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Lessons for Pak Navy to learn from PAF 's struggle to develop aviation industry

Mar 8, 2021
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Pak Navy also wants to develop a naval warships manufacturing industry and is making some progress also in this department
PN can definitely learn many lessons of what not to do from PAF's struggle to develop an Aviation Industry

The major lesson I see is that never go alone for something big.Always search for some partner to achieve something extraordinary.

Partnership with other countries is the key in developing any military or non military industry.


Is PN going on right track?
We can see it by comparing to PAF 's roadmap.
And IMO PN is doing well until now.
 

Bleek

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There should be more co-operation between the tri-services when it comes to building indegenous capabilities. Running parallel institutions that have the same exact goal is stupid especially if it's only because they are owned by different service arms, a lot of the technologies used are common on most platforms.

We don't need every service running their own independent research ecosystem that serve the same purpose.

Also apart from joining large projects with friendly countries, we need to focus on building in-house capabilities at the foundation.

High tech R&D facilities, laboratories and research centres.

Increase education spending for STEM focused areas for schools and universities, and co-operate with other countries in this regard so we can foster and nurture indigenous talent, carry out research inside Pakistan.

Connect these to the research centres above.

For how long are we going to continously seek help from others? We must build a native ecosystem that is self-sustaining and build talent in house.
 
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Bilal Khan (Quwa)

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tbh it seems the Pak Navy is a doing much better job optimizing its resources than the PAF. This isn't to say the PN is in itself fantastic, but compared to the PAF thus far, they've been pretty good at selecting the right projects, off-the-shelf solutions, and indigenization initiatives.
 

Bleek

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tbh it seems the Pak Navy is a doing much better job optimizing its resources than the PAF. This isn't to say the PN is in itself fantastic, but compared to the PAF thus far, they've been pretty good at selecting the right projects, off-the-shelf solutions, and indigenization initiatives.
What indigenisation efforts has it made?
 

Bilal Khan (Quwa)

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What indigenisation efforts has it made?
It's primarily in original design work. The inputs are still sourced from abroad due to Pakistan's lack of industrial capacity. What the PAF seemed to have dreamt of with Project Azm, the PN is getting to that point in terms of surface ships and submarines. Of course, the big caveat being that while design and integration can be in-house, Pakistan will still rely on foreign suppliers for all of the critical inputs, like propulsion, electronics, munitions, etc.
 

CSAW

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There is another way of looking at this.

While PAF can compete and hold its own against arch rivals ,
The Pakistan Navy hibernated for almost 02 decades leaving the capability / size / edge gap much wide compared to Indian Navy.

Modern day littoral warfare environment encompasses maritime, air, land, space, cyber domains & information space.
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Quoting PLAN fleet as a case [Not that its for comparison purpose]

"During World War II, the U.S. had more than 50 public and private shipyards that could either build or repair ships in excess of 500 feet in length. Today, it has fewer than 20.

China, South Korea and Japan have become the world's top three shipbuilding nations in terms of gross tonnage, according to data from Statista.

According to the CSIS report, China constructed over a third of the world's vessels in 2019. They also produced 96% of the world's shipping containers and more than 80% of the world's ship-to-shore cranes.

China has 19 modern shipbuilding yards pumping out commercial and naval ships ; One of China's shipyards is so large that its capacity surpasses that of all U.S. shipbuilders combined.

Realizing that to develop a sophisticated, layered air defense for its most advanced combatants is need of hour . The need to augment it with Maritime Strike Capability, OTH Radars, Airborne Surveillance Platforms, Unmanned Recon / targeting Strike Maritime Drones, Unmanned Vessels, offensive Stand off Hypersonic SMART Cruise Missiles was also evident in Ukraine conflict.

Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI) projects that China will have 400 battle force ships by 2025 and 425 by 2030.

In recent years, the most notable upgrade to the PLA(N) surface force has been its shipboard area-air-defense (AAD) capability.

Only a decade ago, the longest-range shipborne surface-to-air missile (SAM) was the Crotale-based HHQ-7 (~7nm).

Currently the PLA(N) operates new ships with four different SAMs with varying degrees ofAAD capability.

These include :
Sovremennyy IIII and Luyang I class destroyers (DDGs) with the Russian SA-N-7 (~12-20nm)
Luzhou DDG with the Russian SA-N-20/RIF-M (~80nm)
Luyang II DDG with Chinese HHQ-9 (~55nm)
]iangkai II class frigate (FFG) with vertically-launched HHQ16 (~20-40nm).

These SAM systems are linked on their respective platforms with advanced air-surveillance systems, including the Russian Tombstone and Top Plate and Chinese Dragon Eye phased-array radar.

Incase of Conventional Submarines - The Song SS, Yuan SS, and Shang SSN are the PLA(N),s newest indigenous submarines, and the first to be designed to employ the YJ-82 ASCM in addition to the traditional weapons loadout of torpedoes and mines. The Yuan SS, China's most advanced diesel submarine, incorporates quieting technology.

In order to operationalize such combined naval warfare capabilities outside regional waters, modern navies require robust and integrated C4ISR support systems. China has made C4ISR modernization a top priority and PLA(N) "informationization" is progressing well, but continued progress is needed."

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If we take the thought process and compare ship building capabilities of Pakistan Navy with Turkey, India etc .... Questions unanswered.

The sourcing & supplier's choice by Pakistan Navy has primarily been French, China , Romania , Germany, Netherland , Italy & Turkiye.

The ability to develop an Eco system of industries, Public private partnership, getting ToT in real terms, developing engineers via academia, Material sciences and Testing infrastructure development ,,,,,, Leaving it there.


Thanks
 
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CivilianSupremacy

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While PAF can compete and hold its own against arch rivals ,
The Pakistan Navy hibernated for almost 02 decades leaving the capability / size / edge gap much wide compared to Indian Navy.

This is very true. Probably it was due to lack of funds during those 2 decades. But also mis-management and navy wasn't utilizing what it had.

They had Orama base since early 2000s but always keep stacking one base Karachi with entire naval fleet. A strategic blunder. It is only as recent as 2022 that we are seeing larger ships now being deployed to Ormara.

Secondly, the huge impact that created extreme negative image of Navy was its earlier leadership. The Agosta 90b mega corruption facts and when then Chief of Naval Staff and top 8 rear admirals being involved in taking millions of dollars as kickbacks was complete loss of confidence on it.

The failed ToTs of F-22P & Agosta 90b are another points. Why I say failed, because Navy itself said number of times that they will be building more Agosta 90b themselves. They even got copyrights and sale rights from france for additional bucks in view of building & selling subs for international customers. Forget building subs, Navy couldn't even upgrade its own subs. The entire ToT is lost. Navy made similar statements about F-22Ps that further and upgraded ones will be built after the 4th one (as F-22P-II). None was made and F-22P-II was just a ready-made / off the shelf Type-54As.

Also I can't praise enough for entire IT department of Pakistan navy for building such official website ( https://www.paknavy.gov.pk/) . This is really a joke for a professional service.

Anyways, I must also admit that lately signs of improvements are appearing, focus on right areas is seen. Ormara base is for the first time is deployed with subs and frigate along with FAC Azmat. I hope the Jinnah class frigate becomes a success. That would be a huge project for navy. Unfortunately, when things are going in right direction for navy the country is seeing unprecedented downward dive towards economic collapse. If it comes to defence cuts then I really hope Pak Army cut its own budget but not let the navy drop its main projects. Navy had waited for over 2 decades for this revival.
 

Erieye

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The Pakistan Navy should integrate their ecosystem in what NASTP has already built.

I agree with the above, we shouldn't have separate independent ecosystems running at the same time just for the sole fact that they are owned by different service arms.

Technology used should mostly overlap, and for the ones that don't, additional R&D laboratories can be opened.

Integrate it into a single national framework for all types of R&D... I think
 

Super Falcon

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Pak Navy also wants to develop a naval warships manufacturing industry and is making some progress also in this department
PN can definitely learn many lessons of what not to do from PAF's struggle to develop an Aviation Industry

The major lesson I see is that never go alone for something big.Always search for some partner to achieve something extraordinary.

Partnership with other countries is the key in developing any military or non military industry.


Is PN going on right track?
We can see it by comparing to PAF 's roadmap.
And IMO PN is doing well until now.
Big mistake was not signing U 214 Deal the amount of tech those brought would be in matchable
 

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