.
The war is nearing a close, with a clear Indian victory in sight. Pakistan has stated that they will fight to the end through whatever means necessary, including a nuclear option. Every world power has strongly denounced this option and the United Nations are frantically attempting peace negotiations, but neither India nor Pakistan are interested in anything short of complete victory.
Situation
Intelligence has intercepted Pakistani orders stating that a full scale last ditch nuclear attack against India is likely to take place within the next few hours. All aircraft are to be diverted to eliminate all launchers immediately.
Mission
Eliminate all Hatf 6 and Hatf 7 launchers or intercept all inbound nuclear strikes


And essentially that is that - rather good start turned to usual gung ho ops but also has some realistic base into where the alliances are drawn. The assumption however that the nuclear threshold is right near Islamabad's loss is in my view a glaring mistake along with several others in terms of how the conflict would escalate. However, one thing is very clear that the Saudi-Indonesia support may not be coming at all. If anything, the Chinese may send aircraft and retired pilots as the resources dwindle but I don't foresee it going beyond 3 weeks and especially that Mountain alliance (some ambulation of PTM, TTP, FC and who?) isn't likely at all but a good thought to understand how the assumption to degrade Pakistan lies.

here is my take on the first post for all its worth.

Border skirmish.



it seems that the plot is taken from American war in Afghanistan from early years,

the scenario suggests that the insurgents are also fighting Pakistani forces as well but their main focus is on the Indian forces. they attack and then retreat back into Pakistani territory, much like the early 2000s where Americans used to complain that Afghan Taliban were operating from Waziristan and attacked coalition forces across the border in Afghanistan and retreated back into Pakistan.



what is the basis of this premise? have the insurgents become hostile towards Pakistan too? the armed struggle has been historically only against Indian occupation. the fully Independent Kashmir sentiment exists in Pakistani administered Kashmir but it is only restricted to verbal opposition and mild procession. it has never been violent. I don't understand why are insurgents attacking Pakistani forces? does the plot assume that Pakistani forces are compelled by UN resolution or somehow a TTP version of Kashmir has come into being that has decided to fight Pakistan.



moving on. the Indians are reported to have made two incursions into Pakistan without "consequences" this seems like the plot taken from the Indian movie Uri and the so called surgical strike of Balakot.







Fight One





result (to keep in mind)

3 Indian FOBs destroyed

SAM sites destroyed

Radars in the region out of service



Fight two

India to target PAF (bases and assets)



it appears that the Indian mission is considered a success. in this case India should have complete air domination and PAF back must be broken. the playout assumes that it is achieved despite PAF taking out Indian air defence targets and was in state of high alert. was it overwhelmed by the multipronged onslaught by 126 assets (mix of support and attack crafts unknown). obviously it leads to invasion/ incursion into Pakistan by Indian land forces without much risk from PAF retaliation. it seems that the outcome is already agreed by the think tank that India must be final winner.



the mountain alliance and leading conflict is thrown in a s a good measure by the think tank to explain stretching of Pak military resources. this shows ignorance on part of the writers about the reality of northern areas and Azad Kashmir that is staunch supporter of Pakistan.



the claim about "rebels" siezing control of Pakistan strategic missiles and moving them all the way to the mountains also seems inspired from the trick where the clothes of the characters in Indian movies suddenly change with a dance number.



Fight in the south and Seas


No further comment there because a stunning victory is handed over to India with almost complete destruction of Pakistan naval forces.

if the nuclear threshold was not crossed before already then it was now or never when the think tank's plot (Indian ships) started sinking Pakistani ships enjoying without any mention of loss due to plot armor. another Indian dance / song number is in order.





Chinese active involvement

I agree with your assessment. nothing much to add to this. Indians must not only be pushed back to their borders but also suffer substantial losses that can potentially cripple their campaign.



American participation and Indian victory

this is where the scenario goes to the comic level which should give a hard on to any worthy Indian internet warrior.





My commentary



the scenario assumed that both countries continued to fight on all fronts for weeks inflicting heavy losses and then a cheat is applied against Pakistan through "defection" and formation of mountain alliance. Indians are awarded unqualified victories and Pakistan is banned by the authors to use conventional or nuclear tectical missiles against the Indian formations which has gain prominence in the Pakistani response to Indian cold start doctrine.



in short if Pakistani side can address the following then it can swing the result to its favor (while the think tanks are not looking )

  1. prevent the Mountain alliance from forming
  2. after degrading Indian air defences in its first retaliatory strike, don't sit back to see all its bases destroyed by IAF but follow up with pre-emptive attacks to force IAF in complete defensive position.
  3. avoid direct or indirect confrontation with America (even if it suits Indians, lock up all fumbling idiot Pakistani generals in the toilet for good measure until Americans are gone). offer free corridor for Americans to leave India safely. halt all air operations while American citizens are being flown out so that Indians cant play the "spice jet" episode (where an Indian commercial airliner was deliberately given a military sounding call sign causing PAF to shoot it down in error ).
  4. meanwhile use any indirect help from Turkey (missed by authors), China and KSA.
  5. threaten with immanent nuclear strike on Indian forces if they dont remain on their side of borders along Lahore and Bahalpur area etc.

the outcome of this conflict depends on the following. India has men and martial advantage but as an invader it needs much more. whereas Pakistan is sufficient from defensive point of view



war stamina

economic sustainability

military power

supplies

public / political mood

international support

nuclear threshold



an all out conflict cant last for more than few weeks and has to come to an end due to international involvement (diplomatic/ economic) to avoid crossing the nuclear threshold.
 

Waqas

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So let me get this straight, Indian Army just steps foot inside Pakistan and half the Pak Army defects to the mountain alliance like really? and wtf is even a mountain alliance? and this "simulation" was based after consulting with real strategists and analysts, and this guy got 7 positive ratings for posting this garbage UNBELIEVABLE.
 

mqur1963

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WELL WAAR IS COMING VERY SOON VERY SOON IT START OUT OF NO WEAR WATCH MY WORD.
BY 2023 THIRD TEMPLE HAVE TO START BUILDING . SO PAKISTAN HAS TO BE WIPE OUT AS PER ZIONIST

THEY ARE PLAYING THER GAME ''ALLAH 'IS PLAYING TO AND WINNER IS ALLAH'
 

SQ8

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So let me get this straight, Indian Army just steps foot inside Pakistan and half the Pak Army defects to the mountain alliance like really? and wtf is even a mountain alliance? and this "simulation" was based after consulting with real strategists and analysts, and this guy got 7 positive ratings for posting this garbage UNBELIEVABLE.
Yes - must be popular guy considering he actually talked on how ridiculous this was. I suggest you stay as far as you can from this garbage
@SQ8 you could rename the 'Mountain Alliance' the 'Islamic Emirate of Khurasan'

Do it. You know you want to. Zaid Hamid endorses this message.
It is rather spurious how they came up with this massive insurgency - but, I have the material I need from members to build a “right scenariol and will post it by 18th or 19th.
video and all
 

Chacha_Facebooka

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Dude. Skirmishes happen all the time. If a full blown war ever starts, it will be over in an hour. City populations will immediately die. Folks in rural area will follow due to radiation. Death of crops will cause a worldwide famine causing even more deaths.
 

arjunk

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Amateurs talk about strategy and tactics. Professionals talk about logistics and sustainability in warfare
Pakistani cities, industries, and other resources are mostly within 150km of the Indian border. This is especially true in North Punjab/Kashmir areas. North Punjab also has the densest road and rail network in the country. Pakistani cities and towns can inflict large amounts of damage on an occupying army because the population is heavily armed. Bringing ammunition and resources to the frontlines is not a problem.

On the other hand, the same cannot be said for India. Logistics and sustainability have always been a problem for them. During Brasstacks and 2001-2002, the Pakistan Army mobilised far faster than their Indian counterparts and at a fraction of the cost. Even in 2019, they were videos of Indian tanks getting stuck in crappy roads while moving to the Pakistan border.
 

notorious_eagle

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Can we add MRLS (A100 ) and artillery for engagement and channeling of armor columns into kill zone(s)?

Also the same can be used in addition to air elements to soften the FOBs if with range (120km).
Good Points. The addition of Armor, Artillery and MRLS is essential to build a credible scenario for this exercise.

The IA had a huge advantage in the face of Smerch. They could hammer PA Armored formation being mobilized to meet the IA Armored thrust without the risk of counter battery. This advantage was eliminated when the A-100's were procured in sizable numbers.

PA and IA war-planners do expect major artillery and armored duels between both sides. Majority of the casualties suffered by both the Soviets and the Nazis were from artillery fire. I would expect both Pakistan and India, peer level enemies to use artillery to deadly effect to not only support Armored thrusts but also inflict punitive losses on each other.
 

Bilal.

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Good Points. The addition of Armor, Artillery and MRLS is essential to build a credible scenario for this exercise.

The IA had a huge advantage in the face of Smerch. They could hammer PA Armored formation being mobilized to meet the IA Armored thrust without the risk of counter battery. This advantage was eliminated when the A-100's were procured in sizable numbers.

PA and IA war-planners do expect major artillery and armored duels between both sides. Majority of the casualties suffered by both the Soviets and the Nazis were from artillery fire. I would expect both Pakistan and India, peer level enemies to use artillery to deadly effect to not only support Armored thrusts but also inflict punitive losses on each other.
And with extended range afforded by the new MRLS and the proximity of many FOBs, brigade command, etc. they can actually carry out strikes beyond the battlefield and into the command nodes, logistics and support infrastructure.
 
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