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Manohar Lal Khattar on Gurgaon dispute: ‘Offering namaz in open will not be tolerated’

xeuss

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Come on brother, I have read your contributions here, I know you are better then this flippant reply, that avoids a concentrated discussion. I recognise my statement was very direct and raw, so I can understand the emotional reply.

I already apologised in my original statement and shall do it again, I am sorry, but sorry does not eliminate the facts of what I said. Unless and until you recognise the right arguments and build on those arguments you shall continue to suffer. You will suffer still, but at least you'll be fight the right fight. Indian Muslims have been oppressed for decades, you've only just decided to awaken yourself, but the next step has to be to build relevant arguments within the framework of an Indian identity, not one that is defined by the majority but your own arguments, based on honest and correct interpretations. What those interpretations are I do not know, I do not claim a higher ground, but from proper discussions, you reach proper conclusions. My point was those discussions are not happening among Muslims, not by a mile.

I love the Jewish people, lets not confuse Jewish people and Israel, that is an another discussion. But I love the Jewish people, they have suffered so much for centuries, but look at them, they argue and discuss into their graves, that is what creates strength, by willing to have open, honest and right discussions. Not by crying constitution and secularism until you lose you voice, already knowing those two war cry's have delivered nothing. It is time for a fresh debate among Muslims, till they do not do that, they shall have to accept part of the responsibility for their predicament.
I recognise it is a harsh judgement, but some things need to be said. I hope you recognise that only those who consider you as their own have the courage to be honest.

Fair enough - your thoughts are welcome.

Everyone has their thoughts on what Indian Muslims should do and what they should not do. The reality is that they should do anything and everything - there is never going to be one silver bullet that will solve all their problems.

What many people do not realize, especially those living in the west, where fairness and equality is well engrained within the psyche, that their advice will work well within their societies. We are dealing with a culture that thrives on discrimination and goes to any length to defend it. Look at the responses of people from this society on this thread. Did anyone even condemn it? No, they were happily defending it. They did not find anything wrong and are delighted with this behavior. This is a culture that takes pride in discriminating against the lower castes for 5000 years, and will do anything to continue this behavior for another 5000 years.

So while your advice may work within the British society you live in, you would have to live and experience Indian society before forming an opinion on what may work and what may not. Do you think that Indian Muslims have not taken pains to explain their "Indianness"? Heck, they even bad-mouthed Pakistan thinking that this may placate the murderous mobs. It never did and never does. Fascist societies are never placated.

Over the past 70 years, Indian Muslims were told:
- if you stop supporting Pakistan, the Hindus will not hate you
- if you stop speaking Urdu, the Hindus will not hate you
- if you get better educated, the Hindus will not hate you
- if you stop playing the azaan, the Hindus will not hate you
- if you stop eating beef, the Hindus will not hate you
- if you stop wearing a burqa or hijab, the Hindus will not hate you
- if you stop wearing a beard, the Hindus will not hate you
- if you stop wearing kurta pyjama, the Hindus will not hate you
- if you stop eating any meat, the Hindus will not hate you
Tell me - how has that worked out for Indian Muslims?

@SIPRA - responded as you requested.
 

xeuss

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jamahir

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Is the right to public prayer the only identity of a Muslim ? Is this the only philosophy of Islam according to Indian Muslims ? Is there no other cause for Indian Muslims to speak for and agitate for ?
 
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peagle

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Fair enough - your thoughts are welcome.

Everyone has their thoughts on what Indian Muslims should do and what they should not do. The reality is that they should do anything and everything - there is never going to be one silver bullet that will solve all their problems.

What many people do not realize, especially those living in the west, where fairness and equality is well engrained within the psyche, that their advice will work well within their societies. We are dealing with a culture that thrives on discrimination and goes to any length to defend it. Look at the responses of people from this society on this thread. Did anyone even condemn it? No, they were happily defending it. They did not find anything wrong and are delighted with this behavior. This is a culture that takes pride in discriminating against the lower castes for 5000 years, and will do anything to continue this behavior for another 5000 years.

So while your advice may work within the British society you live in, you would have to live and experience Indian society before forming an opinion on what may work and what may not. Do you think that Indian Muslims have not taken pains to explain their "Indianness"? Heck, they even bad-mouthed Pakistan thinking that this may placate the murderous mobs. It never did and never does. Fascist societies are never placated.

Over the past 70 years, Indian Muslims were told:
- if you stop supporting Pakistan, the Hindus will not hate you
- if you stop speaking Urdu, the Hindus will not hate you
- if you get better educated, the Hindus will not hate you
- if you stop playing the azaan, the Hindus will not hate you
- if you stop eating beef, the Hindus will not hate you
- if you stop wearing a burqa or hijab, the Hindus will not hate you
- if you stop wearing a beard, the Hindus will not hate you
- if you stop wearing kurta pyjama, the Hindus will not hate you
- if you stop eating any meat, the Hindus will not hate you
Tell me - how has that worked out for Indian Muslims?

@SIPRA - responded as you requested.

Sorry for late reply, was dealing with personal matters, all my notifications are switched off because I hate social media and only started some activity in the last year or so. The only time I get notifications are when I log-in.

You have started a discussion on your own, raised questions, provided a reply and given your own conclusions, all in a single statement.
And, you have assumed solutions provided by me, which I have not, you have assumed too much.

Surely you realise that does not make sense. If I raise an issue, then surely the responsible approach is to ask about my objections. I told you I have objections, but I never said what they were, so it was wrong to make your own assumptions, and provide your own conclusions, that's not a discussion. This is exactly the approach I was complaining about.

Those things you mentioned, the things to placate the Hindus, is exactly the retarded approach I was referring to.

If a Bengali can be a Indian by being a Hindu, and being proud of his/her Bengali language then why can't a Muslim be proud of being an Indian whilst being a Muslim and being proud of his Urdu heritage.

Tamils, Gujaratis, Marathas, Malayalis, Punjabis and so many others, are all proud of their cultural, religious and linguistic heritage whilst being Indian.

By allowing your identity to be wilted away, you have opened yourself to further attacks. When you bend over, most people think it is time to unzip, that's the problem with Indian Muslims, they have told the Hindu majority that you can unzip because our identity can be defined by you, that's the problem.

The point of a discussion is to discuss and find the weaknesses and strengths in your approach, you filter out issues and arrive at a solid conclusion. You cannot do that by providing a complete statement, include a conclusion right at the start and declare, see nothing can be done, that's an extremely poor approach.

Pakistan is not a secular country, but today, the minorities in Pakistan have multiple votes in elections. A man from a minority group has two votes, and a minority women has three votes, including the Hindu, Christian and Sikhs. Why? because they have fought for their rights, and because secularism is a lie. But, also because Pakistani society is more accepting. There are hardly any communal riots in Pakistan's 74 years history. You already know that in India there have been thousand of communal riots.

Find the lessons and adopt them into your approach, that is the only way forward. Now, if you wish to explore this topic, I am happy to to continue our discussion, but it has to be an open honest discussion. Pick a topic and take it to a conclusion.


@SIPRA
 

-=virus=-

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:lol: :lol: Do Hindus of Prayagraj plan to celebrate Diwali once ever week now? Wow let's celebrate Diwali every Wednesday 7:00 - 8:00 pm every week and take over roads and public places. How about 100 - 200 Hindus gathering in Muslim ghettos to celebrate Diwali every Wednesday, what say?
Every week ? How about 5 times a day, every day of the year and everywhere. :whistle:
 

GHALIB

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[QUOTE="xeuss, post: 13467916, member:

So they don't allow us to pray in our mosques, don't allow us to build new mosques, and now prevent us from praying.

This depraved society has no problem with lynching Muslims in the open.....no problem with defecating in the open....but a problem when a Muslim prays.

Let me be the first to say on this.....Jinnah was right!
[/QUOTE]
Stop propaganda ,
Nobody stops muslims from praying in mosque , there is no ban on building new mosques , lakhs of new maszids are coming up in india . hindus object large scale muslim gatherings regularly on open parks and govt lands in hindu areas . People fear about such places being marked for muslim prayer grounds after long usage for namaz in hindu area . Hindus and muslims land mafia both have utilized this trick to capture govt land for religious purpose , later they build commercial buildings along with mandirs and maszid .
 
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crankthatskunk

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India has to go back to what it was, small independent states , for the sake of humanity.
Otherwise these hateful dirty men would create a mess whole humanity had to clean.
India is already on last stages of genocide. When the world would wake up to this reality !!
 

GHALIB

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Fair enough - your thoughts are welcome.

Everyone has their thoughts on what Indian Muslims should do and what they should not do. The reality is that they should do anything and everything - there is never going to be one silver bullet that will solve all their problems.

What many people do not realize, especially those living in the west, where fairness and equality is well engrained within the psyche, that their advice will work well within their societies. We are dealing with a culture that thrives on discrimination and goes to any length to defend it. Look at the responses of people from this society on this thread. Did anyone even condemn it? No, they were happily defending it. They did not find anything wrong and are delighted with this behavior. This is a culture that takes pride in discriminating against the lower castes for 5000 years, and will do anything to continue this behavior for another 5000 years.

So while your advice may work within the British society you live in, you would have to live and experience Indian society before forming an opinion on what may work and what may not. Do you think that Indian Muslims have not taken pains to explain their "Indianness"? Heck, they even bad-mouthed Pakistan thinking that this may placate the murderous mobs. It never did and never does. Fascist societies are never placated.

Over the past 70 years, Indian Muslims were told:
- if you stop supporting Pakistan, the Hindus will not hate you
- if you stop speaking Urdu, the Hindus will not hate you
- if you get better educated, the Hindus will not hate you
- if you stop playing the azaan, the Hindus will not hate you
- if you stop eating beef, the Hindus will not hate you
- if you stop wearing a burqa or hijab, the Hindus will not hate you
- if you stop wearing a beard, the Hindus will not hate you
- if you stop wearing kurta pyjama, the Hindus will not hate you
- if you stop eating any meat, the Hindus will not hate you
Tell me - how has that worked out for Indian Muslims?

@SIPRA - responded as you requested.
Muslims ruled hindus by their islamic laws ,muslims divided india got their own muslim lands . hindus are better that they allowed muslims to live in their part of land allotted to them , they are giving equal rights to all provided by secular constitution of india.
 

peagle

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Muslims ruled hindus by their islamic laws ,muslims divided india got their own muslim lands . hindus are better that they allowed muslims to live in their part of land allotted to them , they are giving equal rights to all provided by secular constitution of india.

:rofl:
you're a nutcase living in your fantasies, talk about an idiotic mind-set.

There are so many stupidities in this statement, I'm surprised your brain did not melt when writing this rubbish.

Divided?
Islamic law?
Allotted land?
Secular constitution?

What the heck do these terms have anything to do with reality?
Get out of your Echo chamber called India, there is whole other reality called the real world.
 
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GHALIB

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:rofl:
you're a nutcase living in your fantasies, talk about an idiotic mind-set.

There are so many stupidities in this statement, I'm surprised your brain did not melt when writing this rubbish.

Divided?
Islamic law?
Allotted land?
Secular constitution?

What the heck do these terms have anything to do with reality?
Get out of your Eco chamber called India, there is whole other reality called the real world.

A Pakistani muslim can not understand how good hindus of india are (barring few religious zealots hindu and muslim both ). Indian muslims can't hate hindus , even after jinnah and muslims got their lands , hindus allowed muslims to live honorably in their part of divided india . Gave muslims respect and equal citizen status . Indian muslims know this fact very well that pakistanis are not friend of indian muslims , you just want widening of division among indians .
 

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