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Mechanised Divisions Pakistan Army

Goritoes

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Broken ground, water obstacles requiring bridging equipment, armour cannot oestrogen that much freely but has to adopt defined routes which makes it predictable.... And consequently easy for defender to site his defences....
So the Punjab region will be good for defending, while the Thar will be good for Aggressive push, and the Sand and dust rise from the tanks/APC movements can make a wall of dust fog that works as a camouflage correct?
 

Signalian

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Of course
Indian CSD is completely flawed and is more of a fantasy than reality. India plans to form 10-13 IBGs with about 5-6 inf/armd regts and 3 artillery regts plus supporting arms. That would mean about 7-8 thousand men per IBG. The drawbacks of CSD as conceived by me are :
1)Attainibilty of Objectives:
THe objectiv of CSD is to make shallow incursions of about 70-80 km deep but recent exercises have shown that the IA advanced at a rste of 10km per day. Now if we put them against a real enemy the rate would further decrease to atleast 5km. So 70-80km would require 2 weeks if everything went smoothly and they manage to catch us sleeping
2) Sustenance of objectives:
Even if we consider that IA was successful in making a 70-80km deep penetration even then it would be difficult to to sustain such a force of 13 IBGs not only logistically but those brigade groups would have to fight against the whole of PA before there main strike elements are mobilised.
3)Mindset of field Commanders:
The breed of IA officers that have been groomed according to CSD doctrine will have their aims limited only to the shallow penetrations and if a general war, which would surely, breaks out then they would find themselves in further exploiting their gains and drawing new plans to capture the New objectives that their seniors may assign them.
4) Limited number of IBGs:
only ten to 13 IBGs are being raised and some of them will be against china as well so if we take the amount of IBGs specially against PA to be 10 even then they might not be that much of trouble. They will just oversized brigades and until reinforced by their strike corps(which will tkae atleast 3 weeks) they would have to face the whole of PA.
5) Retreating:
GIven the fact that the initial objective of IBGS would be only 70-80km their commanders would not have that much flexibility especially at tactical level. They would not be able to make tactical retreats as their depth will be to shallow and if they start retreating then the whole op would be a failure.
6) Concentration of PA:
Again related to sustenance of Objective.Historically IA has tried to utilize its numbers by opening new fronts and sectors but in this case their brigade sized forces would be operating in a very limited area. On the other hand PA would be able to concentrate its forces against IBGs and obliterate them.
7)PAF:
Similarly, PAF would be able to concentrate its efforts especially related to CAS in few sectors and will be relieved of providing support to the whole of PA throughout Pakistan. Same goes for army AD and aviation.
8) Conservation of Strike elements of PA:
Recently many indp armd/mech bdes have sprung up in PA which can be used to tie down the IBGs in addition to holding corps while the strike corps can be preserved purely of offensive ops. And if the strike elements of PA are able to make successful attacks on India,IA would have to commit its strike elements against them and wouldn't be able to reinforce the IBGs.
9) Predictable avenues of Approach:
The areas and sectors going to be attacked by the IA can be predicted. The intelligence will also play an important role in this regard. Then, different obstacles/mines can be placed apart from the mobilisation of PA.
10)Last Nail in the Coffin of CSD:
Though I agree that CSD might have been useful between the period 2004-2017 while about 1/3 of our army was deployed in FATA in COIN ops but now we having been successfull in those ops have fully concentrated our efforts against IA. With the restructuring of FC the 11/12 corps are now available as reserves.
11)Condition of IA:
The lack of synergy between the Army and the IAF is one of the foremost concerns among the Indian planners. They are also lacking in spare parts and ammo. As of 2018 IA is also short of about 7000 officers. The lack of SP artillery and AD is also a concern. Induction of 100 k9s hasn't changed much, same goes for apaches as the PA will be able to concentrate its AD as explained above.
Also I don't understand why why the Indians compare CSD with blitzkrieg. They are two totally different concepts. I think that they consider anything involving amrour and inf in coordination with airforce as blitzkrieg.
@PanzerKiel @Signalian @Inception-06 and everyone else, feel free to criticize.
@PanzerKiel is gathering stuff from PDF to make presentations for Staff course :laugh: So @Desert Fox 1 keep bringing in scenarios that he can present as outdated in the first 5 slides of his presentation 😁
 

farooqbhai007

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Of course
Indian CSD is completely flawed and is more of a fantasy than reality. India plans to form 10-13 IBGs with about 5-6 inf/armd regts and 3 artillery regts plus supporting arms. That would mean about 7-8 thousand men per IBG. The drawbacks of CSD as conceived by me are :
1)Attainibilty of Objectives:
THe objectiv of CSD is to make shallow incursions of about 70-80 km deep but recent exercises have shown that the IA advanced at a rste of 10km per day. Now if we put them against a real enemy the rate would further decrease to atleast 5km. So 70-80km would require 2 weeks if everything went smoothly and they manage to catch us sleeping
2) Sustenance of objectives:
Even if we consider that IA was successful in making a 70-80km deep penetration even then it would be difficult to to sustain such a force of 13 IBGs not only logistically but those brigade groups would have to fight against the whole of PA before there main strike elements are mobilised.
3)Mindset of field Commanders:
The breed of IA officers that have been groomed according to CSD doctrine will have their aims limited only to the shallow penetrations and if a general war, which would surely, breaks out then they would find themselves in further exploiting their gains and drawing new plans to capture the New objectives that their seniors may assign them.
4) Limited number of IBGs:
only ten to 13 IBGs are being raised and some of them will be against china as well so if we take the amount of IBGs specially against PA to be 10 even then they might not be that much of trouble. They will just oversized brigades and until reinforced by their strike corps(which will tkae atleast 3 weeks) they would have to face the whole of PA.
5) Retreating:
GIven the fact that the initial objective of IBGS would be only 70-80km their commanders would not have that much flexibility especially at tactical level. They would not be able to make tactical retreats as their depth will be to shallow and if they start retreating then the whole op would be a failure.
6) Concentration of PA:
Again related to sustenance of Objective.Historically IA has tried to utilize its numbers by opening new fronts and sectors but in this case their brigade sized forces would be operating in a very limited area. On the other hand PA would be able to concentrate its forces against IBGs and obliterate them.
7)PAF:
Similarly, PAF would be able to concentrate its efforts especially related to CAS in few sectors and will be relieved of providing support to the whole of PA throughout Pakistan. Same goes for army AD and aviation.
8) Conservation of Strike elements of PA:
Recently many indp armd/mech bdes have sprung up in PA which can be used to tie down the IBGs in addition to holding corps while the strike corps can be preserved purely of offensive ops. And if the strike elements of PA are able to make successful attacks on India,IA would have to commit its strike elements against them and wouldn't be able to reinforce the IBGs.
9) Predictable avenues of Approach:
The areas and sectors going to be attacked by the IA can be predicted. The intelligence will also play an important role in this regard. Then, different obstacles/mines can be placed apart from the mobilisation of PA.
10)Last Nail in the Coffin of CSD:
Though I agree that CSD might have been useful between the period 2004-2017 while about 1/3 of our army was deployed in FATA in COIN ops but now we having been successfull in those ops have fully concentrated our efforts against IA. With the restructuring of FC the 11/12 corps are now available as reserves.
11)Condition of IA:
The lack of synergy between the Army and the IAF is one of the foremost concerns among the Indian planners. They are also lacking in spare parts and ammo. As of 2018 IA is also short of about 7000 officers. The lack of SP artillery and AD is also a concern. Induction of 100 k9s hasn't changed much, same goes for apaches as the PA will be able to concentrate its AD as explained above.
Also I don't understand why why the Indians compare CSD with blitzkrieg. They are two totally different concepts. I think that they consider anything involving amrour and inf in coordination with airforce as blitzkrieg.
@PanzerKiel @Signalian @Inception-06 and everyone else, feel free to criticize.
L doctorine hay , seedha seedha mrls & ground launched guided missiles/rockets zyada tadaad mey induct karo aur IA kay units ko unkay garrissons par pre-emptive strikes mey hit karo . takreeban all IA frontline assets < 200km range mey aajatay , pechay rah gayi baat large garrissons like Gwalior aur Jhansi ji to unko long range assets say hit karo , aram say problem solve , zaroorat hi nahi tankon ki
wesay bhi Indian strategic assets ka bura haal hai , brahmos TELs missile loading areas say on average 20km road distance door based hain , for the IA that is
 
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farooqbhai007

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sab kuch aik jagha thop detay , yaa itna dor rakthay kay frontlines phonchtay tak war hi over ho jayay , LOC par Pinaka regiment < 10km from border based hai ,aur rajsthan mey pinaka regiment ~480km from border based hai , and other than these they only have one more Pinaka reg for pak border , which i will find soooon ,
Smerch rockets kay case mey ambala wala ~250+km from border hain aur rajasthan walay ~480+km from nearest pointon border
 

Desert Fox 1

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Staff Course was a long time ago.... And if I would've followed @Desert Fox 1 data , then I would've been kicked out of the army.
@PanzerKiel sir,wait for the future...
@PanzerKiel is gathering stuff from PDF to make presentations for Staff course :laugh: So @Desert Fox 1 keep bringing in scenarios that he can present as outdated in the first 5 slides of his presentation 😁
Also,no problem, you can still consult me when doing war course. insha'Allah.😁😁
 

Inception-06

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But IBGs are for China

Net. You may search it on world cat. I searched and found that it was available in many libraries of many universities in England, including Oxford, and USA as well. You may give your zip code there and find a Library nearby having that book. Another book that I'd recommend is "On the Forward edge of battle." It will be easily available
Thanks for recommendations I ordered this all here:

8303188E-6A9E-45F4-A692-BD535F2E3C87.png
 

Desert Fox 1

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Thanks for recommendations I ordered this all here:

View attachment 722961
I thought that Men of Steel was unavailable on Amazon? Enjoy reading these books especially "On War". You couldn't have spent your money better
Lots of fu@ckups in the army.....desert fox should not feel let down or disheartened.
Rommel sir, I'm yet to apply for the army. About a year from now. But I'll keep it in mind
 
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Inception-06

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I thought that Men of Steel was unavailable on Amazon? Enjoy reading these books especially "On War". You couldn't have spent your money better

Rommel sir, I'm yet to apply for the army. About a year from now. But I'll keep it in mind
It was available once for 900€ and yesterday for only „100€“, it was not easy decision, when I was in 2019 in Faisalabad it was nightmare to find a good book shop which is well equipped. So decided now to buy it. Main objective is to understand and write better about armoured Corps of Pakistan Army.
 

Desert Fox 1

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@PanzerKiel sir, don't you think that the RRs were good direct support weapons (not as AT) at company level Because BSWS isn't as versatile while mortars are for indirect fire? Or has any other weapon been inducted?
Also is BSWS a company or a platoon level asset for all inf regts including SIBs?
 
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