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Korean War June 25, 1950: U.S. beaten by revolutionary war

faithfulguy

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US was the superior force with advance technology, largest air cover and naval power during Korea war. Korea situated by the surrounding ocean only N.K border with China. The surround water in Korea allowed U.N naval force to reenforce their front line with fire power and air raid on Chinese army penetration. With no air force or naval force, Chinese army without heavy artillery managed to push U.N force back to the 38 parallel was the major victory in it self. Imagine if China have the air cover and naval power of the U.S, Korea would be unite under N.K government. This is the fact that, China great strategist halted U.S intention of unified Korea and divide Korea into South and North Korea as today.
Its true that US military did not respect Chinese military and its ability before Korean War. And to win in Korea, US can only win by taking the battle to China. As US was not willing to do that, its fortunate that Korea was divided today.
 

shuntmaster

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China without much of military technology, no air force, no naval force, no tank or heavy artillery able to force the U.N retreat to the south of 38 parallel. China and N.K sacrificed many lives to gain the key strategic victory after the U.N force pushed their way up north and about to encroach into China territory.
China got support from USSR with all the weapons and hardware. Chinese used human wave strategy in the war. China also had the advantage of sharing the border with Korea. The biggest problem for the forces on Southern side was logistics. Everything had to be shipped from overseas. US was fighting a war across the ocean, whereas for China and USSR it was right across the border.
 

faithfulguy

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You mean how American history books lie about America doing all the fighting against Japan in WW2? China fought Japan from 1937 to 1941 for four years before America entered the war. The front line with Japan stabilized in 1940 before Pearl Harbor happened.

After the Japanese were halted in 1940, in 1941 they flattened all of the west's southeast asian colonies and overran entire southeast asia except parts of new guinea in several months. The American ruled Philippines was overrun.

Your American history books lie about the war. They claim China let America do all the fighting against Japan and was saving its soldiers for the civil war. They do not mention that China was fighting a two front war with both the Soviet Union and Japan. The Soviet Union attacked China in Xinjiang in 1937 and in 1944 during the Ili Rebellion. In 1942, China infiltrated tens of thousands of soldiers into Xinjiang to wrest it from the pro Soviet governor Sheng Shicai. After taking over the province the Sovits attacked in 1944 and over 100,000 Chinese soldiers were fighting the Red Army.

None of these are found in American history books on WW2.
American history book would naturally emphasize on US contribution. Russia on Russian contribution and Chinese and Chinese contribution. So its fair. As long as there are no blatant lies such as India existed before British created it, then its reasonably acceptable.
 

shuntmaster

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US was the superior force with advance technology, largest air cover and naval power during Korea war. Korea situated by the surrounding ocean only N.K border with China. The surround water in Korea allowed U.N naval force to reenforce their front line with fire power and air raid on Chinese army penetration. With no air force or naval force, Chinese army without heavy artillery managed to push U.N force back to the 38 parallel was the major victory in it self. Imagine if China have the air cover and naval power of the U.S, Korea would be unite under N.K government. This is the fact that, China great strategist halted U.S intention of unified Korea and divide Korea into South and North Korea as today.
I suppose the war started with North attacking the South. They almost succeeded when they pushed the southern forces almost into the sea. Thats when US entered the war and pushed back the Northern forces up to the Chinese border.
 

faithfulguy

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China got support from USSR with all the weapons and hardware. Chinese used human wave strategy in the war. China also had the advantage of sharing the border with Korea. The biggest problem for the forces on Southern side was logistics. Everything had to be shipped from overseas. US was fighting a war across the ocean, whereas for China and USSR it was right across the border.
US did thought that it would be home for Christmas by name it the Fall 1950 campaign "Home by Christmas Campaign" US military counted the chicken before they were hatched. The rest was history.

US military was much more advanced compare to Chinese military. but Korean War was just after WWII and technology advantages back then mattered not as much as it is now. Boots on the group counted more back then. So its naturally that US would encountered issues when faced Chinese army. In Vietnam, US wouldn't invade North Vietnam because of possible Chinese intrusion.
 

Wholegrain

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American history book would naturally emphasize on US contribution. Russia on Russian contribution and Chinese and Chinese contribution. So its fair. As long as there are no blatant lies such as India existed before British created it, then its reasonably acceptable.
I've seen blatant lies in American history books on WW2 like "China was not fighting Japan and keeping soldiers for the civil war and leeching off American aid". Sheng Shicai, the Soviet Union and the Ili Rebellion are nowhere to be found. No mention is made of the over 100,000 soldiers diverted to fight the Red Army. Chiang and the Hui warlord Ma Bufang were working to recover Xinjiang and Tibet for the central government. Ma diverted many of his Hui and Salar soldiers to Xinjiang. He already sent a division to fight Japan but alot were sent to Xinjiang instead.
 

sincity

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China got support from USSR with all the weapons and hardware. Chinese used human wave strategy in the war. China also had the advantage of sharing the border with Korea. The biggest problem for the forces on Southern side was logistics. Everything had to be shipped from overseas. US was fighting a war across the ocean, whereas for China and USSR it was right across the border.



Soviet didn't fight the war. Soviet only support minimal ammunition without much of heavy equipment except for couple of squadron of Mig fighter.
 

faithfulguy

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I've seen blatant lies in American history books on WW2 like "China was not fighting Japan and keeping soldiers for the civil war and leeching off American aid". Sheng Shicai, the Soviet Union and the Ili Rebellion are nowhere to be found. No mention is made of the over 100,000 soldiers diverted to fight the Red Army. Chiang and the Hui warlord Ma Bufang were working to recover Xinjiang and Tibet for the central government. Ma diverted many of his Hui and Salar soldiers to Xinjiang. He already sent a division to fight Japan but alot were sent to Xinjiang instead.
Lets put it this way, US text books make D day as the decisive battle in Europe. But real history is different. Its Stalingrad that crippled Germans in WWII. US focus on its contributions such as Operation Torch, Casablanca, Tunisian campaign, Italian campaign, D-Day, Western Europe. Battle of Bulge ,etc. But guess what, it does not matter. US will only focus on its contribution. Russia on theirs and Chinese on theirs. Even Indians focus on its contribution even though it didn't exist during WWII. If you want to learn more about Chinese contribution in WWII, you probably can find such a course in upper division Chinese civil war history class for students majoring in Chinese history. You will not find it else where.
 

ViXuyen

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The reason why Korea is still divided (probably forever) because two supa bowa committed combatant troops on each side of Korea. Had it been only one supa bowa sending combatant troops, Korea would have been united today.
 

shuntmaster

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Soviet didn't fight the war. Soviet only support minimal ammunition without much of heavy equipment except for couple of squadron of Mig fighter.
Soviets committed 26,000 troops in Korean war. Though its insignificant in relation to 1.3million Chinese troops, the equipment they brought had a big impact.

On the Southern side, the Koreans formed 2/3rd and US & its allies formed 1/3rd of the troops. On the Northern side, towards the end of the war, Chinese formed over 80% of the troops.
 

jhungary

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You mean how American history books lie about America doing all the fighting against Japan in WW2? China fought Japan from 1937 to 1941 for four years before America entered the war. The front line with Japan stabilized in 1940 before Pearl Harbor happened.

After the Japanese were halted in 1940, in 1941 they flattened all of the west's southeast asian colonies and overran entire southeast asia except parts of new guinea in several months. The American ruled Philippines was overrun.

Your American history books lie about the war. They claim China let America do all the fighting against Japan and was saving its soldiers for the civil war. They do not mention that China was fighting a two front war with both the Soviet Union and Japan. The Soviet Union attacked China in Xinjiang in 1937 and in 1944 during the Ili Rebellion. In 1942, China infiltrated tens of thousands of soldiers into Xinjiang to wrest it from the pro Soviet governor Sheng Shicai. After taking over the province the Sovits attacked in 1944 and over 100,000 Chinese soldiers were fighting the Red Army.

None of these are found in American history books on WW2.
So, you are changing from

Any time America gets humiliated it also gets deleted from the history books.


Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...s-beaten-revolutionary-war.html#ixzz2YPw6P4sO
to

You mean how American history books lie about America doing all the fighting against Japan in WW2?

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...beaten-revolutionary-war-2.html#ixzz2YPwKqCEc
Wow, hopping argument, you do not have any point on Humiliating US defeat anymore??

Ok, i will mate you this time just to teach you some history

You mean how American history books lie about America doing all the fighting against Japan in WW2?
First of all, show me 1 evidence that US history book say US Alone fighting against Japan in WW2. Give me one example. The version i studied show US was helped by Australia in New Guinea Campaign and the Commonwealth (British, India, Canada) in East Asia campaign and Nationalist China in West Asia (Burma) campaign, i don't know why you never heard of Claire Lee Chennault and his flying tiger, i remember when i was a kid, HE AND THE 1st American Volunteer Group (Flying Tiger) of the Chinese Air Force were my hero.

Second of all How do you define WW2 if you were an American. 1939 when Germany Occupied Poland? Or the japanese Machuria invasion starting 7/7 or 918 incident? Or the japanese attack on Pearl Harbor and Declare war to America??

Fact is, AVG was taught even in 6th Grade History, and if you can find ANY Textbook who literally says "America alone win the WW2 in the pacific" I am all ears. Otherwise i can say a lot of stuff too, and blowing hotair, without reference supporting evidence, i count them all BS.

China fought Japan from 1937 to 1941 for four years before America entered the war. The front line with Japan stabilized in 1940 before Pearl Harbor happened.
I don't really know where you get your difinition of "Stablize", Chinese dictionary perhaps??

How would you call Stablize when Japan and China keep fighing and gaining ground and losing ground from both size??
So, by calling the forntline is Stablize in 1940, you are denialing the following incursion and battle never happened

Sichuan invasion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (Sept 1942 - 1943 - Chinese Victory)
Battle of Zaoyang (Jan 1940 - June 1940 - Chinese Victory)
Battle of Shanggao - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ( March 1941- April 1941 - Chinese Victory)
Zhejiang-Jiangxi Campaign - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (May to September 1942 - Japanese Victory)
Battle of Changsha (1942) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ( Dec 1941 - Jan 1942 - Chinese Victory)
Battle of Hong Kong - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (Dec 1941 - Japanese Victory)
Battle of South Shanxi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (May 1941 - Japanese Vioctory)
Battle of Yunnan-Burma Road - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (March 1942 - June 1942 Japanese Victory)
Battle of Changde - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (Nov 1943 - Dec 1943 Japanese Victory)

I can list more if you want, but i think i have enough to prove my point. So you are saying with war warging and land ceding and gaining on both side, Chinese have a "Stable" front to the japanese? Maybe it's logical in China, i don't think it's logical anywhere

After the Japanese were halted in 1940, in 1941 they flattened all of the west's southeast asian colonies and overran entire southeast asia except parts of new guinea in several months. The American ruled Philippines was overrun.
Japanese WERE NEVER HALTED in 1940 as you said and a Stablised front NEVER materialize.

Our history book do cover Bataan Death march and the fall of Manlia. So, what's your point??

Your American history books lie about the war. They claim China let America do all the fighting against Japan and was saving its soldiers for the civil war. They do not mention that China was fighting a two front war with both the Soviet Union and Japan. The Soviet Union attacked China in Xinjiang in 1937 and in 1944 during the Ili Rebellion. In 1942, China infiltrated tens of thousands of soldiers into Xinjiang to wrest it from the pro Soviet governor Sheng Shicai. After taking over the province the Sovits attacked in 1944 and over 100,000 Chinese soldiers were fighting the Red Army.


Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...beaten-revolutionary-war-2.html#ixzz2YQ1SCFeF
Dude, do you know what you are talkinga 'bout??
You are saying that American History book should record any and EVERY individual battle and study them in our school. History book record history by their "Historial Significant Value" Even with a war we are currently fighting, history are recording according to Value, not every battle, if we do record EVERY SINGLE DETAIL in our history book, then your life is probably ended BEFORE you can go thru Middle Ages History.

What that historial significant do with differnt group of people also a key point of getting it recorded too. I mean Battle of Fallujah is important and significant to me, does that mean you or the average jack and jill need to hear about how my squad and my company is ambushed by the insurgent??

The Ili Rebellion (三區革命) is important to Chinese and Russian, but is it that important to American we have to learn them? NO Because if we do, why don't we stop there, the Russo-swedish war is very important to Russian and Swedish too, i think the American History book should also a detail account of the Russo-Swedish war and the thirty years war which also important because of the Religious value. It's the birth of Protestant which is one of the majority religion in the US, we should also learn that then LMFAO.

By the way, some Historian Suggest Ili Rebellion were NOT PART of WW2 as
A.) The belligent is China and USSR, where USSR is NEUTRAL in the WW2 in pacific front.
B.) The conflict ended with Communist China took over Xijiang, which should be considered part of Civil war of China, NOT WW2

all in all, the stuff that you said did not mention in history book simply because they are NOT significant enough for General American to learn them. If you are a student of Sino-Russia Relation in the United States, you will learn them, i hardly think those stuff you need to know in grade school or still in matriculation.

That is different then hiding the fact that SARS is rampant in China and hiding the fact that what really happen in Tianenmen Square. Those stuff are IMPORTANT and significant for Chinese, yet you can't learn them in Chinese History book. Or an Altered version have been supplied

So, as far as i concern, you are full of shxt, sir
 

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