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Lt Gen Asim Munir selected as new army chief

Burger_King

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I want to give Gen Munir a good shot and a clean slate but unfortunately there is no clean slate. We have a patriot journalist killed in Kenya under mysterious circumstances. A journalist close to the heart of Pakistanis and real patriot who was hounded out of our country and UAE. Like deaths of Pak patriots, His death elicited minimal if any reaction from HRW, Nytimes or other journalistic community in West. Really only ones who seem to care is Kenyan journalist and not even our journalists. If it was not ISI who did this, it would make sense to be involved in finding out who killed our Arshad. This killing is nothing like Saleem Shehzad who was known RAW hand and can’t be treated the same. If it was ISI and it was infact orders from Bajwa then Bajwa needs to hang for this murder of someone who loved his country.

The other event is the attempted assassination of former PM IK. He is without doubt the most popular leader in Pakistan commanding love and respect of 10s of millions. There is a rift between his party and establishment. If the assassins had been successful, he wouldn’t be around to stop the people from tearing our country apart. A real civil war, including losing many officers and soldiers to mutiny even killing their superiors could have happened. We may have been a few mm away from losing our country. From a national security perspective, if ISI can investigate Panama papers, help with bloodyCOVID and FATF, the investigation of the assassination attempt of former PM and an event that almost led to the massacre of entire corp commanders should be investigated thoroughly by them. If it’s a rogue ISI unit, make an example out of them. If it’s Bajwa, then he should be tried and hung for murder and attempted murder. These basic moves make sense. There is no forgive and forget on these topics. This is worse than selling nuclear secrets as this may have led to total destruction of our country.

Although I lean towards IK, I have supported and support Zia, Mush, Kiyani, RS over all politcians. Inshallah when we get someone better than IK I will support them also.

Best of luck to Gen Munir, May Allah guide him to what is best for our country. Pakistan always Zindabad.

Some good points.

Sounds cruel and inhuman, but army and ISI will have to be given a free pass even if some of the senior brass was involved in direct killing of Arshad Shareef. Goal of hostile powers is to neutralize Pakistan in which removal of IK's government is but a step. End goal of enemy is to weaken the power of the army and that plan has been an unqualified success probably beyond the wildest dreams of the enemies. Any public investigation will find a way of blaming the army whether or not army had anything to do with the murder. Hostile powers will actively use their influence to get an outcome of their liking which is to portray the armed forces as a rogue element whose existence is threat to the world peace and thus in need to neutralization ala Saddam's nuclear program.

I honestly do not believe that Bajwa thought through the ramification of his actions on the long term well being of Pakistan. Bajwa does not seem to be a bright or a harami type of person that Musharraf and Zia were. Bajwa probably believed 24x7 propaganda blared out against IK's government by agents of hostile forces i.e. Dawn and Geo news. He probably thought economic situation would improve with removal of IK's government because that is what he was being told. Things did not go according to plan because (a) IK's smart political move of oil subsidy (b) jump in oil and other commodity prices (c) refusal of Saudis to pump in money which was probably a lie sold by Sharif brothers. The fact that Bajwa's financial well being appears to be linked with removal of IK's government made the decision so much more easier.

Having lost the plot, he has reacted in manner which is to be expected from bullies and people with weak personality. He has lashed out against weak and the just and in process, damaging the reputation of the army.

Should army as an institution be held responsible for Bajwa's treachery. No, most certainly not. All, but one political party, has gone along with Bajwa's plans. So why should politicians and people who support them escape the blame? And there are good people in the army. This cannot be said of any other party with the exception of PTI.

New COAS has a difficult task at hand. It is claimed that he is a hafiz. Will he therefore do justice to the Quran and act in a manner that upholds the sanctity of his achievement? Or will he prove to be a two bit chralatan who uses cloak of piety to claim worldly accomplishment? Sadly Pakistan is full of such people. For country's sake, hope he is different.
 

SQ8

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Amjad Shoaib has also made a video on that but in the end we weigh the good/bad deeds and make an overall opinion. Gen Musharraf did a lot of good work but his NRO is the main thing for which people judge him.
Versus Gen K and others Musharraf was a very mediocre general and his contributions are not any worthwhile to the army overall. Not only that, the team he selected and which led during initial WoT did the same as in Kargil and literally fed soldiers to the Waziristan/Bajaur meat grinder despite many warnings by junior officers.

Shaukat Aziz made a fool out of everyone especially with the aid Pakistan was getting and other than facade of consumerism there was no actual development in Pakistan and the he made his millions through the stock market and was gone.

The NRO was just his last act in trying to hold onto his seat which is what all dictators(and quasi dictators) do
 

Goenitz

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Versus Gen K and others Musharraf was a very mediocre general and his contributions are not any worthwhile to the army overall. Not only that, the team he selected and which led during initial WoT did the same as in Kargil and literally fed soldiers to the Waziristan/Bajaur meat grinder despite many warnings by junior officers.
So true, until Gen Tariq arrived. Kiyani really did a lot.. both Wajhat and Gen Tariq share the same opinion. Kiyani himself didn't do much corruption but PPP ran havoc in that era.. He couldn't stop it by law.
Anyway, it is Kiyani formula to make ISI cells, all across Pak, for an effective control over Govt through police and judiciary. Bajwa didn't have to make an effort even.
 

SIPRA

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@SIPRA @PanzerKiel


I am of the mind to write the honourable new COAS an open letter. No, I am not worried about reprisals ... not even on PDF. Funk!

Only question I struggel with apart from putting energy/effort into it is... is it worth doing? whether it will have a value? @peagle


Regardless, MirJaffar is going to flee or pretend to stay in OurLand while not really living here...? Kinda .... lecture tours or BelgianCholate tasting?

MirJaffar destrpyed PakEconomy.

MirJaffar had kids kidnaped and tortured.

MirJaffar had old ladies terrorised and insluted.

MirJaffar had the CriminalEnterprised re-installed.

MirJaffar gave NRO2.

MirJaffar
made billions... that we know of... in OurLand.... but how many $ abroad is anyone's guess....


BUT MirJaffar was so IMPOTENT that he couldn't have Fazlu installed as Praezeeedant ....

But then Fazlu got to use PAF jet to fly to Karachi and back....

Khottacracy Zinda hae.


Pakistan is a Colony of the CriminalEnterprise.... but now that the EventHorizon is here with its dear sister Abyss.... all Eyes on you Honourable COAS. New one, of course!


Mangus

Pa Jee: Don't entertain much hope from new COAS, but want to await for at least two weeks, before analyzing the situation.
 

Abdul Rehman Majeed

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A real callous post. I have reported it.

Phulwama attack was against Indian military occupiers in IOK. There were no civilians involved and it was a valid target under Geneva conventions.

Why should we be so defensive?

We should give credit to our military where it is due.

Ukraine is attacking Russia from Kherson to Crimea without mincing any words.

We should do the same as what Ukraine is doing.

We should openly declare war against Indian occupiers in IOK and take help from friendly countries like China, OIC, NATO to evict the Indian occupiers from the IOK.

Total BS. It was obvious False Flag. Reporting post.

We should stop being so defensive.
 

SQ8

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So true, until Gen Tariq arrived. Kiyani really did a lot.. both Wajhat and Gen Tariq share the same opinion. Kiyani himself didn't do much corruption but PPP ran havoc in that era.. He couldn't stop it by law.
Anyway, it is Kiyani formula to make ISI cells, all across Pak, for an effective control over Govt through police and judiciary. Bajwa didn't have to make an effort even.
It was just odd that there were rumors on a close family member of Gen Ks who got into military contracts around the time he hit 3 star and went from a Suziki FX to a Landcruiser in 3 years.

Maybe all just a coincidence and he really flourished as a businessman during that time by skillset alone
 

Bilal Khan (Quwa)

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I want to give Gen Munir a good shot and a clean slate but unfortunately there is no clean slate. We have a patriot journalist killed in Kenya under mysterious circumstances. A journalist close to the heart of Pakistanis and real patriot who was hounded out of our country and UAE. Like deaths of Pak patriots, His death elicited minimal if any reaction from HRW, Nytimes or other journalistic community in West. Really only ones who seem to care is Kenyan journalist and not even our journalists. If it was not ISI who did this, it would make sense to be involved in finding out who killed our Arshad. This killing is nothing like Saleem Shehzad who was known RAW hand and can’t be treated the same. If it was ISI and it was infact orders from Bajwa then Bajwa needs to hang for this murder of someone who loved his country.

The other event is the attempted assassination of former PM IK. He is without doubt the most popular leader in Pakistan commanding love and respect of 10s of millions. There is a rift between his party and establishment. If the assassins had been successful, he wouldn’t be around to stop the people from tearing our country apart. A real civil war, including losing many officers and soldiers to mutiny even killing their superiors could have happened. We may have been a few mm away from losing our country. From a national security perspective, if ISI can investigate Panama papers, help with bloodyCOVID and FATF, the investigation of the assassination attempt of former PM and an event that almost led to the massacre of entire corp commanders should be investigated thoroughly by them. If it’s a rogue ISI unit, make an example out of them. If it’s Bajwa, then he should be tried and hung for murder and attempted murder. These basic moves make sense. There is no forgive and forget on these topics. This is worse than selling nuclear secrets as this may have led to total destruction of our country.

Although I lean towards IK, I have supported and support Zia, Mush, Kiyani, RS over all politcians. Inshallah when we get someone better than IK I will support them also.

Best of luck to Gen Munir, May Allah guide him to what is best for our country. Pakistan always Zindabad.
With respect, but this double standard is the problem.

We're again falling into the trap of supporting our preferred personalities or institutions rather than ideology and the rule of law. If we want to investigate the murder of Arshad, then we need to apply the same treatment to Shehzad.

Calling Shehzad a 'RAW hand' is an accusation. We need actual proof of dealings with RAW and, then when we have it, arrest the guy and put him through trial. If found guilty of treason, then hang him. However, extra-judicial killings is a sign of institutional weakness, a lack of accountability, and, ultimately, internal corruption. It killed Shehzad, then Arshad, and then someone else.

IK isn't going to save Pakistan. Neither are the Sharif, Zardari, Bhutto, etc, families. It's ideas and obedience to ideas that will save Pakistan. The latter means we stop following personalities and cult figures. Instead, we follow the law, we stick to contractual terms, we think in terms of common reference points, and we use those to clean up the institutions -- and keep them clean. If we do that in Pakistan, we'll be first-world in our mentality and, with time, in our material output.


@JamD @SQ8 @Falcon26 @MastanKhan @VCheng
 

Dil Pakistan

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Phulwama attack was against Indian military occupiers in IOK. There were no civilians involved and it was a valid target under Geneva conventions.

Why should we be so defensive?

We should give credit to our military where it is due.

Ukraine is attacking Russia from Kherson to Crimea without mincing any words.

We should do the same as what Ukraine is doing.

We should openly declare war against Indian occupiers in IOK and take help from friendly countries like China, OIC, NATO to evict the Indian occupiers from the IOK.



We should stop being so defensive.
You have very serious misunderstanding on how your own actions are used to isolate you in international community and legitimise the attacks against you.
 
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VCheng

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With respect, but this double standard is the problem.

We're again falling into the trap of supporting our preferred personalities or institutions rather than ideology and the rule of law. If we want to investigate the murder of Arshad, then we need to apply the same treatment to Shehzad.

Calling Shehzad a 'RAW hand' is an accusation. We need actual proof of dealings with RAW and, then when we have it, arrest the guy and put him through trial. If found guilty of treason, then hang him. However, extra-judicial killings is a sign of institutional weakness, a lack of accountability, and, ultimately, internal corruption. It killed Shehzad, then Arshad, and then someone else.

IK isn't going to save Pakistan. Neither are the Sharif, Zardari, Bhutto, etc, families. It's ideas and obedience to ideas that will save Pakistan. The latter means we stop following personalities and cult figures. Instead, we follow the law, we stick to contractual terms, we think in terms of common reference points, and we use those to clean up the institutions -- and keep them clean. If we do that in Pakistan, we'll be first-world in our mentality and, with time, in our material output.


@JamD @SQ8 @Falcon26 @MastanKhan @VCheng

Agreed. I have been pointing out this double standard for a long time here, to no effect, but take solace only in the fact that such hypocrisy ultimately is self-defeating, as we can observe.
 

JamD

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With respect, but this double standard is the problem.

We're again falling into the trap of supporting our preferred personalities or institutions rather than ideology and the rule of law. If we want to investigate the murder of Arshad, then we need to apply the same treatment to Shehzad.

Calling Shehzad a 'RAW hand' is an accusation. We need actual proof of dealings with RAW and, then when we have it, arrest the guy and put him through trial. If found guilty of treason, then hang him. However, extra-judicial killings is a sign of institutional weakness, a lack of accountability, and, ultimately, internal corruption. It killed Shehzad, then Arshad, and then someone else.

IK isn't going to save Pakistan. Neither are the Sharif, Zardari, Bhutto, etc, families. It's ideas and obedience to ideas that will save Pakistan. The latter means we stop following personalities and cult figures. Instead, we follow the law, we stick to contractual terms, we think in terms of common reference points, and we use those to clean up the institutions -- and keep them clean. If we do that in Pakistan, we'll be first-world in our mentality and, with time, in our material output.


@JamD @SQ8 @Falcon26 @MastanKhan @VCheng
Your argument is of course sound but it is too complicated for the average awami mind that has never evolved beyond the herd mentality of "maira baba baba, taira baba kutta."

Are we slow as a nation? I don't know. But the level of discourse certainly suggests so. My life is an endless cycle of telling people that just because I object to baba X's actions doesn't mean I'm baba Y's murshid and vice versa. That someone can make judgements based on principles is a concept that breaks the average brain for some reason. I don't care if this feels like talking down to people. It's frustrating and it is what it is.
 

VCheng

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Your argument is of course sound but it is too complicated for the average awami mind that has never evolved beyond the herd mentality of "maira baba baba, taira baba kutta."

Are we slow as a nation? I don't know. But the level of discourse certainly suggests so. My life is an endless cycle of telling people that just because I object to baba X's actions doesn't mean I'm baba Y's murshid and vice versa. That someone can make judgements based on principles is a concept that breaks the average brain for some reason. I don't care if this feels like talking down to people. It's frustrating and it is what it is.

Acceptance is a good way to avoid such frustrations. :D
 

Pakstallion

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Murder of journalist Arshad Sharif was globally condemned including also by the US Department of State.




----

Journalist Saleem Shehzad was a RAW hand or his crime was that he knew too much?


----

When people are conditioned to patronize extrajudicial killings, no wonder these deplorable acts continue like business as usual in this country.

These are but reminders of why our society is so effed up and why it fails to course-correct itself.
I guess compared to Khoshgi. I just know if there was someone critical of Putin and he was killed in a foreign country under very suspicious circumstances there would be op-eds in nytimes, Washington post, cnn shows continuously. I haven’t seen the same level of interest or condemnation for our patriot. I acknowledge your point about Saleem Shahzad. On many many things as a pro mil person I have given benefit for he doubt to my army and establishment.
 

Jango

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He should be anti-IK if IK's family is involved in corruption.

He should not be anti anyone.

He is a grade 22 officer, that is it.

He should be doing whatever his boss (technically the secretary defence, then defence minister, and finally the PM) tell him to do.

He should have no say in anti-corruption drives, in political moves, in local social media monitoring, and so on and so forth.

That is where the whole problem starts with, when he has to be anti someone, or pro someone.

IK corruption karta hai, jail main dalo, phansi lagao, but it should be FIA/NAB/FBR that does it, not army. And speaking of which, what exactly is the qualification of karnails and birgadiers in investigations of financial crimes keh poora NAB in say bhara hua hai?

I've mentioned this case many times before on PDF, but when someone I know got into trouble with NAB (long story why they got in trouble in the first place), the IO said aap koi fauji contact dhoondain, unhi ki sifarish chalti hai idhr.

It was just odd that there were rumors on a close family member of Gen Ks who got into military contracts around the time he hit 3 star and went from a Suziki FX to a Landcruiser in 3 years.

Maybe all just a coincidence and he really flourished as a businessman during that time by skillset alone

Yeah, he made some good buddies in MES during those years!
 

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