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Nilgiri

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If you are.talking of Ponniyin Selvan, take a second look on my user name. It's one of my fav ever. :)
Ponniyin Selvan was his most famous work....in the thick of the Chola drama.

He wrote couple prequels to it (that I was talking about):

Sivagamiyin Sapatham (Pallava emperor and his son story, their sustained fight against Chalukyas...father was defeated, his son avenged this)

Parthiban Kanavu (The son in previous story is now the emperor...but Parthiban Chola, vassal chieftain, gets his dream...and along with his son commences the Chola awakening...which will be finally fulfilled some 300 years later in events of ponniyin selvan with your namesake :D)


I would by middle Pallavas they had become Tamils by intermarrying. Most of their edicts are in Sanksrit and Tamil.
Yah I am just saying originally. Tamil itself underwent significant changes we carry to this day under Pallavas. In fact first story I mention starts with reference to Appar...we both know where he stands in Tamil literature and culture :)

They Pallavas were Tamilified quite quickly...they hold a crowning place in our history and formation as a people today.... right alongside the "more local" Sangam trio. No doubt.

The kalabhra mystery that Joe references is very interesting to look into too...they have been given a biased take for a long time....its overdue the further research that is happening more recently.

@Joe Shearer @TheGreatMaratha @Gibbs @Syama Ayas @Arulmozhi Varman @Chhatrapati

(Original thread closed now...so I figured I can maybe move to this quiet one...because "Whatever" didn't feel like a great place for it, Chera state in Tamilakam after all :) )
 

Arulmozhi Varman

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Ponniyin Selvan was his most famous work....in the thick of the Chola drama.

He wrote couple prequels to it (that I was talking about):

Sivagamiyin Sapatham (Pallava emperor and his son story, their sustained fight against Chalukyas...father was defeated, his son avenged this)

Parthiban Kanavu (The son in previous story is now the emperor...but Parthiban Chola, vassal chieftain, gets his dream...and along with his son commences the Chola awakening...which will be finally fulfilled some 300 years later in events of ponniyin selvan with your namesake :D)




Yah I am just saying originally. Tamil itself underwent significant changes we carry to this day under Pallavas. In fact first story I mention starts with reference to Appar...we both know where he stands in Tamil literature and culture :)

They Pallavas were Tamilified quite quickly...they hold a crowning place in our history and formation as a people today.... right alongside the "more local" Sangam trio. No doubt.

The kalabhra mystery that Joe references is very interesting to look into too...they have been given a biased take for a long time....its overdue the further research that is happening more recently.

@Joe Shearer @TheGreatMaratha @Gibbs @Syama Ayas @Arulmozhi Varman @Chhatrapati

(Original thread closed now...so I figured I can maybe move to this quiet one...because "Whatever" didn't feel like a great place for it, Chera state in Tamilakam after all :) )
I have heard about the other 2 and people had asked me to look into it. But never knew it was Kalki's. Have to go through it. Thanks for the info.
 

Joe Shearer

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Ponniyin Selvan was his most famous work....in the thick of the Chola drama.

He wrote couple prequels to it (that I was talking about):

Sivagamiyin Sapatham (Pallava emperor and his son story, their sustained fight against Chalukyas...father was defeated, his son avenged this)

Parthiban Kanavu (The son in previous story is now the emperor...but Parthiban Chola, vassal chieftain, gets his dream...and along with his son commences the Chola awakening...which will be finally fulfilled some 300 years later in events of ponniyin selvan with your namesake :D)




Yah I am just saying originally. Tamil itself underwent significant changes we carry to this day under Pallavas. In fact first story I mention starts with reference to Appar...we both know where he stands in Tamil literature and culture :)

They Pallavas were Tamilified quite quickly...they hold a crowning place in our history and formation as a people today.... right alongside the "more local" Sangam trio. No doubt.

The kalabhra mystery that Joe references is very interesting to look into too...they have been given a biased take for a long time....its overdue the further research that is happening more recently.

@Joe Shearer @TheGreatMaratha @Gibbs @Syama Ayas @Arulmozhi Varman @Chhatrapati

(Original thread closed now...so I figured I can maybe move to this quiet one...because "Whatever" didn't feel like a great place for it, Chera state in Tamilakam after all :) )
THIS was the right time to read it, during the lock-down; as you must already know, there are several English translations. Unfortunately, the 56 incher who is worshipped in immaterial form by at least one whom you have tagged has banned books from essential items. Figures.

You must all who have read at least the plot synopsis seen the more than passing resemblances to Game of Thrones.

We have no equivalent in Bengali. Bankimchandra, although such a masterful writer, completely in command of his language, and a spinner of yarns of at least the level of Walter Scott (personally, I consider Bankim superior; he had tighter plot lines) wrote no connected mega-series like this. His stories, powerful as they were, and they were very powerful, were stand-alone, isolates.

For those who are interested, you must read Devi Chaudhurani, about the spurned and despised wife who made herself a terror in the land, and whose husband finally found himself wooing her without knowing that she was the same abandoned wife; and Durgesh Nandini, the Castellan's Daughter, a gripping tale where Man Singh's son, expanding the Mughal rule of Akbar Padshah as his own father's able lieutenant, clashes with the Pathan overlords of Bengal and Odisha, meets his match in the elegant, chivalrous Pathan prince, breaks the heart of his sister, helplessly, and carries away, in the teeth of all odds, the fallen Castellan's daughter whom the Pathan prince loved passionately; and perhaps, Ananda Math, centred in famine and the Sanyasi Rebellion, in which book the author, a Sub-District Magistrate and a British minion in real life, vented all his rage and frustration at the rulers in the contempt for the Company's forces expressed by the Sanyasis.

Maybe after the lock-down.....

@Pashtuni

If you want to read what one of the greatest Bengali novelist, in fact, the first novelist, wrote about Pathans, try to get an English translation of Durgesh Nandini (its proper and original rendering was as one word, Durgeshnandini, you might have to look carefully). What he writes about the chivalry and generosity of the Pathans suitably answers those who think him to be a Hindu-first bigot. Hindu-first, yes, bigot, no.
 

Nilgiri

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as you must already know, there are several English translations. Unfortunately, the 56 incher who is worshipped in immaterial form by at least one whom you have tagged has banned books from essential items. Figures.
E-books :D ... I think they (english translations) are on google play.

You must all who have read at least the plot synopsis seen the more than passing resemblances to Game of Thrones.
Many myriad of famous series come to mind. I suppose GoT is the most current fashion.

you must read Devi Chaudhurani
Bandit lady :)

Yes its on my (ever increasing list)....I watched the movie (with ever lovely Suchitra Sen) with translation/commentary help by BD brother of mine many years ago.

Been wanting to read the story.

Hehe, your two other suggestions are classics, already read here. He is an all time great author for Bengal and India. Vande Mataram.
 

Joe Shearer

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E-books :D ... I think they (english translations) are on google play.



Many myriad of famous series come to mind. I suppose GoT is the most current fashion.



Bandit lady :)

Yes its on my (ever increasing list)....I watched the movie (with ever lovely Suchitra Sen) with translation/commentary help by BD brother of mine many years ago.

Been wanting to read the story.

Hehe, your two other suggestions are classics, already read here. He is an all time great author for Bengal and India. Vande Mataram.
As you have read Durgesh Nandini, could you please tell whichever narrow-minded peasant may be reading that Bankim was not a bigot? That final scene where Ayesha decorates the bride with priceless jewels before vanishing for ever reminded me so much of Rebecca taking her farewell of Ivanhoe and of England.
 

Joe Shearer

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E-books :D ... I think they (english translations) are on google play.



Many myriad of famous series come to mind. I suppose GoT is the most current fashion.



Bandit lady :)

Yes its on my (ever increasing list)....I watched the movie (with ever lovely Suchitra Sen) with translation/commentary help by BD brother of mine many years ago.

Been wanting to read the story.

Hehe, your two other suggestions are classics, already read here. He is an all time great author for Bengal and India. Vande Mataram.
If you ever do get to read Devi Chaudhurani, the description of her training over five years by the brigand chieftain Bhawani Pathak was a classic. The embodiment of the Greek sentiment, everything in moderation.
 
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Yah I am just saying originally. Tamil itself underwent significant changes we carry to this day under Pallavas. In fact first story I mention starts with reference to Appar...we both know where he stands in Tamil literature and culture :)

They Pallavas were Tamilified quite quickly...they hold a crowning place in our history and formation as a people today.... right alongside the "more local" Sangam trio. No doubt.

The kalabhra mystery that Joe references is very interesting to look into too...they have been given a biased take for a long time....its overdue the further research that is happening more recently.

@Joe Shearer @TheGreatMaratha @Gibbs @Syama Ayas @Arulmozhi Varman @Chhatrapati

(Original thread closed now...so I figured I can maybe move to this quiet one...because "Whatever" didn't feel like a great place for it, Chera state in Tamilakam after all :) )
Didn't understand most of what you said but I always think that South Indians have played a crucial role in spreading our Sanatana Dharma philosophies and languages far and wide. The Vijayanagar empire was a massive and prosperous empire too. I have been to South India and South India has by far the best temples in India. Have been to Mahabalipuram and Kanchipuram. Unfortunately, haven't yet seen Hampi but saw on Epic channel about the musical pillars over there and would love to visit that place some day.

I think Shivaji Maharaj was inspired by Vijayanagar empire as even he had been to Bengaluru when he was quite young. Although, the empire had collapsed by then but the memories would certainly have remained.

Coming to the point of Pallavas, I think they ruled only a fraction of what is present day Tamil Nadu maybe a little upwards from Kanchi. They had to contend with the Cheras and Pandyas to the South and South-West. Also, there were the Chalukyas at the North-West. One Pallava king had captured Badami, the capital of the Chalukyas for about 12 years. Their language must have been Telugu, Prakrit and Tamil based on the regions where the king was ruling. But since they had Kanchi as the capital which is present day TN, they might have slowly adopted Tamil.

Let me know if I have gone wrong anywhere.
 
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Nilgiri

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Didn't understand most of what you said but I always think that South Indians have played a crucial role in spreading our Sanatana Dharma philosophies and languages far and wide. The Vijayanagar empire was a massive and prosperous empire too. I have been to South India and South India has by far the best temples in India. Have been to Mahabalipuram and Kanchipuram. Unfortunately, haven't yet seen Hampi but saw on Epic channel about the musical pillars over there and would love to visit that place some day.

I think Shivaji Maharaj was inspired by Vijayanagar empire as even he had been to Bengaluru when he was quite young. Although, the empire had collapsed by then but the memories would certainly have remained.

Coming to the point of Pallavas, I think they ruled only a fraction of what is present day Tamil Nadu maybe a little upwards from Kanchi. They had to contend with the Cheras and Pandyas to the South and South-West. Also, there were the Chalukyas at the North-West. One Pallava king had captured Badami, the capital of the Chalukyas for about 12 years. Their language must have been Telugu, Prakrit and Tamil based on the regions where the king was ruling. But since they had Kanchi as the capital which is present day TN, they might have slowly adopted Tamil.

Let me know if I have gone wrong anywhere.
More or less spot on.

Would like to add we have utmost respect for Shivaji Maharaj...the deepest deepest respect and reverence.

Thanjavur had maratha kingdom there for while actually. A big patron of arts, culture and literature during the tenure.
 
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More or less spot on.

Would like to add we have utmost respect for Shivaji Maharaj...the deepest deepest respect and reverence.

Thanjavur had maratha kingdom there for while actually. A big patron of arts, culture and literature during the tenure.
A question came to my mind. Some people call Shivaji Maharaj as Shivrai. Is the 'rai' taken from the great Rayas of Vijaynagar? Even in the Panipat (which is one of the worst movies), Kriti Sanon keeps calling Arjun Kapoor (Sadashivrao) as 'raya'. Also, is 'rao' and 'raya'/'rai' related to each other?
@Joe Shearer @Andhadhun
 

Andhadhun

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A question came to my mind. Some people call Shivaji Maharaj as Shivrai. Is the 'rai' taken from the great Rayas of Vijaynagar? Even in the Panipat (which is one of the worst movies), Kriti Sanon keeps calling Arjun Kapoor (Sadashivrao) as 'raya'. Also, is 'rao' and 'raya'/'rai' related to each other?
@Joe Shearer @Andhadhun
"rai" is the sanskrit word for wealth or prosperity. It also means property or pocession.

Shivrai is the golden age of prosperity during Shivaji's rule. Shivaji minted copper currency which was called "Shivrai". This currency was later used by the Maratha empire. The peshwa minted "Dudandi Shivrais" to distinguish from the older currency. Later the british minted the Shivrai currency in poona.

Calling Sadashivrao as Raya would be the equivalent of calling him Sri Sadashivrao , where "Sri" is the name of goddess laxmi.
 

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