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Military Balance of Turkish & Hellenic Air Forces in the Region

MMM-E

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Military Balance of Turkish & Hellenic Air Forces in the Region



The tension between Turkiye and Greece in the Eastern Mediterranean has escalated rapidly in recent days. When the sea and airspace problems from the past were added to the maritime jurisdiction problem, the situation became even more critical.



Hellenic Air Force Strength

According to open sources, the Hellenic Air Force operates 229 combat aircraft including

32 F-16C/D Block 30
38 F-16C/D Block 50
54 F-16C/D Block 52+
30 F-16C/D Block 52+ Advanced
18 Mirage 2000BG/EG
24 Mirage 2000-5 BG/EG
33 F-4E AUP

These Aircrafts are deployed to 6 main bases (Larissa, Nea Aghialos, Souda, Araxos, Andravida, and Tanagra) and 3 forward bases (Skyros, Lemnos and Kastelli)



24 RAFALE on order

The Tanagra Air Base in Greece is new home of the Rafale Fighter Jets
And the entire fleet will be deployed at Tanagra Air Base by the summer of 2023

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84 F-16 Block70 modernization until 2028

In 2017, Greece started the FMS (Foreign Military Sales) process with the USA to upgrade its 84 F-16C/D Block 52+/52+ Advanced to the F-16V "Viper" level until 2028

-- AN/APG-83 SABR AESA Radar
-- Data link
-- Electronic Warfare System
-- Helmet-mounted display system (JHMCS II)

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Early Warning and Command Control Aircraft

4 Embraer EMB-145H AEWCs
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Network Centric Warfare

Greece has only 30 F-16 Block 52+ Advanced Jets with this capability. while Turkiye has 163+29+35 F-16s with this capability

until 2028 , 84 F-16 block70 modernized Jets will have this capability with Link-16 TDL


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Turkish Air Force Strength

According to open sources, the Turkish Air Force operates 266 combat aircraft, including

36 F-16C/D Block 30
100 F-16C/D Block 40
71 F-16C/D Block 50
29 F-16C/D Block 50+
30 (+/-) F-4E/2020.

These aircraft are deployed to 6 main bases ( Eskişehir, Konya, Merzifon, Bandırma, Diyarbakır and Balıkesir ) and 2 forward bases ( Dalaman ve Malatya )


163 F-16 CCIP Modernization .. ( F-16 block52 standard )

CCIP Modernization for 163 F-16C/D block52 standard ( $3,9 billion ) between 2010 and 2015

AN/APG-68(V)9 Radar
Link-16 System
Self-Protection Electronic Warfare Suite (SPEWS II)
Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing Systems (JHMCS)
AN/AVS-9 Night Vision Goggles (NVG)
Modular Mission Computer
Advanced interrogator/transponder
Integrated precision navigation
LCD Color MFDs
Improved AVTR System
Multifunctional Information Distribution System
High speed Anti-Radar Missile Targeting System

AIM-9x air to air Missile
AIM-120C7 air to air Missile

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35 F-16 OZGUR Modernization .. ( F-16 block70 standard )

It is aimed to equip 35 F-16 Block 30 Fighter Jets with a unique mission computer with national avionics and national OFP software


-- The service life of F-16 Block 30 extended from 8.000 hours to 12.000 hours
-- National Friend-Foe Identification (IFF) System
-- National AESA Radar MURAD
-- National Mission Computer
-- Multifunction Cockpit Center Display Active Matrix Liquid Crystal Display
-- Fuel Hydraulic Gauge
-- Inertial Navigation System
-- Engine Indicator Display
-- National Sound Safety Device

to use all Turkish Missiles and Guided Bombs
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40 new F-16 block70

79 F-16 modernization to the Viper standard


The Turkish Ministry of Defense sent a Letter of Request (LoR) to the American government for the acquisition of 40 new F-16C/D Block 70 Viper Fighter Jets as well as the modernization of a total of 80 existing Turkish F-16s to the Viper standard


-- 40 new F-16 block70
-- 79 F-16 modernization to the Viper standard

F-16 Block70

-- APG-83 AESA Radar
-- New avionics architecture
-- New mission computer and electronic warfare suite
-- The new Center Pedestal Display (CPD)
-- Automatic Ground Collision Avoidance System (Auto GCAS)
-- The Night Vision Imaging System
-- The Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing System II
-- SNIPER Advanced Targeting Pod
-- IRST (Infrared Search and Track)
-- Conformal fuel tanks
-- Extended structural service life of 12,000 hours
-- General Electric F110-GE-132 Engine rated at 32,500 lbf (144 kN) of afterburning thrust

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The Eurofighter Typhoon option was first time officially mentioned by Presidential Spokesperson İbrahim Kalın on Sep 25, 2022

Turkiye has brought up the purchase of Eurofighter Typhoon jets, which will not draw any reaction from the NATO against the possibility of the USA's F-16 block70 sale not being realized.


Eurofighter Typhoon

Captor-E AESA Radar
IRST
METEOR Air to Air Missile

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KIZILELMA unmanned stealth Fighter Jet

First flight : 2023
In service : 2025

Lenght : 14.7 m
Wingspan : 10 m
Height : 3.3 m

Endurance : 5 Hours
Combat radius : 500 nm
Service ceiling : 35,000 - 45.000 ft
Cruise speed : mach 0,6 - 0,9 ... ( supersonic variant mach 1,4 )
MTOW: 6000 kg
Payload : 1.500 kg

Engine : 1x AI-25TLT .... 1x AI--322F turbofan

-- AESA Radar , EOTS , sensor fusion
-- Stealth design
-- Internal weapon stations
-- Stealth flight capability
-- The ability to hide from Radars
-- Aggressive maneuverability with delta canard and vertical stabilizers
-- Smart fleet autonomy equipped with artificial intelligence

-- SATCOM + 3 redundant LOS
-- Independent navigation
-- Operational capability from TCG ANADOLU light Aircraft Carrier

to carry 100+ km GOKDOGAN air to air missiles in the Internal weapon stations for stealth flight capability in BVR combat
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S400 Air Defense System

Radar range : 600 km
Firing range : 380 km 40N6E missile and 250 km 48N6E3 missile
Altitude : 30 km
Speed : mach 3.5 and mach 5,9

Turkiye bought 36 launchers with 192 missiles
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Early Warning and Command Control Aircraft
Network Centric Warfare


4 Boeing E-7T AEWCs can provide a "big picture" of both the airspace and maritime environment and transfer it to the relevant command centers via Link-16 Tactical Data Link

Turkiye's most significant advantage in terms of Airborne Early Warning is the 163+29+35 F-16s with Link-16 TDL capability, while Greece has only 30 F-16 Block 52+ Advanced aircraft with this capability

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MMM-E

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RADAR Network

Fixed radars are relatively easy to destroy because their locations are known, so mobile radars and airborne early warning aircraft are used as a precaution

The E-7T AEWC can provide a "big picture" of both the airspace and maritime environment and transfer it to the relevant command centers via Link-16 Tactical Data Link.

Turkiye's most significant advantage in terms of Airborne Early Warning is the 163+29+35 F-16s with Link-16 TDL capability, while Greece has only 30 F-16 Block 52+ Advanced aircraft with this capability


The E-7T AEW&C can detect the enemy aircraft and hostile air defense systems with its radar and Electronic Support system and transmit this information to friendly elements via the Link-16 TDL. In this way, Turkish F-16 pilot can see the position of enemy elements even if they are out of radar range and commence an attack or evasive maneuver according to this information.
 

Foinikas

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AGAIN?!!

@waz @LeGenD @Amaa'n @Irfan Baloch @PakSword @jaibi @Hyde @BHarwana



This is just spam guys! He's just flexing again. He posted a Turkey vs Greece thread a few months ago and a similar one again,a few weeks ago. And now this. It's the same threads recycled again and again,just different titles.

He keeps posting them to flex and boast about Turkish "superiority",not to actually have a dialogue.

Will this stop at some point? Why do you guys let him go on and on with this? It's clearly spam.
 

MMM-E

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Electronic Warfare


Greece : NO
Turkiye : KORAL , REDET-II and HAVASOJ


Another issue experienced in these operations was the effectiveness of land-air based Electronic Attack Systems.

The Turkish Air Force has placed great importance on Electronic Warfare for many years and has invested in equipment in this regard


KORAL and REDET-II Radar Electronic Warfare Systems
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HAVASOJ Stand-Off Jammer .. Shadow Project


Remote Electronic Support and Electronic Attack (ED / ET) capability project (HAVASOJ - Air Stand Off Jammer) in the air platform

Airborne SOJ will be produced for the purpose of detecting and diagnosing enemy communicationsystems and radars (air defense, early warning, etc.)

finding their location, and mixing and deceiving these systems in order not to use them against friendly elements, especially in cross-border operations

4 Aircrafts will be delivered to the Turkish Air Force ... based on Bombardier Global 6000
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This level of capability exists in very few countries in the world. In our region, we can say that only Israel has this capability.
 
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MMM-E

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Aerial Refueling Capability


Greece : NO
Turkiye : 7 Boeing KC-135


During the Kosovo and Bosnian Wars, the Turkish Air Force conducted 10,626 sorties for a total of 30,647 hours and performed extensive aerial refueling. With the agreement made in 1994 to bring this capability to the Turkish Air Force, the decision was made to purchase 7 KC-135A tanker Aircrafts

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TurAF F-16s , E-7T AEWCs will be able to refuel without returning to their bases and continue to stay in the region and perform their duties


on the other hand , Their closest base to the region is Souda in Crete.
The Hellenic Air Force which does not have AAR capability to operate in the Eastern Mediterranean
 

MMM-E

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Regional Superiority



In a possible conflict, the size (depth) of its area is advantageous for Turkiye

Air Bases , Jet Hangars in Greece and Greek Islands are in range of Turkish Ballistic - Cruise Missiles and Kamikaze Drones

J600T
BORA
SOM
ATMACA-K
KARGI
KGK / KGK-LR

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MMM-E

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Turkiye doesnt need useless Greece

Turkiye just protect its rights from bandit USA-France and their puppet Greece who wants to steal oil-gas reserves and 150.000 km2 of area from the Turks in the Eastern Mediterranean
 

MMM-E

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Joint Operation Capability


Greece : NO
Turkiye : YES


The first is the importance of Joint Operations, and the other is how vital Aerial Refueling capability is.

The Turkish Air Force is actually quite experienced with Joint Operations

Joint Operations training to improve the coordination between various aircraft during different types of missions.

This capability bore fruit in later operations. Thanks to AKEM extensive training in Konya , up to a hundred aircraft operated simultaneously without any coordination problems in a considerably small area during the cross-border operations.

E7T AEWC , KC-135 Tankers and 72 Turkish F-16s destroyed 104 of 105 terror targets in Afrin/Syria at the same time during operation Olive Branch

This level of capability exists in very few countries in the world. In our region, we can say that only Israel and Turkiye have this capability.
 

MMM-E

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USA wants to turn Turkish Air Force into another İranian Air Force



Turkiye joined F35 JSF program in 2002 to replace F-4 fleet and 35 F-16 block30s with 100 F-35A until 2030


The first F-35A destined for the Turkish Air Force made its maiden flight on may 10 , 2018

but USA blocked sale of 100 F-35A to Turkiye in 2019

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The United States that own F-35s fear the radar on the Russian S-400 missile system will learn how to spot and track the jet, making it less able to evade Russian weapons


F-35 is newest stealth technology but what about F-16V ?

USA also block sale of F-16V to Turkiye ... F-16V is nothing to do with S400

-- Political decision by USA
-- Israel doesnt want a muslim Country with F-35 5th gen Fighter Jet


Turkiye : We wants to buy PATRIOT
USA : No

and Turkiye bought S400 from Russia

Turkiye : İf No F-35 , then we wants to buy F-16V
USA : No

What a treacherous and unreliable Country ...
 

MMM-E

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The Eurofighter Typhoon option was first time officially mentioned by Presidential Spokesperson İbrahim Kalın on Sep 23, 2022



Turkiye has brought up the purchase of Eurofighter Typhoon jets, which will not draw any reaction from the NATO against the possibility of the USA's F-16 block70 sale not being realized.

İbrahim Kalın, Turkiye's presidential spokesperson, confirmed the previously reported plan, telling local NTV news channel on 23 September, “We have negotiations with Europe regarding Eurofighter . Turkiye will never be without alternatives.”


Eurofighter Typhoon

Captor-E AESA Radar
IRST
METEOR Air to Air Missile

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Turkish Defense Minister Hulusi Akar met with British Defense Minister Ben Wallace in London yesterday .. 06.10.2022

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Eurofiighter
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sami_1

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The criteria for comparing forces and military balance do not depend on personal whims or dreams, on multiple criteria

Including equipment

Training

Leadership ability, strategic planning and achieving goals

Alliances between countries and ease of flow of equipment, ammunition and spare parts

The Greek Air Force has great advantages

The age of the Greek F-16 fighters is smaller than the Turkish F-16 fighters 10 years

The program to develop 83 + 38 Greek F-16 aircraft for the F-16 BLOCK 72 level The first two planes have already been received, and by the end of the year Greece will have received 6 planes, the rate of delivery is 12 fighters annually and will increase with the contract of 38 additional Greek planes

The Turks are in a state of negotiations and until this moment Greece has succeeded in pressuring America not to agree to Turkey's purchase of 40 F-16 Block 72 aircraft for Turkey, as well as refusing to develop another 80 aircraft to this level.

https://www.aviacionline.com/2022/0...sted-to-purchase-up-to-40-f-35-lightning-iis/

Greece is in advanced negotiations to buy and deliver 20+20 F-35 aircraft, while Turkey has been expelled from the program
Rather, Greece requests its entry as a partner and benefit from the F-35 program, whether by supplying components manufactured in Greece for the benefit of the program or participating in it as an industrial partner.

Qatar and the United Arab Emirates are in tentative negotiations to supply 12 Qatari Mirage-2000-5 aircraft and 24 UAE Mirage-2000/9 aircraft to replace 35 F-4E aircraft.

We are talking about reality, not dreams
By the end of the year, Greece owns 12 fighters equipped with AESA radars, and receives new munitions from the United States and France, which increases monthly with the deliveries of upgraded or new aircraft.

Also, the speed of implementation of the Greek contract for the F-35 aircraft will be faster than any Turkish contract, since the Greeks are faster in completing the contract for the F-35 than any Turkish negotiations with international suppliers
The Turks are between dreams, illusions and negotiations, even to buy TYPHOON. Any calculations of military capabilities do not depend on future predictions. We are not here on an entertainment program or flirting with the imagination of some

Greece signed contracts for the purchase of 10 M346 planes, and therefore the rapid delivery will take place, as the Turks have a program of planes that have not flown yet and need years. Therefore, Greece's delivery of the contracted planes will be at least two years early than Turkey's receipt of any plane

The experience of the Greeks is better in piloting AEW planes by years than us for the Turks, whose program was delayed by 10 years

Greece signed a contract for the development of 45 T-6C aircraft to confront and hunt Turkish drones, as well as Greek fighters and air defense systems

The Greek Air Defense Force owns the air defense systems many years before Turkey, therefore Greece has good experience in this matter, in addition to the Greek continuous development program

The Turks had Nike Hercules systems, which were replaced by 24 HAWK systems, which were hit and destroyed 3-6 HAWK batteries at the Libyan Al-Wattia base
The Turks bought 4 S-400 batteries, and they are negotiating 2-4 more batteries. The effectiveness of the Russian systems in Turkey and even their activation is still a path of doubt
The basis, especially that Turkey relies on the Patriot systems that NATO put in its bases in Turkey 28, and the use of the Turkish F-16 fleet in the field of protecting the airspace due to the weakness of the Turkish Air Defense Force

Coming to the training point, the Turks overthrew the commanders of the air force and 300 Turkish women and asked for the support of the Pakistanis in managing the Turkish F-16 fleet and the pilots to fill the gap created by the expulsion of Turkish pilots and former air force commanders

This is the cause of a disaster because the building of your professional leader for managing air currencies and strategic planners is leaving you with an accumulation of experiences that may reach 15-25 years, and the Turks have already overthrown them. Consequently, they have not been put in the leadership by leaders without experience and whose competence is questionable in the first place.
Reliance on the Pakistanis in the supposed air battles against the Greeks is questionable

The Qataris are getting close to NATO and want to sign the sale of gas for a period of 25 years to Europe instead of China, which makes the Qataris away from provoking any problems or provoking Europe and Greece, and France will not allow the use of the Qatari Rafale plane in any air clashes against Greece

This is what leads us to the point of alliances, the strength of Greek-American relations, ignorant, they impose on the Turks conditions not to use F-16 planes against Greece, that is, against any Turkish ambitions

The Americans were the ones who sold Greece 70 OH-58D aircraft, as well as 1,200 armored vehicles to protect the Greek islands from any Turkish aggression. Therefore, America will be among the countries that will stand against the Turks
The same thing, France, Italy, Germany, they are all against Turkish ambitions, and this puts the Turks in a dilemma

In Greece, Egyptian F-16 fighters and Saudi F-15SA planes are stationed within joint defense agreements, meaning that the Greek Air Force’s capabilities will be increased by using what is already available from Saudi and Egyptian fighters and pilots in Greece. This must be taken into account.
The ease of flow of various fighters, ammunition and spare parts from Europe and Egypt to Greece is known to all and does not even need to be mentioned

The Turkish alliances, whether Azerbaijan or Pakistan, will not offer anything to Turkey because they themselves have a shortage of fighters and do not see antagonizing Europe for Turkey, and because Pakistan's intervention will also make India support in return for the Greeks

Simply the Greek alliances with Egypt facilitate the flow of systems such as the MLRS & n WS-2D from Egypt to Greece, and this is normal if there are Egyptian F-16 fighters in Greece and various missiles from Egyptian stocks, and the same Saudi Arabia, which has one or two Greek Patriot batteries, and in return there are F- 15SA in Greek air bases, and the same thing is the stocks of unmanned aircraft that will be made available to Greece immediately

Alliances are not only limited to weapons and their supply during clashes, but also transfer intelligence information about the common enemy to all, which makes the army an open book for other countries participating in the conflict

Leadership, experience, accumulation and possession

We came to an important point in building a professional commander or high-ranking officer capable of managing comprehensive air battles. Requires 15-25 years of experience The Turks simply overthrew their leadership in 2016, as well as the next 300 pilots. What is available in Turkey is junior leaders and pilots with almost no experience. While stability for the Greeks provided them with more experienced and more professional leaders, the Turkish pilots simply escaped from working in the Turkish Air Force simply because of their poor salaries, which always makes the lack of experience and competencies in the Turkish Air Force an essential matter for Turkey

Things are not as simple as some people think. It is a mixture between. We will have in the future. We are building air defense missile batteries with a range of 25 km. In the future, we will have a range of 150 km. We are talking about the present, not dreams, not the future. Calculations of military capabilities and strength depend on what is certain and not what is dreams because Dreams are located in bed, not real air battles Military balance is with real capabilities, but other than that, little children's dreams do not understand what you are saying

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Two Greek F-16 Block 72 fighter jets prepare for takeoff at Tanagra Air Force Base after the delivery ceremony. (AP Photo/Thanassis Stavrakis)
 
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MMM-E

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The age of the Greek F-16 fighters is smaller than the Turkish F-16 fighters 10 years


Only in your lies ...

REALITY

Hellenic Air Force
F-16 block30 : 1989-1990
F-16 block50 : 1997-1998
F-16 block52 : 2002-2010

Turkish Air Force
F-16 block30 : 1987-1990
F-16 block50 : 1996-1999
F-16 block50+ : 2011-2012

F-16 block40 : 1990-1994

And Turkiye spent $3,9 billion to modernize 163 F-16 block40/50 to block52 standard between 2011 and 2015
 
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