What's new

Mandela called Jinnah his hero

Myth_buster_1

BANNED
Mar 17, 2008
8,220
2
7,484
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
Read these two poems, they portray his feelings about British occupation quite well.


Poems seriously? So you think two "Poems" contributed in defeat of British Empire?

And like I said, he did not even utter a single word against British Empire. All he did was "passively" speak against "ghulamiyat" and thats it. He never directly spoke against British Empire. In fact he was given permission by British empire to do so, so he could stay relevant to muslim audience.

...Two years after the publication of the Secrets of the Self (1924 an English translation of Asrar-i Khudi by Reynold A. Nicholson of Cambridge University, the British Government, recognising his scholarship and poetic talent, knighted Iqbal.


Iqbal did not seek this honour and it came to him unsolicited. In this he was an exception because his other contemporaries, Mian Fazl-i Hussain, Sikandar Hayat Khan and Shaikh Abdul Qadir, had earned their Knighthood by sterling service to the colonial power.
Why would British empire bestow Knighthood to someone who does not even care? Do you know what you have to do to earn this title? Knighthood status is not something that British monarch just randomly gives someone. It is only given to someone who have served British interest. And he did by means of words that were according to British interest.

Here is a interesting post i found....

While the other answer is factually correct in stating that knighthood and the consequent “Sir” is given for some notable achievement in the field; the British Empire of the time usually recognised people from the Indian colonies who were “amenable” to their interests. So; in 1923 Iqbal was knighted by George V.

Even in present times; there are sometimes debates on why the Queen has made “X” individual a knight. At the time; due to the prevailing spirit of Indian nationalism; Iqbal was criticised by some Muslims and Hindus; and praised by a few. In his defence; the poet mentioned that he received the award for “literary” services.

In the same time period; after the brutal Jallianwala Bagh massacre in 1919; India’s first Nobel laureate Rabindranath Tagore had returned his knighthood in protest; and the nation was largely charmed by Gandhi and his movements.

Some critics were Iqbal’s friend Maulvi Alif Din Nafees; the journalist Abdul Majeed Salik, a Lahore “Hindu” newspaper Pratap; and a few other Maulanas. The time Iqbal had spent in England and Germany made him more amiable to Western ideas; even though he was a critic of colonialism and a Muslim ideologue like his predecessor Syed Ahmad who had also received a “knighthood” for services rendered to the Crown after the 1857 revolt and the collapse of the Mughal empire.

So my question to you is, did Iqbal turn down his Knighthood or "sir" status if he was so against British system?

Fazl-i Hussain’s and Sikandar Hayat’s entire career was spent in the service of the British rule. The apathy which existed between Iqbal and these two gentlemen was mainly attributable to this cause.
Again, no direct enmity towards British Empire instead just on individual level and that not even against the real goras.


The hostility between Iqbal and the British rulers is well port-rayed by Azim Hussain, Fazl-i Husain’s son.
On the authority of his father’s diaries, Azim Hussain tells us:


"In 1924 Fazl-i-Hussain urged Sir Malcolm Hailey to raise Iqbal to the Bench, but while the case was under consideration Dr. Iqbal alienated the sympathies of officials by unrestrained criticism of the Government. . . . On his [Iqbal’s] return to India (from the Round Table Conference), he severely criticized the work of the Muslim Delegation, a criticism greatly resented by the Secretary of State because it belittled the proceedings of the Conference."
I call this a perfect strategy to misguide people.
You let them speak against you a little bit so you can stay relevant to your target audience while serving your master's interest.
British empire did the same with Mirza Ghulam.... They let him debate goras and let him win countless debates which gained alot of support among locals because they thought Mirza is against British Raj but instead he was serving his master's interest whose goal was to spread false Islamic teachings.



The Viceroy was also appropriately angry and only reluctantly agreed to send Iqbal to the Round Table Conference. "While the Conference was in progress," writes Azim Hussain, "he [Iqbal] re-signed and returned to India, and denounced the British Government in the strongest possible terms in his address to the Muslim League at Allahbad."[7] Not surprisingly, therefore, the Viceroy refused to appoint Iqbal as member of the Public Service Commission or as Agent of India to South Africa.[8]
Muslim League was founded by British Empire and among its leaders were British loyalist like Aga Khan. So Sir Iqbal did not really act against British Government when he was in bed with them.

It is inconceivable that Iqbal could ever have come to terms with British rulers. He regarded slavery as the greatest misfortune that could befall a man, while a free man in his eyes was a "living miracle in himself".[9]

Perfect example of what you can stay to stay relevant among Muslim audience while being in bed with their system.


Look above. I have refuted this.
What you quoted above perfectly proves my point..

"He is a perfect example of what mirza ghulam ahmad was to British empire. They used "freedom of expression" as a tool to give local illusion that these leaders are truly against British rule. "


Conspiracy theory, nothing more.


Read this to correct your misconceptions.
LOL you actually shot yourself in your own foot by providing the link above.

Here is what it says.

Jinnah was introduced to politics by a freemason zoroastrian Dadabhoy Naoroji

Among his friends was Mr. Ebrahim Currimbhoy another freemason

Jinnah was also a follower of Annie Besant who was among one of the first female freemason and was a follower of witch lady Helena Petrovna Blavatsky

Jinnah married Dadabhoy's Zoroastrian daughter who was into witchcraft and never truly converted to Islam as Jinnah was forced to leave her due to his image as many Muslims started to question his religious life.

Jinnah's own daughter also ended up marrying a zoroastrian

Jinnah was a member of Fabian society and its symbol is a wolf in sheep clothing. Who's agenda was and is to shape the world according to its desire which they did when they created nations from its empire.
1602956808715.png


And oh, do let me know what Jinnah or Iqbal did to prevent infiltration of Freemasonry in Muslim land.


Thanks for the share brother. it shows that Quaid e Azam admired Allama Iqbal very much. He was pursuaded by him to come to British South Asia.
Jinnah and Iqbal love story is just Pakistani imaginary links. Jinnah actually spend more time with his freemason friends then Iqbal who himself was a British loyalist.

The relationship of Allama Iqbal with Quaid e Azam was like teacher and student, a sheikh and his mureed. Allama Iqbal was mufakkar e Pakistan, while Quaid e Azam carried on the task as a soldier in pursuit of the holy cause.
Some one who is a product of British empire can not be associated with true teachings of Islam. Do a little bit research and you will find out that Islam has warned against people who will use religion to misguide Muslims which liberals like Iqbal did and extreme Mullahs...

Gross exaggeration.

One is a man of esteemed character who never blackmailed or used tricks against his opponents. Quaid e Azam.

The other was a false faqeer who used an image to gain notoriety, bully Muslims into submission, while his personal life was full of scandals. Gandhi.
1602957205975.png

1602957219394.png


1602957233081.png




That is a perfect example of two sides of same coin.. dont they look so happy together?

Now find me pictures like this of Iqbal and Jinnah who had a teacher student relationship?


Look at the first link which details the struggles he faced in the 1930s in seeking autonomy for states, and faced backlash and vilification for it. He realized that Muslims were not safe unless we were free.
So he realized Muslims needed a separate state only after he faced issues himself? but before that he was perfectly fine with singing slogans of "Saray Jahan say acha Hinduistan hamara".

Allama Iqbal's famous Allahabad address. http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00islamlinks/txt_iqbal_1930.html

It cannot be denied that Islam, regarded as an ethical ideal plus a certain kind of polity – by which expression I mean a social structure regulated by a legal system and animated by a specific ethical ideal – has been the chief formative factor in the life-history of the Muslims of India. It has furnished those basic emotions and loyalties which gradually unify scattered individuals and groups, and finally transform them into a well-defined people, possessing a moral consciousness of their own. Indeed it is not an exaggeration to say that India is perhaps the only country in the world where Islam, as a people-building force, has worked at its best. In India, as elsewhere, the structure of Islam as a society is almost entirely due to the working of Islam as a culture inspired by a specific ethical ideal. What I mean to say is that Muslim society, with its remarkable homogeneity and inner unity, has grown to be what it is, under the pressure of the laws and institutions associated with the culture of Islam.

Do you also want me to post numerous Qadiyanis including Mirza who were in favor of British approved imaginary Islamic ideas? that were not practical in real life.








False information.

Islamic scholar and thinker Abul Hassan Ali Nadwi wrote about Allama Iqbal: "Muhammad Iqbal, the poet of Islam and the philosopher of the age, lived with passionate love of the Prophet (peace be upon him) and an ardent affection to Madinah, the Prophet’s city. He sang about this in his poems. During his last days, Iqbal was tearful whenever he mentioned the holy city. He did not have the physical capability to go to Makkah and Madinah to perform Haj and visit the Prophet’s (pbuh) grave due to an age-related ailment. However, he decided to perform Haj, defying the advice of doctors and friends. But his determination was very strong and this enabled him to perform Haj and visit the Prophet’s grave."
Fake news.

No factual evidence of Iqbal performing Haj or Ummrah. You are presenting these quotes as if they are Hadiths.

Neither was Ahmadiyya,
What did Iqbal do to stop the spread of false Islamic teachings of Qadiyani if Pakistanis consider him some sort of divine muslim warrior?
Did he fail or succeed in stopping spread of Qadiyani religion?


You can read the conclusion of his soul-searching, or listen to it from the sources you quoted. He realized early on that the Ahmadiyyas were misguided, and had nothing to do with them.

If you read fake Ahmadiyya sources, they will always create lies to further their religion, nothing new.
My sources is his own Son who admitted Iqbal was a follower of Mirza and passively agreed to it by not enthusiastically denouncing his Qadiyani links.


Allama Iqbal cleansed the hearts of Muslims and gave us a purpose. If you read his workds with faith in your heart and a willingness to learn, many u can experience that as well.

He worked until the end of his life to rid the Muslims of the apathy, hopelessness, and pessimism that they had become accustomed to, as a result of British subjugation.
If I need guidance from Islam I will only read Quran Hadiths and Sunnah and not some boring poet who was awarded with knighthood.

Conspiracy theory, nothing more. Who are you to make this claim?

Read his 1930 Allahabad address and his hostile tone afterwards towards the British for siding with the Hindus against Muslim interests.
You need to understand that British empire planned their stratagy to exit out of its empire 100 years ahead of time. You think they just went with the flow of events that were unfolding? They are not dumb as emotional desi people. They actually outsmarted everyone.
The only way they could enforce their exit strategy is by selection of local people who would create this illusion of defeating British empire. Infact they were all working hand in hand with the empire.
Almost every other nation that was created from British empire has similar story that they struggled to get independence. thats all bs...


Ch. Rehmat Ali was opposed to that. It was added at the insistence of the Bengali MB leaders. It was a mistake, we know that now.
If your true spritually guided founding fathers realized that Hindus were enemies of Muslims then why someone with a brain would think that its a good idea to accept Pakistan with two parts? If some one tries to sell me a house with bathroom and bedroom across the street I will stay the heck away from it.

As for Kashmir, we were deceived by the British and Hindus. It was deliberately being delayed to give India a chance to take it over. Their plans only partially succeeded.
That just proves that British empire created Pakistan according to their plan infact every other nation was created by them.
Please do not be abusive to our Walis like Allama Iqbal and Quaid e Azam, RahmatAllahu alayhuma.
Please dont associate these British agents with Islam.


This is false. Do you remember Muslims who were send to places like Turkey, Burma, and WW2? You can create another thread to learn more. I would be interested to learn more about this.
So its okay to serve British Masters and die for them? Would that soldier be called a shaheed?


In what interest was it for them to create Pakistan? They feared a new Muslim state forming, but Quaid e Azam kept up the demand, with backing of the majority of the Muslims after ML won 1945 elections in Muslim regions.
That question applies to every Muslim nation that was controled by british empire. The simple answer is to control the muslim world according to its desire.







Look above.
So you are saying that Jinnah did not live majority of his life as a English gentlemen?



They are fringe and dangerous. They support enemy propaganda.
If its fact, I dont care whose mouth it is coming from.

Allama Iqbal RA was also a traditional scholar of Islam, who obtained his ijazah in the classical war, through his teacher, another Islamic scholar. He learned Eastern philosophy (Rumi, Hafiz, etc.) and also attained detailed knowledge of Western philosophy.
He was able to give Islam a voice to fight back against other ideologies which sought to supplant Islam.
If you need poems to understand Islam then something is wrong with you. Just read the Quran Hadith and Sunnah and dont be influenced with other ideology and 1000s of interpretation.
Iqbal is someone whose spiritual life was influenced by Qadiyani Sufism and British Raj, so no thank you.




Conspiracy theories again. I answered that point above.
Was Jinnah not a member of Fabian society? Or are you being delusional?
Did Jinnah not have links with freemason? or are you being delusional?

Your toxic pessimism is really a black hole which does not help us in anyway in resolving our problems.

People like you only abuse and belittle those who have helped us in the past and those who wish to help us move forward.
I just want Pakistan 2.0 that is free from current problems. Even though Britishers created this nation we need to own it now. Pakistan cant even make changes to imerial system that was shoved down the throat.

We can fight Jihad bil qalam. He was called Quaid e Azam for a leader. Quaid actually is a word for an Arab war leader, as opposed to a Sheikh who is a political head.
So Jinnah fought Jihad by enjoying British education, job, privilege, lifestyle? NICE.


Pakistan needs to be ironed out, that is all.
It needs a factory reset and installed with new version. lol

One source was a sample of Allama Iqbal and his positive philosophy, in his own words.

The other was a scholarly discussion of the nature of Allama Iqbals relationship with Quaid e Azam.

Neither was hero worship, and the video is sourced with facts throughout. If interested in truth, please look.
Okay but do you have pictures of Iqbal and Jinnah's as much as jinnah and ghandi ???
because I just think this Jinnah Iqbal relationship is a imaginary link by Pakistanis.


We proved our right to exist when we fought the combined Indian and British forces immediately after partition.
LOL
Do check who was the chief of "Royal" Pakistani army airforce and navy at that time.


Again, unwarranted abuse. They learned what was beneficial from their enemy, to eventually defeat their enemy. This is completely inline with the teachings of Islam. Rasulllah saws said "go as far as China for knowledge."
Does not mean you compromise with the enemy by enjoying their system to carry out their agenda.


What happened with Tipu Sultan? What about the small Muslim rulers throughout the subcontinent who fought the British?
Tipu truly opposed British rule and the rest that came after were just stooges.


Allama Iqbal pushed it on the British in 1930, and he did not stop demanding it. Neither did his supporters like Quaid e Azam, Maulana Shabbir Usmani, and others.

British had no choice. Why they going to have Muslims declare jihad on them while they were weak? Think about it.
This is why I disagree with your thoughts.

If British empire was against Iqbal or Jinnah they would have tied them up in front of cannon and blown them up in pieces just like what they use to do during 1800s to those who opposed them.


You are the one who is mentally enslaved. You have accepted enemy propaganda.
That would be if I supported the idea of One India which I dont..
 

Attachments

Last edited:

Myth_buster_1

BANNED
Mar 17, 2008
8,220
2
7,484
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
Aww the crackpot theories of mythbuster.
That would be If I say.....

The Dajjal will come upon an exceedingly white donkey, the width between its two ears being seventy yards

70 yards, or approximately 65 meters, is the average wingspan of a medium sized aircraft. The word Aqmar in this Hadith is a precise description of the silvery white and metallic color of modern aircraft.

here is Jinnah's air plane that was gifted by British masters.

PS: The length is 65 feet.... at least the numbers match :azn:


1602962607050.png
 
Last edited:

Cherub786

BANNED
Jul 28, 2020
371
-2
292
Country
Canada
Location
Canada
Why is Mandela himself considered a hero? The guy was a hardcore Marxist who wanted to create a classless society. Although Apartheid was racist, at least South Africa was a business friendly country. Now the radical leftists ANC and the more extreme EFF led by that demagogue Julius Malema have driven South Africa into the ground. They talk about seizing land from White farmers and are causing White flight which means flight of capital and a major brain drain.
 

EGalois

FULL MEMBER
Oct 22, 2020
104
0
123
Country
China
Location
United States
If given the choice to choose between Jinnah and Gandhi, Mandela would surely choose Jinnah. Gandhi was a notorious racist.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)


Top Bottom