• Tuesday, June 2, 2020

Metaphysics of War

Discussion in 'Military History & Tactics' started by Desert Fox, Feb 28, 2018.

  1. Nefer

    Nefer FULL MEMBER

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    And that is the tricky part a bit. The knowledge I have are from Turkish sources but I will try.

    Mutezila was something which originated from deepening in into greek philosophy and applying it into Islamic knowledge, maybe also from persian theologic knowledge I am not sure about that.

    Esari was brought up as a response to Mutezila, because he thought they went to far, who was also educated among them. But his line of thought was in the opposite direction of Mutezila.

    Maturidi is a line of thought which has came further up north in semerkand who was in between Esari and Mutezila.
    Also the criticism from maturidi against mainstream branches were written with a harsh language while those who were not that mainstream he criticized them with a softer language. But also in comparison with the other 2 it had a more "Secular" approach to state and religion. Which might have to do with how Tatars and Turks go about in there business

    All 3 are off course from a person with that surname.

    Coming to

    Safi, Maliki, Hanafi and Hambeli.

    Maliki and Hambeli are both branches who are more for a literal interpretation and are heavily reliant on hadeeth but also these are something which iirc originated from medina. and thus the explanation of that reliance. To such a degree that the behavior of the medina people was seen as sunnah, because they grew up in the influence of the prophet.

    Hanafi is from a Bagdat region which is a multicultural region and was seen as the place of trouble. Since Hanafi is also far from Medina, he is also the one who also started with hadeeth filtering since at that time there was already doubt whether the the hadeeths which came to him were fabricated or not. Since he lived in a multicultural society he came across a number of problems not encountered before and thus was solving those and thinking of hypothetical problems to solve, which might happen at that time to the best of his knowledge. Also he was so to say inspired from the work of maturidi.

    Safi is branch which than in turn is somewhat between Hanafi and Malike/Hambeli.

    I know I am maybe botching it up a bit in the details, but this should be it in a nutshell. Where you can see that the territorial cultural somewhat affected how it developed.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2018
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  2. Desert Fox

    Desert Fox ELITE MEMBER

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    Full documentary is out. Made from a Libertarian perspective on the current Left-Right dichotomy in the West, and the rise of what historically have been known as "revolutionary" and "counter-revolutionary" or "reactionary" movements.

    Due to its Libertarian tinge can't say I agree with everything in this documentary. However I found the historical comparison with the events leading up to, and during, the Spanish civil war to be very interesting.


    @Nilgiri @Psychic @vostok @AUSTERLITZ @Nefer
     
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  3. Psychic

    Psychic SENIOR MEMBER

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    will watch later
     
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  4. Desert Fox

    Desert Fox ELITE MEMBER

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    The Greater War and the Lesser War


    Following excerpts are from Evola's essay The Greater War and the Lesser War, in Metaphysics of War.

    As a side note, it should be noted that Evola's understanding of Islam is through 20th century, and prior European (Western European to be precise) lens. This is not surprising considering that at the time these essays were written and published, non-European sources on Islam, particularly from Muslim authors were rarely translated into the major European languages, and if they were translated the work lost its original meaning in the translation where certain Arabic or Farsi words did not have equivalents in European languages and thus were substituted with whatever word came closest to the original meaning, and of course there were numerous mistranslations as well. Therefore it is understandable why such classifications and concepts unique to Europeans such as "Race" are used here in this essay by Evola despite in Islam the concept of "Race" is not something that was recognized or given any considerable importance, if at all. Also, the word Jihad which has been wrongly translated in the past as "holy war", or "war" actually means to struggle. Evola in this essay uses "war" instead of struggle because as mentioned before this was a mistranslation by Western scholars of the past. The Arabic word for war is Harb.




    In this essay Evola analyses the Islamic concept of war which divides into two categories:

    1) The Lesser War (Jihad al-Asghar)

    2) The Greater War (Jihad al-Akbar, also known as Jihad an-Nafs)


    The Lesser War

    "The lesser war here corresponds to the exoteric war, the bloody battle which is fought with material arms against the enemy, against the ‘barbarian’, against an inferior race over whom a superior right is claimed, or, finally, when the event is motivated by a religious justification, against the ‘infidel’."

    "No matter how terrible and tragic the events, no matter how huge the destruction, this war, metaphysically, still remains a ’lesser war’."

    80d50373d17da9141a43987a2ec546cf--warriors-wallpaper-weapons[1].jpg
    The Lesser War. Saracen vs. Crusader, Source.


    The Greater War

    "The ‘greater’ or ‘holy war’ is, contrarily, of the interior and intangible order – it is the war which is fought against the enemy, the ‘barbarian’, the ‘infidel’, whom everyone bears in himself, or whom everyone can see arising in himself on every occasion that he tries to subject his whole being to a spiritual law."

    "Appearing in the forms of craving, partiality, passion, instinctuality, weakness and inward cowardice, the enemy within the natural man must be vanquished, its resistance broken, chained and subjected to the spiritual man, this being the condition of reaching inner liberation, the ‘triumphant peace’ which allows one to participate in what is beyond both life and death."

    PicsArt_04-10-08.37.23.jpg


    Synthesis of the Lesser and the Greater

    Through the Greater War can one achieve heroism in the Lesser War:

    "After the distinction between the two types of war there is their synthesis. It is a feature of heroic traditions that they prescribe the ‘lesser war’, that is to say the real, bloody war, as an instrument in the realisation of the ‘greater’ or ‘holy war’; so much so that, finally, both become one and the same thing."

    "Thus, in Islam, ‘holy war’ – jihad – and ‘the path of God’ are interchangeable terms. The one who fights is on the ‘path of God’."

    "...[T]he predicaments, risks and ordeals peculiar to the events of war bring about an emergence of the inner ‘enemy’, which, in the forms of the instinct of self-preservation, cowardice, cruelty, pity and blind riotousness, arise as obstacles to be vanquished just as one fights the outer enemy"


    "...[T]he decisive point is constituted by one’s inner orientation, one’s unshakeable persistence in what is spiritual in this double struggle, so that an irresistible and blind changing of oneself into a sort of wild animal does not occur, but, instead, a way is found of not letting the deepest forces escape, a way of seeing to it that one is never overwhelmed inwardly, that one always remains supreme master of oneself, and, precisely because of this sovereignty, one remains able to affirm himself against every possible limitation."

    There is the account of the companion of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), wherein the companion, who is Hazrat Ali (RA), was in a physical struggle with an enemy soldier during a battle. As he knocked down the enemy combatant, he (Ali) raised his sword to slay him but before he could deliver the blow the enemy soldier spat on Ali's face, whereupon Ali dropped his weapon. The enemy combatant became astonished and asked Ali why he did not kill him, to which Ali replied (i'm paraphrasing) "had i killed you, i'd be doing it out of personal anger rather than for the sake of Allah." There are different variations of the same encounter but all of them convey the same lesson: self-control even in the midst of battle and fighting with pure intentions for a higher purpose.

    "...[A] mysterious way of intuiting, evoking and heroically resolving one’s own destiny in the intimate certainty that, when the ‘right intention’ is present, when all indolence and cowardice are vanquished, and the leap beyond the lives of oneself and others, beyond happiness and misfortune, is driven by a sense of spiritual destiny and a thirst for the absolute existence, then one has given birth to a force which will not be able to miss the supreme goal. Then the crisis of tragic and heroic death becomes an insignificant contingency which can be expressed, in religious terms, in the following words: ‘As for those who fight in the Way of Allah, He will not let their actions go astray. He will guide them and better their condition and He will admit them into the Garden which He has made known to them’ (47:4-6)."





    Unfortunately i could not find the above Nasheed with English subtitles but I did find this English version:


    @Psychic @Nilgiri @Nefer @AUSTERLITZ @vostok

    @dsr478 @war&peace @Ocean
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2018
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  5. Taimur Khurram

    Taimur Khurram ELITE MEMBER

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    Asalamu Alaikum

    Jihad an nafs is not the greater jihad, that viewpoint is based on daif ahadith.

    The best jihad is to resist tyrants, be it verbally or physically. This is the sahih opinion, based on sahih ahadith.
     
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  6. Desert Fox

    Desert Fox ELITE MEMBER

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    Walaikum Assalam

    I guess that depends on who you ask. Western scholars says that Jihad an-Nafs is the greater Jihad. Even Salafis in the West say that. Allahu Alim.

    I'm not here to get into the nitty-gritty disagreements between different interpretations or viewpoints. For the topics sake I think it's best to stick with consistency.
     
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  7. Taimur Khurram

    Taimur Khurram ELITE MEMBER

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    Yes, at the end of the day, both are important.
     
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  8. Desert Fox

    Desert Fox ELITE MEMBER

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    Just came across this interesting video on the origin of the Roman practice of Devotio, wherein the commander would sacrifice his life in battle to ensure victory of Rome over its enemies,
    believing this unleash powerful forces that guaranteed victory to the Roman armies.

    "...the Roman attributed the victory of his leadersless to their simply human attributes than to a transcendent force manifesting itself in a real and efficient manner through them, their heroism and sometimes their sacrifice."

    "...a warrior, and above all a chieftain, can facilitate victory by means of a mysterious unleashing of forces determined by the deliberate sacrifice of his own person, combined with the will not to come out of the fray alive."


     
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  9. Nilgiri

    Nilgiri BANNED

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    Yes I remember reading about this (more at Centurion level though) from firsthand accounts/journals during one of the Roman campaign in Dacia (modern Romania). There was a really high number of officer casualties (compared to general legionary) than any other Campaign...because of the great belief in the Roman empire and Emperor Trajan (I believe it was during his reign).

    I suppose as Rome started to fray, the concept extended higher and higher up to try to swing the results against the surmounting enemies encroaching.
     
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  10. jhungary

    jhungary MILITARY PROFESSIONAL

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    Remind me of a discussion when back when I was in University getting my MPhil.

    I met a German girl, whose grand father was a Nazi or Nazi supporter (I forgot which one) she told me about the view between democracy and Fascism and why people actually vote for Hitler back in 1930s. That discussion opened my eyes.

    In her view, the world need fascism, but not that kind that Hitler or Mussolini purported, Democracy is good only when the world is alright, but in times like national emergency, you need people who can choose and dictate term with the people, and most importantly at all, protectionism is needed in time of national crisis.

    I agree to a point but well, I understand where she come from and what is her background, I did not agree with most of her direction.

    Anyway, I have actually written something like the topic in my book (Yes, I have released a book about warfare quite some time ago) and maybe if I can find the original copy I typed in my computer, I will post them up here, I don't want to type all that word again.
     
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  11. Nilgiri

    Nilgiri BANNED

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    To me Fascism comes from Fasces which were the bundle of sticks that Roman Consuls (and I think Praetors too) carried (well their lictors/magistrates did anyway) in the Roman (republic) Senate (there were lictors in the Roman Kingdom too). This is the very basic definition.

    Essentially it seeks to investigate and always debate the sources and results of power...seeking to define and consolidate it (in full view of those under it, for society's net benefit). The opposite in practice would be Anarchists who seek to spread it and eradicate all power structures (but recognise the same overall issue openly - thus I can have a genuine debate with them). The biggest issue I have are the people that deflect and hide the conversation/debate of the formation, hierarchies and role of power (esp in a given status quo)...mostly because they themselves have vested interest in this activity....while they claim to be in favour of such words as "democracy" and "republic". Such people have gone and continue to go by many names and labels which I will not go into here (given they undermine even those theories).

    I consider myself more a Mosley kind of theoretician, the application in Italy and Germany pre-WW2 is a long debate in itself and definitely had many faults. It is interesting to note that Fascism is given only one chance to prove itself in the current (post WW2) Overton window, but we are led to believe continuously that more "politically correct" socialism/communism/marxism etc etc should be given as many chances as needed no matter how much they fail so openly again and again (and at significantly higher and protracted human cost). To me this naturally suggests which theories are more preferred by the elitists for the conservation of their elitism.

    @Desert Fox @Psychic
     
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  12. Desert Fox

    Desert Fox ELITE MEMBER

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    True, the name Fascist/Fascism comes from the fasces, a bundle of sticks tied together with the axe representing the authority of the state, having their origin in the Roman tradition, some sources say even older.

    Now what is historically judged as Fascism (Fascist Italy, Nazi Germany, etc.) should be better understood within the context of that era, the problems faced by those societies in particular where Fascist movements arose, and the circumstances that contributed to them.

    Most people look at that particular part of history and rush to judgement on these Fascist states or movements, but these same people will justify FDR's or Churchill's actions during that era (large government spending, intervention during the great depression, pushing for and initiating an unnecessary war that could have been avoided, etc.). Eventhough the actions of the former two undermined their own people's long term interests for the sake of economic and personal vested interests, whereas Fascism neither served Hitler's nor Mussolini's personal interests nor the interests of any particular vested economic group but rather the interests of the German and Italian nation against the problems faced by those societies.


    Also, Fascism is pragmatic and realistic in its worldview. Fascism does not attach itself to any specific economic system (like Liberalism & Communism) or to any limited abstraction, and that which does characterize it (if we look beyond the propaganda to defame it) is in fact nothing peculiar to it, but rather can be found in all classical civilizations, like organic hierarchy, a high regard for a warrior tradition, understanding life as more than just limited to the interest of any individual or class.

    Now of course this doesn't mean that Fascism as it manifested in Germany, Italy and other countries was without flaws. Of course not because humans are not flawless and certainly there is always room for improvement, and this understanding too is a part of the Fascist worldview, in fact it is the main philosophic basis for Fascism; that life is in continuous fluctuation and the struggle for improvement continues and that at no point will there ever be a utopian paradise.

    The only valid critique of Italian Fascism and German Nazism, that I'm aware of, is by Julius Evola not only because he lived under the Fascist regime and was acquainted with many of its higher-ups, but also because Evola is a genuine Right winger, a traditionalist who opposes Modernity in all its forms and not even Nazism nor Fascism as they manifested in the mid 20th century escaped his scrutiny, and this is fine because Fascism appreciates scrutiny because there will never be perfection and one method will never always work for all time and there is always room for improvement. Circumstances change, sometimes a little more liberty and freedom are necessary, other times they become toxic, but the central point remains that man's purpose is a transcendant and metaphysical one and not a worldly one and this should remain the goal, and society should be organized in a hierarchical order. This is unlike Liberalism and Communism, both are rigid theories, the first one attaches itself to the individual and claims that to be the be all-end all of everything. The latter claims historical materialism to be the explanation for the human condition and world history, both ideologies consider the relationship of individual(s) and material to be the final goal. But then what? Most developed countries have surpassed the basic material needs of the individuals in their societies. Why then do they fair lower on the happiness index compared to some developing countries? Why is the suicide rate so high in these countries? Why is their population on the decline, marriage institution destroyed and thus so is the institution of family without which no society or civilization can exist and will not survive in the long run? Why is mental sickness on the rise and more and more people visit counciling and therapy? Why are more and more people taking antidepressants?

    There are three books on Evola's view and critique of Fascism: Fascism Viewed from the Right, Notes on the Third Reich and A Traditionalist Confronts Fascism. All three are published and sold by Arktos publishing.

    Evola's critique is the only valid one because it is devoid of the cliche rhetoric of "Fascism ebil because muh democrazy, individualism, jooz and faggots" that one finds in mainstream books on Fascism. Because according to this narrative, democracy, jooz, faggots and individualism is what defines that era, and that is all we need to know, anymore inquiries and you're a "evil Nazi and Fascist who wants to gas people" and turn them into cleaning products.

    To give one example of Evola's critique of Nazism; Hitler was the center of the Third Reich, and that should he have been assassinated or even died of natural causes there would not be another man of his caliber to take his place because objectively speaking, and this is an accepted fact, Hitler was a unique individual the likes of which are born very rarely in human history in terms of his charisma, will-power and his leadership skills, and thus for this reason this was a major weakness in the National Socialist system and when Hitler committed suicide and Germany was defeated, the Third Reich died with him and unlike after WWI Germany could not recover after WWII.

    Now of course there were other factors involved as well for Germany's inability to rise again like being physically divided up and occupied by her conquerors, its entire generations being indoctrinated into self hatred, the promotion of nihilism, etc... all of which Evola acknowledges. But in place of this weakness a warrior aristocracy was necessary so as to reinforce the hierarchical order which Germany already had in the form of the Prussian aristocracy and its military tradition.

    For this reason Evola considers Italian Fascism to be superior to Nazism in the sense that it was less demagogic (though Hitler wasn't a demagogue, he did take extremely unpopular stances like on the issue of South Tyrol, and he made a valid argument for his position), although he has criticism for that particular system as well.

    "Fascism appears to us as a reconstructive revolution, in that it affirms an aristocratic and spiritual concept of the nation, as against both socialist and internationalist collectivism, and the democratic and demagogic notion of the nation. In addition, its scorn for the economic myth and its elevation of the nation in practice to the degree of 'warrior nation', marks positively the first degree of this reconstruction, which is to re-subordinate the values of the ancient castes of the 'merchants' and 'slaves' to the values of the immediately higher caste. The next step would be the spiritualization of the warrior principle itself" - Evola, Forms of Warlike Heroism, Metaphysics of War

    @Psychic @LeGenD @Metanoia @Sher Shah Awan @vostok
     
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  13. Hakikat ve Hikmet

    Hakikat ve Hikmet ELITE MEMBER

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    Elhamdulillah for the Turkish folks war is all physical, simple and straight forward!!!! You fight on and don't look at the losses!!! Few Turkish sayings in this regard:

    La Galibe Illallah (There is no VICTOR other than ALLAH)

    Expedition is from us, Victory is from ALLAH

    Every Turk is born as a soldier

    We are born at our homes, and we die at the battlefields

    The Turkish mothers use Henna on three occasions. They put Henna on lambs at the Eid-ul Adha, so that they become Kurban to Allah-u Azimushshan. They put Henna on the brides during the marriage ceremony, so that they become Kurban to their husbands. They put Henna on their sons while sending them to the Hearth of the Messenger (otherwise known as the Turk Ordu), so that they become Kurban to Vatan, Millet, Din etc.

    Don't expect a grave from me O martyred son of a martyr
    Waiting for you with open arms is the MESSENGER*
    *
    PBUH

    And, the ultimate objective for the war:
    So ripple and wave like the bright dawning sky, oh thou glorious crescent,
    So that our every last drop of blood may finally be blessed and worthy!
    Neither you nor my kin shall ever be extinguished!
    For freedom is the absolute right of my ever-free flag;
    For independence is the absolute right of my God-worshipping nation!
     
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