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Latest! Another NEW statement against Army coming - This time from Senator ???

mourning sage

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A threat to national security should involve ISI and establishment taking an action against the culprits. Silence on their part raises questions from those who actually feel the pain of the country. I question the motives behind the military's actions here. Will the military let these corrupt and traitors roam free and spew hatred against the country or will we see any action against them. Failure to act now is going to encourage them more.
 

Bilal.

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Thank you for reply on behalf of the other poster to whom asked this question, and for the millionth time nawaz sharif wani is NOT Punjabi he is a first generation kashmiri refugee he also had the habit of promoting fellow kashmiris in his party such as saad khawaja rafique khawaja ishaq dar etc. I am personally sick to death of punjabis being blamed and racially abused by the bigots on this forum for something that has nothing to do with us.
Sorry I took the liberty and apologies to him too for answering on his behalf. But he is a follower of NS, so it can be assumed who he is referring to. Personally, I have nothing against any of my Pakistanis, of any ethnic background.
 
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Marker

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Enjoy the fight b/w once pet and once masters. They both deceived the nation and now nature is taking revenge. How sweet.
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One must wonder : Will Pakistani Generals continue to protect corrupt Shehbaz Sharif?

This is a million dollar question which must be asked to EVERY Pakistani GENERAL.

Will Pakistan generals continue to support CORRUPT WADERAS?

Our BLOODY Future is at stake, guys.

Now or never moment !
Why such people were elected?

We the people of Pakistan should accept our blunder.
It is we who were electing such incompetent power hungry idiots since creation of Pakistan.
We are the one who let the army to rule Pakistan for many decades.
We are the one who did not use our right to vote to elect competent, honest and loyal Pakistanis

Pakistani citizens should now realize the importance of their votes. Right people must be elected for National and Provincial assemblies. Otherwise, such traitors will compromise the very existence of Pakistan.
 

FAROOQ RASHID BUTT

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The military should do absolutely nothing - this is domestic politics and it should be allowed to play out. People can petition or file an FIR against Ayaz Sadiq if they feel laws have been violated and let the constitutional, legal process play out.

With respect to ‘waderas’, it’s people in their constituencies who support them - challenging them is also a political decision that needs to be taken by an elected government.

We can still see how the military going after a corrupt, violent Sardar (Akbar Bugti) is still being used to malign the Army. So, again, military should stay out of this aside from their current approach to issue factual, professional rebuttals.
The reason for the recent or prolonged political controversy in Pakistan is that even the present government has not done anything for the welfare of the poor people.

Unfortunately, those who praised the army generals yesterday are making statements against the army today. Unfortunately, the current rulers have also been involved in propaganda against the Pakistani army and institutions in the past.

Politicians who were or are criticizing the credibility and role of the ُPakistan military for their dirty politics are very selfish and hypocritical. Who ever criticize Pakistan military and institutions , that traitor should be hanged on the road
 

Crystal-Clear

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Guys watch from 2:16

Enjoy the fight b/w once pet and once masters. They both deceived the nation and now nature is taking revenge. How sweet.


One must wonder : Will Pakistani Generals continue to protect corrupt Shehbaz Sharif?

This is a million dollar question which must be asked to EVERY Pakistani GENERAL.

Will Pakistan generals continue to support CORRUPT WADERAS?


Our BLOODY Future is at stake, guys.

Now or never moment !
bhai to state or establishment kiya kar rahi ha. in khabeeso ko kyun lagam ni lagai ja rahi?
 

Jungibaaz

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Thanks for the background @saiyan0321, the depth of your post is much appreciated. And I’m glad you’ve summarised the various legal decisions (PLDs) in lay terms for us.

I take it you more or less conclude that while parliamentary sovereignty is not absolute and all encompassing, and that parliamentarians can be held accountable for speech. That in this particular case, judging whether the member’s comments were truly seditious, and violated the constitution to the extent that court proceedings may be conducted against him is unlikely to be determined and a bit of a grey area? And that the courts who are also bound to respect the trichotomy might be also be reticent to take a view or act, unless absolutely compelled to do so by the severity of a statement? That is my takeaway from your comments, please elaborate if that’s not the case. I had an inkling that this would be the case, but it’s good to hear an opinion backed by actual intimate knowledge of jurisprudence on these matters, so thanks again for obliging us!
 

AgNoStiC MuSliM

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Since when was the constitution an ayat of the Quran? It is a document that can be amended.

We the membership didn't drag the army into anything - the snakes they bred are doing so. The army can drag itself into power like it has 4 times in the past when it suits its agenda, but we can't be critical? maybe we should join parliament where there is free reign.
You misunderstood my post - my comment wasn't directed at criticism of the Army, it was directed at people asking the Army to 'arrest X individual' or 'do Y thing' - issues that are the domain of the elected government.
 

RoadRunner401

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You misunderstood my post - my comment wasn't directed at criticism of the Army, it was directed at people asking the Army to 'arrest X individual' or 'do Y thing' - issues that are the domain of the elected government.
When I am on my bicycle, I hate the Moran pedestrian and dumb car drivers

When I am walking I can't stand the Idiots riding the bicycle and don't even get me started with the car drivers

When I am in my car somebody please do something about these bloody pedestrian and stupid bicycle riders.

This is what we dealing with..
The reason for the recent or prolonged political controversy in Pakistan is that even the present government has not done anything for the welfare of the poor people.
You mean with empty treasury and swimming in debt, Government hasn't done anything for the poor with in two years of its mandate :hitwall:
 
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saiyan0321

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Thanks for the background @saiyan0321, the depth of your post is much appreciated. And I’m glad you’ve summarised the various legal decisions (PLDs) in lay terms for us.

I take it you more or less conclude that while parliamentary sovereignty is not absolute and all encompassing, and that parliamentarians can be held accountable for speech. That in this particular case, judging whether the member’s comments were truly seditious, and violated the constitution to the extent that court proceedings may be conducted against him is unlikely to be determined and a bit of a grey area? And that the courts who are also bound to respect the trichotomy might be also be reticent to take a view or act, unless absolutely compelled to do so by the severity of a statement? That is my takeaway from your comments, please elaborate if that’s not the case. I had an inkling that this would be the case, but it’s good to hear an opinion backed by actual intimate knowledge of jurisprudence on these matters, so thanks again for obliging us!
You had it right. It is very similar to the hesitation courts show when striking down a law passed by parliament or when parliament hesitates to talk about overreaching judiciary. Here is an example in 1975 Bhutto had banned NAP political party but the case was brought to court and bhutto gave this speech

"He would not himself lift the ban on the National Awami Party about whose future only
the Supreme Court can take a decision. The Opposition Parties are dancing to the tune of
Afghanistan and have joined the Afghan Government's demand for the release of the
NAP Leadership. In our country we have tolerated Afgan and Congress agents for several
years but all our efforts have failed. We have now banned them and this ban can under no
circumstances be withdrawn. If the Supreme Court gives a decision to the contrary it is a
different matter but even then it will not be my decision ; it will not be the decision of the
people, and if in consequence of that decision, anything happened, the responsibility will
be the responsibility of the Supreme Court. If the Supreme Court in its wisdom or
according to its own understanding gives a decision against us then it will not be my
decision, or that of the people but will be the decision of the Supreme Court. We will
accept this decision but the responsibility for the consequence will be that of the Supreme
Court. In spite of this if need be to save Pakistan we will fight in the hills, in the jungles
and in the plains . . . . . . . ."


Now zahur elahi went to court stating this was a threat to the court and frankly bhutto meant it half as such that the responsibility of what will follow will not be our fault but the SC that will be responsible. Hamoodur Rehman was the judge and despite him interpreting Article 248 and responsibility of state in implementing judicial orders and being part of the governing system, he still dismissed the petition by focusing on the 'We will accept court decision part' and stating that it was no threat to the court but a mere statement. The court shirked away from this and it has happened before because interference into the others domain is something the powers avoid doing.

Infact in the famous nawaz sharif disqualification case, the court clarified that his parliamentary speech itself was not the reason perse but the differing statements within two different statements is where the question of sadiq and ameen comes note. So the court stated that he was not being punished for speaking in parliament but the two different versions and statements.

In the words of the court
'The Prime Minister was not being proceeded against for making a speech the speech but said speech was being utilized inh the present proceedings only for collateral purpose to determine as to whether he had been making divergent statements on the same issue at different occasions or not and as to whether has been honest in the matter'
 
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crankthatskunk

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h
Guys watch from 2:16

Enjoy the fight b/w once pet and once masters. They both deceived the nation and now nature is taking revenge. How sweet.


One must wonder : Will Pakistani Generals continue to protect corrupt Shehbaz Sharif?

This is a million dollar question which must be asked to EVERY Pakistani GENERAL.

Will Pakistan generals continue to support CORRUPT WADERAS?


Our BLOODY Future is at stake, guys.

Now or never moment !
Yes, they are. Shahbaz Sharif isn't stupid, he knew the story of both sides. He knew what his party was planning.

He also knew what is the point of view of Gate 4 in Rawalpindi. He had been meeting with them regularly.
So, he consulted and decided not to extend his bail, as a consequences he ended up in the prison, deliberately.

Now he can claim he was never involved in any attacks on the army. Same way the Generals would see he is clean as a whistle. Some cases are already dropped because the records were burned by Shahbaz in Lahore Plaza fires.

Novel way to escape justice. Just burn the record , viola you are off the hook.
Is there any state like Pakistan in the world!!!
Nope, not a long mile.
 

niaz

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Don’t think it is a matter of Constitution or of parliamentary privileges. In my humble opinion country’s security is paramount and the Pakistan Constitution becomes irrelevant if Pakistan is broken up or loses all or part of her territory.

Ayaz Sadiq seriously compromised Pakistan’s security by alleging that Pakistan’s Army Chief and her Foreign Minister were shaking in their knees at the thought of India attacking Pakistan! He may get away with it but right or wrong; his disclosure about the incident was an act of treason.

Everyone knows that I have little regard for PTI and for the Taliban Khan, but this does not mean that I would condone anyone who compromises the security of my motherland.

In my view, at the very least, Ayaz Sadiq should be disqualified and barred from holding any public office for the rest of his life.
 

YeBeWarned

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Punjabi,Sindhi and Pathan Politicians can sell this country, threat Army , or even attack them and still hold position of Power and allowed to do politics , but we have seen how Altaf was handled , and later his party was kicked out of Pakistan's Politics once and for all, but same will not be done with Punjabis , Pathans and Sindhi or Baluchi because this country is fcuked up ..
 

IceCold

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Instead of dragging army into everything, we the people of Islamic Republic of Pakistan also need to play our part. The reason these traitors/clowns are in the parliament because a large chunk of the society voted them and still continue to support them. The fight has now come down to us and them, people who voted for change versus the status quo.
 

Jamie Brooks

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The Army brass messed up badly, when they interfered in politics then they should have had the ballz to have hone through with it.... but no support puppet and corrupt PTI regime while cracking down on others was the worst decision ever, public opinion of army is all time low.... The army’s plan totally backfired. 2 ways they could have avoided this, either sided with pmln who were clearly more popular with the public , but a certain group of generals had major disagreements with the sharifs family, if they could have put their differences aside pakistan would have been much better off, the other way was clearly fazeing PTI off and going full dictatorship, but nooo they had to sit behind the worst and most incompetent party ever thinking they would wipe off the competition by forcing it upon people! Hell this was by far the worst decision, PTI’s incompetency plus opposition throwing mud has degraded army’s image so bad. What else did they expect after they forced this upon the opposition, awam itni dumb nahi ha keh pichle saal se woh bethi rahee gii, even in inner circle of army 2 groups of opposing thoughts have formed, i have seen friends and teachers who praised army go towards hating it all under the good rulership of Bajwa sahib, of course I cannot keep on defending army cause most of my family is in it and a blind eye towards all this, this will keep on creating civil unrest courtesy of your opposition and the enemies will keep on taking advantage while our services are busy standing up against the opposition. Bravo to people who took us on this path and expected wonders to happen. Only way i see normalization happening is when the top brass mends ties with the opposition, especially ganja sharif sahib. The system they want to put into place will only work when you have a competent government by your side, pmln hate them or love them they Have some real good and competent bunch of ppl who are now also against. I know for a fact that after the decision was made by one particular individual the army wasted alot of resources trying to destabilize pmln during their last 3 years of tenure. Either they should have balled up and gone for a dictatorship or then don’t chomp your own feet if you couldn’t get along with pmln. It saddens me to see The current affairs of pakistan, our soilder dying and on the news army fighting the opposition, absolutely failed action plan.
 

mikkix

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Bajwa should go now. Some of the core commanders and major generals are not happy with Bajwa and they are behind this nuisance.
 

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