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LHC to hear arguments on petition against holding of Aurat March

Alternatiiv

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This is not evidence but "narrative statistics."

I have worked in professional organizations, and I know from exposure that women are not underpaid in them. In fact, wages are tied to posts and skills.


Countless women work in Pakistan to support their households.

Narrative statistics again. Women can achieve big in Pakistan (Benazir Bhutto ring any bells?). However, what career choices they are making across the country - is up to them. Nobody can force them to seek a career in which they do not have any interest. Statistical equality in practice is wishful thinking.


Martial abuse is valid term instead.

Marriage 'may be consensual' is OXYMORON. Marriage is a relationship in which partners (irrespective of gender) consent to having sexual relations by default. Do you (as a husband) need permission from your wife every time you want to initiate? You do not have a true marriage then but a sham. Charges of Marital rape are a sure shot way of terminating a marriage in practice and otherwise.


These cases are under-reported everywhere.

Enlightening empirical study: https://jech.bmj.com/content/58/7/536


Sorry to burst your bubble but Feminism facilitate sexual revolution and expressions.


Yes, I live in Pakistan.

Marriage is an important consideration here because prospects of finding a suitable partner go down with age. Marriage facilitate socio-economic uplift for many households in the long-term.

I see lot of working women in Pakistan - many allow their women to work (many households will collapse otherwise). Government of Pakistan (GOP) only recognize and report certain types of employment in its books.

TV drama serials are expected to be overdramatized in their projection of social issues on average.

In fact, unemployment is becoming a major problem for men lately. Ponder over this.
When presented with evidence, you dismissed it as "narrative statistics," and go on to support your assertions with moee assertions and heresay.

It's like speaking to a brick wall with words written on it.

This is not evidence but "narrative statistics."

I have worked in professional organizations, and I know from exposure that women are not underpaid in them. In fact, wages are tied to posts and skills.


Countless women work in Pakistan to support their households.

Narrative statistics again. Women can achieve big in Pakistan (Benazir Bhutto ring any bells?). However, what career choices they are making across the country - is up to them. Nobody can force them to seek a career in which they do not have any interest. Statistical equality in practice is wishful thinking.


Martial abuse is valid term instead.

Marriage 'may be consensual' is OXYMORON. Marriage is a relationship in which partners (irrespective of gender) consent to having sexual relations by default. Do you (as a husband) need permission from your wife every time you want to initiate? You do not have a true marriage then but a sham. Charges of Marital rape are a sure shot way of terminating a marriage in practice and otherwise.


These cases are under-reported everywhere.

Enlightening empirical study: https://jech.bmj.com/content/58/7/536


Sorry to burst your bubble but Feminism facilitate sexual revolution and expressions.


Yes, I live in Pakistan.

Marriage is an important consideration here because prospects of finding a suitable partner go down with age. Marriage facilitate socio-economic uplift for many households in the long-term.

I see lot of working women in Pakistan - many allow their women to work (many households will collapse otherwise). Government of Pakistan (GOP) only recognize and report certain types of employment in its books.

TV drama serials are expected to be overdramatized in their projection of social issues on average.

In fact, unemployment is becoming a major problem for men lately. Ponder over this.
1 and 2, are not worth my time.

3. Yes, husband can initiate, but if the partner says that they are not in the mood, and don't want to, but the other partner forces himself onto her; is that rape or not? Unless you're horny 24/7.

4. The frequency is high in South Asian nations.

5. Sure.

6. Okay.

FB_IMG_1582652858591.jpg


Basically.
 

LeGenD

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When presented with evidence, you dismissed it as "narrative statistics," and go on to support your assertions with moee assertions and heresay.

It's like speaking to a brick wall with words written on it.
You take all manner of statistics at face value? You have no idea then. As a researcher, I am telling you that statistics are not infallible and mostly shaped by narratives. MIXED METHODS studies are most reliable and instructive but these are not common practice.

I have worked in professional organizations and I know from such exposure that women are not underpaid in them. I am not familiar with any professional organization where women are underpaid in same positions which are rewarding to men.

FYI: https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/

1 and 2, are not worth my time.
Of-course, you want to live in your own bubble.

3. Yes, husband can initiate, but if the partner says that they are not in the mood, and don't want to, but the other partner forces himself onto her; is that rape or not? Unless you're horny 24/7.
I would stick with the term martial abuse.

Being not in the mood mantra does not last in a relationship. A partner is supposed to commit to a relationship or do not bother getting into one. Being selfish and moody does not help a relationship at all.

Are you single?

4. The frequency is high in South Asian nations.
I don't believe in this nonsense. Western countries always want to give an impression that South Asian societies are utterly backward in comparison - this is not true. They are simply better at concealing their internal rot instead.

Men in Pakistan are generally groomed to respect women in all walks of life.

Both men and women experience domestic violence in Pakistan by the way.

You are learning. Good.

Pathetic tasteless joke.
 

Proudpakistaniguy

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If aurat march has sensible posters addressing real issues of woman i.e domestic violence, rape, double standards of society ,dowry forced marriages, stupid non Islamic traditions and jirga justice etc then even men would be supporting this march and be part of it. Also mostly woman who suffered injustice are from middle and lower class and they hardly had any representation in these marches . Pakistan is conservative country . These controversial vulgar comments " we are tired of DICKtatorship" "khana garum kar doon ghi bister khud garum karoo" " apni dick k pics apne pass rakhoo" etc etc put a dent on the real genuine cause. Women holding these behuda posters often smiling looking totally non serious from privileged class so this aurat march was more like some sort of fun activity at the expense of poor deprived woman
 

Kaleem.61

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Yes, a healthy family is one where there is domestic violence, a woman is expected to only compromise, and a career oriented woman is not allowed.

God blessed us with leaders well, well ahead of their time, and still we are only going back in times.

“No nation can rise to the height of glory unless your women are side by side with you. We are victims of evil customs. It is a crime against humanity that our women are shut up within the four walls of the houses as prisoners. There is no sanction anywhere for the deplorable condition in which our women have to live.”

― Muhammad Ali Jinnah
Back times...???

Some think music is haram. Some think a woman should stay in doors. Some think a man should not wear pant and jeans. Some think clean shaving your beard is haram. Some think Nationalism is haram.

Where do we draw the line. If that's the criteria; that it disturbs you when they do a, b, and c, while calling themselves Muslims (nothing of Aurat March is against Islam unless you consider women empowerment against Islam) then every person will have a problem.
Are you talking about freedom or Women rights. *** *** ***

What Quid said you can't use as an argument to support disrespecting of all men by these liberal women.

Women can do any thing except disrespecting all the men due to some. (Hopefully u 9 what i am saying)

I am working along with 1000+- high profile men and women. No wage difference, no harassment, no disrespect, no gender superiority.

Plus (Update):
One of my friend working in marketing company told me that all female leave at 7 pm where males leave at 11 pm+- with same pay. Again women are having superior rights.

They can apply on a job which was for men say in college or school. But men can't do the same. What rights are u talking about ***** ****.

@Alternative
Are there two pay scales ??? Have yo seen any where?? is it so vast that you made it a point of national interest.

If aurat march has sensible posters addressing real issues of woman i.e domestic violence, rape, double standards of society ,dowry forced marriages, stupid non Islamic traditions and jirga justice etc then even men would be supporting this march and be part of it. Also mostly woman who suffered injustice are from middle and lower class and they hardly had any representation in these marches . Pakistan is conservative country . These controversial vulgar comments " we are tired of DICKtatorship" "khana garum kar doon ghi bister khud garum karoo" " apni dick k pics apne pass rakhoo" etc etc put a dent on the real genuine cause. Women holding these behuda posters often smiling looking totally non serious from privileged class so this aurat march was more like some sort of fun activity at the expense of poor deprived woman
You pointed the core reason of opposition of this shit. Thanks.

These paid protesters were doing all what was against marriage and Islam.
I have seen a lot on social media what they are doing.
 
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PAKjunoon

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I mean, this march isn't calling for LBGT rights.
This is from 2018:
The demands of Aurat March 2018




You will be asking what "gender" and "sexual" minorities? Because as a feminist movement,obviously they won't support "men" or "heterosexuality".Then who are they supporting?

Here let me help you

Genders:




Sexualities:



This is this Year Demands:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">All of this translates into oppression and violence. Such is the nature of patriarchy that it subjects women, trans and non binary individuals to lifelong experiences of jabr by constricting their freedoms and giving their ownership to everyone except to themselves.</p>&mdash; AuratMarch2020 - عورت مارچ (@AuratMarchKHI) <a href=" ">February 24, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


Who are non-binary people?

 

Pakistani Fighter

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This is from 2018:
The demands of Aurat March 2018




You will be asking what "gender" and "sexual" minorities? Because as a feminist movement,obviously they won't support "men" or "heterosexuality".Then who are they supporting?

Here let me help you

Genders:




Sexualities:



This is this Year Demands:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">All of this translates into oppression and violence. Such is the nature of patriarchy that it subjects women, trans and non binary individuals to lifelong experiences of jabr by constricting their freedoms and giving their ownership to everyone except to themselves.</p>&mdash; AuratMarch2020 - عورت مارچ (@AuratMarchKHI) <a href=" ">February 24, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


Who are non-binary people?
Are they calling for legalization of abortion?
 

LeGenD

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This is from 2018:
The demands of Aurat March 2018




You will be asking what "gender" and "sexual" minorities? Because as a feminist movement,obviously they won't support "men" or "heterosexuality".Then who are they supporting?

Here let me help you

Genders:




Sexualities:



This is this Year Demands:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">All of this translates into oppression and violence. Such is the nature of patriarchy that it subjects women, trans and non binary individuals to lifelong experiences of jabr by constricting their freedoms and giving their ownership to everyone except to themselves.</p>&mdash; AuratMarch2020 - عورت مارچ (@AuratMarchKHI) <a href=" ">February 24, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


Who are non-binary people?
You see, these social degenerates have adopted flowery descriptions to advance their narratives in social platforms, and use these flowery descriptions to push for legalization of social degeneracy one step at a time. This is how they destroyed Western social moral fabric over time and now these societies are dealing with record number of shooting incidents, suicide rates and lack of birth rates. Majority of these Western societies are a mere shadow of what they used to be in terms of strength as of late; they are absolutely vulnerable outside NATO bloc. If not for American protection, Russians would be feasting on these toothless chicks one at a time.

Pakistani politicians (irrespective of party affiliations) have completely bought into Feminist women rights narrative without realizing the rot within. These morons need a wakeup call.

WE must strive for Islamic discourse in our social constructs free from localized patriarchy as well as Feminist indoctrinations.
 

PAKjunoon

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Pakistan has the highest wage gap in the world, according to the International Labor Organization; women in Pakistan earn 34% less than men on average. The Global Wage Report 2018/2019 also found women in Pakistan constitute 90% of the bottom 1% of wage earners in the country.
The Global Wage Report is very misleading. The Report is just aggregating data collected by different organization in different countries with different data collection method and of different years, not even the same years!

For Pakistan it is sourcing data collected from 2014-2015 by Pakistan Bureau of Statistics. The bureau did not take into account the type of jobs, hours of jobs, organization and etc. This data has the same inaccuracy as the one about in USA, which have been scientifically bunked many times now.

And do you think for-profit organization will like to increase their expenses, if they can hire females for the same job at lesser pay? It will be in their best interest to hire females, not males.

According to 2016 data by UN Women, only 26% of women participated in the labor force in Pakistan. Of these, 73% were employed in agriculture, forestry, hunting and fishing. Professional and managerial participation of women remained low, with women comprising only 7.4% of STEM professionals working in the field. Women employed in the formal sector also worked excessive hours versus men, and women with 10 years of education or more were noted as having high rates of underemployment or unemployment.
Why do you think that female participation is low? Because of gender discrimination or because the reality is most jobs are soul crushing, that everyone hate. Males are doing jobs in larger number not because they like it or find empowering but because they have too feed their whole family, at the expense of their peace an happiness.
I have seen many times. Just after graduation, girls will be all excited to join the workforce but the moment they start realizing the harsh realities of a job, they start preferring to stay at home and enjoy own their man's money. Only those staye fore more then 2 years, who don't have male members supporting them.

Marital rape is a perfectly valid term. Marriage may be consensual, but does that mean that intercourse no longer has to be consensual between the partners?
So, martial rape is one way, or males can also be martially raped? And how can marital rape be proved in court??

There is a difference between something your partner want, even if you don't want it and violentlty being subjected to it.

Feminism isn't objectifying women. Our society is by saying that they must be always covered.
Our society is stopping from women being objectified. When the society encourage women to cover their body, thats because we don't want them to be treat as sex-object but rather as an individual person that is more then its body and outer beauty.

Please, tell me why are all the models and female celebrities are younger girls on every type of media but most of the men on media are generally older and more mature?

That's because beauty sells, and younger girls are inherently more attractive then older girls.
That's why they are in every ads.

6. What do you mean bullshit? Do you even live in Pakistan? Everyone knows that, specially in lower strata of society, even prevalent in the middle and upper, women are assigned gender roles; that once they grow up, they will be married off, and are pressured to stay away from pursuing a career even if they want to.

No, in our society domestic violence is not prevalent. Most of these statistic are very mis-leading and are very liberal with their definition of domestic violence.

Domestic violence victims are also men, not only women.

But generally there is little domestic violence in Pakistan. Having arguments is not domestic violence. Not fulfilling every wish of your partner is not domestic violence. Setting boundaries is not domestic violence.
 

Sheikh Rauf

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As long as such dumb idiots are Chief Justice ..... who takes notice of so called aurat march but not killings and cases pending for years . we cant move forward.

PS: i am also against this so called aurat march ... but everyone has choice to do whatever they want
and you moved to Aus.. good choice for you.
 

Mav3rick

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Yes, a healthy family is one where there is domestic violence, a woman is expected to only compromise, and a career oriented woman is not allowed.
So, in your opinion, healthy family = aurat march?

Why does an extreme, especially from a very small and negligible percentage, require another extreme? How many families are there in Pakistan where women are not only treated with the utmost respect but also protected and defended above others?

And you further confuse your own self when you bring in career oriented women as a defense to aurat march. Ever wondered who in our society discourages career oriented women and why?

Some think music is haram. Some think a woman should stay in doors. Some think a man should not wear pant and jeans. Some think clean shaving your beard is haram. Some think Nationalism is haram.
Correct, there are divisions when you drill down into the nitty grities, but .......



Where do we draw the line. If that's the criteria; that it disturbs you when they do a, b, and c, while calling themselves Muslims (nothing of Aurat March is against Islam unless you consider women empowerment against Islam) then every person will have a problem.

I mean, this march isn't calling for LBGT rights. This march isn't calling for Qadianis to be declared Muslims. What exactly offends you, huh?
.....Everyone draws a line when it comes to the virtues and respect for women, there is absolutely NO division there. When a handful of women take to the streets dressed in un-Islamic attire, raising slogans with dual meanings with some outright objectionable and condemnation in the garb of women empowerment and rights portraying themselves as the champions of all the women in Pakistan, then they are playing another game and that has nothing to do with rights or empowerment.

Why don't you ask the women in your own house what they think of the aurat march?

Also, as you can see, in Pakistan, rapes of minors and women are no issue and don't cause public outrage.
Right!!!! And perhaps that's why a bill has been passed for public hanging of child molesters and rapers!



But, Aurat March causes public outrage and hurts some egos enough for them to initiate a court case on the basis of religion.

Welcome to the Naya Pakistan. Where nothing is as Quaid dreamt.
And here we go again, so in your own mind you have created an illusion that minors and women are raped without any public disgust and extreme anger and therefore aurat marches are justified.

You seriously need help.

Low IQ response, no offence.

Anything which doesn't hurt another person, and doesn't cause serious physical self harm, should be allowable.
Despite the act causing serious emotional and mental harm to others and even more to the society?

And what the hell does it even mean "mera jism meri marzi"?? Who is taking you by force anyway? Are men not marrying you legally and religiously to do the exact thing for which you were created? What the hell is this all about? What rights are being denied to these 'women'??
 

PAKjunoon

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One of the main issue of Feminist movement is that, they are creating a perception that all men are having the time of their life.

But on average men are leading a more tough life, as compared to women.

Men have been the biggest victim of terrorism.
Mean have died protecting the people of Pakistan from both internal and external threat.
Men are the ones who are languishing in jails without any justice for decades.
Men are doing the most dangerous jobs in the world.
Men are spending there whole money on their family without leaving anything for themselves.
Men are going abroad to do jobs under very severe condition, not able to return or see their loved ones for years at a time.
Men are the ones who protest on roads on the injustice of society.
Men are the first responder to any accident or attacks.

The list is infinite.

But do you see men complaining on streets? bashing women?

NO.

Because they know they are men, they are the stronger of the 2 genders. It's their responsibility to provide and protect for the women. It's their responsibility to fulfill the wishes of their family, even at the expense of his own peace and happiness.

Men and women are not equal. Respect the differences, and both genders will be happy.
 

American Pakistani

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@Desert Fox @AZ1 @LeGenD

People like @Alternatiiv have no clue what they are talking about. No offense (let me know anyone if anyone found this offensive ill delete it), tomorrow if women from your house start saying that men don't wear bra and some men don't wear shirt too(which i personally dislike too), so women should start doing it on basis of equality.

There is something called immorality and healthy society. Tomorrow if they will say we want beard and mustache and hairs all over...even Islam is against it.
 

LeGenD

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One of the main issue of Feminist movement is that, they are creating a perception that all men are having the time of their life.

But on average men are leading a more tough life, as compared to women.

Men have been the biggest victim of terrorism.
Mean have died protecting the people of Pakistan from both internal and external threat.
Men are the ones who are languishing in jails without any justice for decades.
Men are doing the most dangerous jobs in the world.
Men are spending there whole money on their family without leaving anything for themselves.
Men are going abroad to do jobs under very severe condition, not able to return or see their loved ones for years at a time.
Men are the ones who protest on roads on the injustice of society.
Men are the first responder to any accident or attacks.

The list is infinite.

But do you see men complaining on streets? bashing women?

NO.

Because they know they are men, they are the stronger of the 2 genders. It's their responsibility to provide and protect for the women. It's their responsibility to fulfill the wishes of their family, even at the expense of his own peace and happiness.

Men and women are not equal. Respect the differences, and both genders will be happy.
Brother, you are so so wrong. All men live like KINGS and are born billionnaires. Each is a receipient of imaginary benefits from the government since birth. Each is allowed to have multiple partners and even a harem. Each is allowed to create a private army. Each is given a job on a moment's notice. Each have the right to an expensive car and property since birth. Each is allowed to abuse women left right and center without consequences (even killing one is an option). The state has confined women to concentration camps actually. :rolleyes:

Women are so so oppressed in spite of being treated with respect in numerous professions, allowed to work, abuse their maids, marry a man of their choice, have children but do not bother with taking care of their needs, have parties, enjoy music and resturants, do lots of shopping, buy expensive cars and have properties. But they are so so oppressed regardless. :rolleyes:

Does it occur to Feminists that men and women actually live together and create families? That both men and women are susceptible to poverty, oppression and exploitation at the hands of powerful out there? That both men and women can be rich and successful? That both men and women can be underpriviliged? Or only women have problems in a society? :angry:
 

AZ1

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People like @Alternatiiv have no clue what they are talking about. No offense (let me know anyone if anyone found this offensive ill delete it), tomorrow if women from your house start saying that men don't wear bra and some men don't wear shirt too(which i personally dislike too), so women should start doing it on basis of equality.

There is something called immorality and healthy society. Tomorrow if they will say we want beard and mustache and hairs all over...even Islam is against it.
Thats why I am not replying to him on this issue. No one here is against rights of women but if Islam has boundaries for women as well as for men then dont know what he been taught to go against that and thinking he is above Islam.

These posters and women holding this things trying to give us picture that look its normal for women to come out and discuss these thing.

In 80',90's women had duppata in tv, drama and now no where to be found infact showing that its fine to have relation with guy go in hotel spend nights without marriage.
 
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