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MADE IN UAE

Philip the Arab

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Pretty hard question honestly. I will be ok with it at least to have 5 or even 10 of those magnificient Mirage 2K with their armaments. And you?
My question is Egypt interested on them yes or no? If yes what would they bring us more options than our 20 or 18 Mirage 2K.
I think UAE should modernize them further and give them to Egypt free of charge.

They are already armed with Thunder, and Al Tariq.

Integration work is being done on them to carry the Saber air launched cruise missile with 290km range. (Export range but real range could be closer to 500km assuming loitering time of 30 minutes and a speed of 0.8 Mach)

I think the future air to air missile they are developing could also be integrated as well. Although I’m not sure if it is a WVRAAM or a BVRAAM but hoping both.


@Philip the Arab does the UAE have ToT for the Scalp cruise missile under the name of Black Shaheen?
No, they didn’t get the ToT for it. Maybe some offsets but as far as I know no ToT.

Not sure UAE had the capability at the time to even absorb the ToT.
 

Ghostkiller

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I think UAE should modernize them further and give them to Egypt free of charge.

They are already armed with Thunder, and Al Tariq.

Integration work is being done on them to carry the Saber air launched cruise missile with 290km range.

I think the future air to air missile they are developing could also be integrated as well. Although I’m not sure if it is a WVRAAM or a BVRAAM but hoping both.
The A2A deveoling by EDGE, where it would be mounted on? On F-16, Rafales, Mirage 2K?
 

Philip the Arab

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The A2A deveoling by EDGE, where it would be mounted on? On F-16, Rafales, Mirage 2K?
F-16s are a bit iffy because Americans might refuse to give permission. I doubt EDGE could make something superior to the AIM-9x or AMRAAM right away either.

Rafale is a lot more likely and Mirages are certain. Likely they could develop something superior to MICA but inferior to Meteor.

If it’s a WVRAAM good chance to be based off the A-Darter.

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Ghostkiller

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F-16s are a bit iffy because Americans might refuse to give permission. I doubt EDGE could make something superior to the AIM-9x or AMRAAM right away either.

Rafale is a lot more likely and Mirages are certain. Likely they could develop something superior to MICA but inferior to Meteor.

If it’s a WVRAAM good chance to be based off the A-Darter.

View attachment 848543
I hope for the best for UAE. It could help a lot of Arab countries. Maybe the R-Darter for BVRAAM. Plus R-Darter is derived from the Derby missile (Israel) which is one of the best A2A missile in the world. Or even Marlin BVR missile to UAE.
Also I think France will be more acceptable to mount indigenous products like the A2A missiles on Mirage 2K because hardly on the Rafale because India wouldn't mount their Astra BVR missile on them.
 

WotTen

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How many of these weapons can be serviced or maintained -- never mind designed -- by UAE citizens, not foreign workers on visa?
 

Philip the Arab

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How many of these weapons can be serviced or maintained -- never mind designed -- by UAE citizens, not foreign workers on visa?
Are you stupid?
The vast majority of maintainers and flight crew of the UAEAF are citizens.

Maybe 20+ years ago a lot more of them were non-citizens but that has changed recently.

And as far as designing goes, by the end of the decade they will have 400 UAE citizens in the missile design department of one company.
 

Zaki

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I am happy to see the UAE defence industry is thriving but it boggles my head when I research about some of these products.

For example UAE launched “Hope” orbiter in the Mars last year and became the first Muslim majority nation to achieve this milestone. It is perfect and very glad to hear that, but then I explored further and came to know that the orbiter was made in the USA. It was launched from Japan by using their missile technology... So I started wondering what is indigenous from UAE if the orbiter is designed by USA and launched by Japan?

Nevertheless I must appreciate UAE for taking such initiative cause the Arab nations were lacking behind in technology and UAE has taken a lot of steps to bridge this gap.
 

Philip the Arab

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I am happy to see the UAE defence industry is thriving but it boggles my head when I research about some of these products.

For example UAE launched “Hope” orbiter in the Mars last year and became the first Muslim majority nation to achieve this milestone. It is perfect and very glad to hear that, but then I explored further and came to know that the orbiter was made in the USA. It was launched from Japan by using their missile technology... So I started wondering what is indigenous from UAE if the orbiter is designed by USA and launched by Japan?

Nevertheless I must appreciate UAE for taking such initiative cause the Arab nations were lacking behind in technology and UAE has taken a lot of steps to bridge this gap.
UAE is trying to develop its own space technology, hopefully soon.

In fact, they are developing a sounding rocket currently which is the stepping stone to a satellite launcher and are developing mars rover wheels.

1653701095461.png
 

WotTen

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Are you stupid?
The vast majority of maintainers and flight crew of the UAEAF are citizens.

Maybe 20+ years ago a lot more of them were non-citizens but that has changed recently.

And as far as designing goes, by the end of the decade they will have 400 UAE citizens in the missile design department of one company.

Sure. Just like the so-called UAE Mars mission. Everybody knows the joke of having to hire a couple of locals for the photo ceremony and check signing events.

It's an open joke in the West that any crazy idiot in the West who can't raise money or get funding from democratic governments accountable to their people can go to the Gulf to get these sheikhs to fund their idiotic ideas.

I have read the US air force's assessments of working with Saudi and UAE air forces and the internal cultural dynamics at play. Nobody's losing sleep over their capabilities.

P.S. No country will train foreigners in their most advanced technology. Every single country that produces cutting edge military technology has a local university base. US, China, Russia, France, UK. Germany, Japan, South Korea, Israel. They all have top class technical universities in their countries.
 
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Philip the Arab

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Sure. Just like the so-called UAE Mars mission. Everybody knows the joke of having to hire a couple of locals for the photo ceremony and check signing events.

It's an open joke in the West that any crazy idiot in the West who can't raise money or get funding from democratic governments accountable to their people can go to the Gulf to get these sheikhs to fund their idiotic ideas.

I have read the US air force's assessments of working with Saudi and UAE air forces and the internal cultural dynamics at play. Nobody's losing sleep over their capabilities.
I'm not sure how you exepct 900k citizens to able to do things that countries with many times their population cant buddy.
 

WotTen

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I'm not sure how you exepct 900k citizens to able to do things that countries with many times their population cant buddy.

OK. I didn't know UAE is so tiny. I take back some of my criticisms but I still think the rulers should invest in the education of their citizens (top universities) instead of shiny toys.
 

Philip the Arab

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OK. I didn't know UAE is so tiny. I take back some of my criticisms but I still think the rulers should invest in the education of their citizens (top universities) instead of shiny toys.
These defense companies such as Halcon are paying for their Emirati citizen engineers to attend higher universities such as Cranfield and Belgrade uni.

It takes time to develop capabilities from scratch, using foreign engineers makes the process go by much faster. Chinese used Soviet engineers for a lot of their projects in the 50s and 60s which greatly accelerated their capabilities which would have been impossible in that timeframe without them.
 

Gomig-21

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@Ghostkiller
Do you think Egypt should get Emirati Mirages?

YES! Absolutely and you probably know I've been saying this for a while, now. If you think about how long the EAF has held on to those original 20 Mirage 2Ks and still do and fly them in top secret missions as if they're the super duper special forces of the EAF. Taking off their insignias and performing deep interdiction missions into Lybia and south of Egypt etc. They have a special place in the EAF and despite the arrival of the Rafale, they still seem to hold on to those things to the point where they've designed a special building to service them and perform complete overhauls on the remaining ones.

Personally I don't think there are that many of the original 20 still active TBH. It's a miracle they've lasted this long those things are 40 years old! Good testament. I'd be surprise if the number is over 10. I tried counting them based on their serial numbers and in all the possible photos produced in the last 10 years and I could only match 4, possibly 6 LOL!

Now they might retire them once the next batch of Rafales show up, it's possible, and in that case move on from the Mirages as dedicated attack aircraft and possibly short range air to air fighting.

If they can get even a dozen or 14 ex-UAE Mirages, at least those have better avionics and weapons capabilities than the EAF ones and can carry and fire the AASM HAMMERs as well as the MICA IR & EM that the Rafales use, add them to whatever the current fleet count is and keep operating that special forces air squadron.

They have already committed something like 36 or so out of the 60 2000-9s to Morrocco, wlad el.....never mind, sorry, :D That still leaves 24 or so that many of them can come to Egypt ISA.

Possible Moroccan camo scheme.

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Philip the Arab

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@Gomig-21
Important capability you didn't mention is the integration of the Saber 220 on the Mirage-2000, this would give EAF a huge increase in its standoff ability without having to rely on the SCALPs alone.

BTW, not sure if Morocco is for sure getting the Mirages or what tbh its been a lot of hearsay.

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"The missile is not envisaged as a replacement for the standoff weapons already available to the UAE, including the MBDA Al-Shaheen derivative of the Scalp/Storm Shadow air-launched cruise missile, but as an additional capability targeted for integration on the UAE’s Dassault Mirage 2000s."
 

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