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Keel laying of 3rd Type-054A Frigate and 2nd MILGEM Corvette were held - DGPR Navy

ziaulislam

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Gov't should not get involved, let the private sector do it, Gov't owned will just turn into another PIA / Steel Mill / PR or similar. However, Pak Gov't should encourage further development by providing incentives for the builders and the merchant companies.

There is Pak National Shipping Corp, it should be encouraged to expand and grow.

PS: Had friends that went to work for 'Gokal Shipping & Trading Co ,' not sure if it's still around after the BCCI scandal, would love to know. I applied to the , 'Fleetwood Merchant Navy College,' outside of Blackpool and was seeking Dry Scholarship through Gokal' a requirement at that time to get admission there. ( My dad was going to pay tuition, ) so no cost to Gokal but they were kind of woshy washy on it as we had no inside track, then I moved to good 'ol USA instead and rest as they say is history.
Govt should involve but let private sector take lead
In the west thr govt always get involves
Where do u think boeing all r&d came from

Create a shipping comapnies by giving incentives if the buy locally and provide cheap working capital
Without govt involvement nothing will happen
 

imranyounus

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Improvements in any system is a must to keep pace with ground realities. The problem with Pakistan is that we have a limited acquisition potential. so our system need improvements even after limited induction. Same is case with Azmat. with PN now looking at new type of missile it will need improvement in existing system like Azmat.

Full-fledged private defense industry can't be practical with limited acquisitions and demand. Rather a government private sector partnership is needed. where private sector can come handy with dual use product to keep costs down and also build private engineering industry.
 

MIRauf

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Govt should involve but let private sector take lead
In the west thr govt always get involves
Where do u think boeing all r&d came from

Create a shipping comapnies by giving incentives if the buy locally and provide cheap working capital
Without govt involvement nothing will happen
Normally: DoD / Airforce or Navy asks Boeing to develop a certain type of Fighter for them and gives them funds for it. Boeing ( it's shareholders ) foot the bill for Commercial Liners, US Gov't or DoD doesn't give Boeing $ to go build a 777 / 787 / 737 / 7x7 or upgraded variant based on what the Airliners are looking for. Now DoD / Airforce may ask Boeing to build KC-46 based on a commercial airliner and give $ funds towards it, but not to go build a brand spanking new Commercial Airliner and turn it to AAR tanker.

Exceptions: In recent times and as in the past, US Gov't has injected $ funds to these firms to keep them running and people employed but did not directly push pressure to hire Republicans or Democrats depending up on who's in the Oval Office.

If Pak Gov't needs to be involved then to extent of what is needed for the PN, not what Commercial Shipping needs. Give the Industry tax incentive, guarantee that local MP and such will not throw hurdles in the build unless palms are greased.

Imagine, Gokal needs to buy Ship or have Ships built by Gokal Ship Building, Noon Gov't demands that they will give Gokal lump sum of $Millions for it but they ( Gokal in return must hire 5k noon leaguer. ) Then rinse and repeat same with PPP or any other Party in the Center.
 
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Bilal Khan (Quwa)

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Normally: DoD / Airforce or Navy asks Boeing to develop a certain type of Fighter for them and gives them funds for it. Boeing ( it's shareholders ) foot the bill for Commercial Liners, US Gov't or DoD doesn't give Boeing $ to go build a 777 / 787 / 737 / 7x7 or upgraded variant based on what the Airliners are looking for. Now DoD / Airforce may ask Boeing to build KC-46 based on a commercial airliner and give $ funds towards it, but not to go build a brand spanking new Commercial Airliner and turn it to AAR tanker.

Exceptions: In recent times and as in the past, US Gov't has injected $ funds to these firms to keep them running and people employed but did not directly push pressure to hire Republicans or Democrats depending up on who's in the Oval Office.

If Pak Gov't needs to be involved then to extent of what is needed for the PN, not what Commercial Shipping needs. Give the Industry tax incentive, guarantee that local MP and such will not throw hurdles in the build unless palms are greased.

Imagine, Gokal needs to by Ship or have Ships built by Gokal Ship Building, Noon Gov't demands that they will give Gokal lump sum of $Millions for it but they ( Gokal in return must hire 5k noon leaguer. ) Then rinse and repeat same with PPP or any other Party in the Center.
I agree.

Deferring to the private sector also lessens the amount we spend from our budget on maintaining surplus overhead of SOEs. We can use the freed-up resources to buy more equipment, for example.

Surplus capacity is a vital consideration for scale-driven ventures as well, such as nuts and bolts, vehicles, and the like. We can't feasibly maintain this capacity as a SOE unless the SOE functions like a private sector actor or integrates itself with overseas supply chains. In Pakistan's case, this isn't happening.

If we have private sector manufacturers and designers, we also open up the demand for feeder industries at home. E.g., if 'Watan Arms Corporation' bids for a PAF UCAV project, but is told to indigenize a % of the inputs, then Watan will invest in the development. You basically create cascading clusters of R&D and industrial development which, in turn, feeds into education, STEM facilities and labs, and other infrastructure.

It also happens that those critical inputs are not just valuable in Pakistan, but in other places too, so you generate exports, foreign-currency and tax revenue -- the latter returns into the defence budget, and resets the entire cycle.

The pie gets bigger and, as a result, you'll have more investors who'll spend on the R&D and capacity, and more competition. You basically unlock the nation to operate at a higher level.

We're now seeing the Turks test 1,500 hp tank engines and 1-4 kN miniature air-breathing engines for cruise missiles. Where were they 15 years ago? Could anyone have imagined even talking about a Turkish tank engine back then? Now it seems like they're on a roll.
 

Syed1.

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I long for the day when Pakistani Navy imposes a naval blockade of puny Israel and makes them pay for their crimes against our Palestinian brothers. As the only openly declared nuclear Muslim state it our duty to do something about it.


Sadly our rulers have kept our country poor and underdeveloped. We need 15 years of concentrated economic development to get to that stage.
 

ziaulislam

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I long for the day when Pakistani Navy imposes a naval blockade of puny Israel and makes them pay for their crimes against our Palestinian brothers. As the only openly declared nuclear Muslim state it our duty to do something about it.


Sadly our rulers have kept our country poor and underdeveloped. We need 15 years of concentrated economic development to get to that stage.
A Nation that cant tolerate higher cheese price and are corrupt to core..value corruption..khata hey tu lagata be hey, has been bankrupted every 5 yrs....talks about war ...
 

khanasifm

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Normally: DoD / Airforce or Navy asks Boeing to develop a certain type of Fighter for them and gives them funds for it. Boeing ( it's shareholders ) foot the bill for Commercial Liners, US Gov't or DoD doesn't give Boeing $ to go build a 777 / 787 / 737 / 7x7 or upgraded variant based on what the Airliners are looking for. Now DoD / Airforce may ask Boeing to build KC-46 based on a commercial airliner and give $ funds towards it, but not to go build a brand spanking new Commercial Airliner and turn it to AAR tanker.

Exceptions: In recent times and as in the past, US Gov't has injected $ funds to these firms to keep them running and people employed but did not directly push pressure to hire Republicans or Democrats depending up on who's in the Oval Office.

If Pak Gov't needs to be involved then to extent of what is needed for the PN, not what Commercial Shipping needs. Give the Industry tax incentive, guarantee that local MP and such will not throw hurdles in the build unless palms are greased.

Imagine, Gokal needs to buy Ship or have Ships built by Gokal Ship Building, Noon Gov't demands that they will give Gokal lump sum of $Millions for it but they ( Gokal in return must hire 5k noon leaguer. ) Then rinse and repeat same with PPP or any other Party in the




;)
 

CHI RULES

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A Nation that cant tolerate higher cheese price and are corrupt to core..value corruption..khata hey tu lagata be hey, has been bankrupted every 5 yrs....talks about war ...
We as nation are no more corrupt than others however lack planing and infrastructure development, in India their is saying that though decision makers are corrupt yet reserve some part of funds for actual cause meanwhile in Pakistan nearly whole funds are diverted towards personal benefits. The position is not much better even in case of current Govt. I have relatives in USA who get certain licenses/permissions against monetary favors.

On other side progress directly depends on individuals characters also like Benazir during sanctions era managed to get Type 21 frigates from UK when needed most along with Mirages project. Later on French Agosta came though corruption was evident yet are effective platforms. One cannot guarantee 100% transparency yet PN has set it's future plans and are being effectively in progress now any corrupt one can slow them but not possible to end them. On lighter side Pak govt should consult with US Govt to start concept of lobbying and legal gifts may American Pakistanis should be hired as advisors.
 

ziaulislam

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We as nation are no more corrupt than others however lack planing and infrastructure development, in India their is saying that though decision makers are corrupt yet reserve some part of funds for actual cause meanwhile in Pakistan nearly whole funds are diverted towards personal benefits. The position is not much better even in case of current Govt. I have relatives in USA who get certain licenses/permissions against monetary favors.

On other side progress directly depends on individuals characters also like Benazir during sanctions era managed to get Type 21 frigates from UK when needed most along with Mirages project. Later on French Agosta came though corruption was evident yet are effective platforms. One cannot guarantee 100% transparency yet PN has set it's future plans and are being effectively in progress now any corrupt one can slow them but not possible to end them. On lighter side Pak govt should consult with US Govt to start concept of lobbying and legal gifts may American Pakistanis should be hired as advisors.
I disagree

In india beforr modi took over..people will call corruption corruption..we wouldnt have lahore high court or khata hey tu lagata hey shaningans

But why are we comparing india..its as bad as we are..

What about Korea, USA and france?
Corruption is everywhere as there are no angles in world there are humans and greed
What matters is how the nation reacts to it?

In korea the PM is jailed

In france the bhuttos and quaid-i-azam quality leaders like jacques chirac are jailed and then most recently sirkosy are jailed

In USA even smaller conflcit of interest is probed..


In paksitan...judge have given them immunity, army is untouchable and polticans are loved by the people and untouchable roaming free..let me assure you the one off nawaz sharif sentence will be reovoked and was simply a pressure tactic just like her daughter is free and allowed politics


ITS LAUGHABLE AND RIDICULOUS THAT WE COMPARE OURSELVES TO THEM

JUST LOOK AT THE WORK ETHICS IN USA AND PAKISTAN there is aboslutely no comparison..i really mean NO comparison..

Yes i have worked both in pakistan and USA
What happens ...i have seen AC doctors engnrs police public behaves ..we have seen it all

Just pretending nothing is wrong wont change the facts
 

CHI RULES

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I disagree

In india beforr modi took over..people will call corruption corruption..we wouldnt have lahore high court or khata hey tu lagata hey shaningans

But why are we comparing india..its as bad as we are..

What about Korea, USA and france?
Corruption is everywhere as there are no angles in world there are humans and greed
What matters is how the nation reacts to it?

In korea the PM is jailed

In france the bhuttos and quaid-i-azam quality leaders like jacques chirac are jailed and then most recently sirkosy are jailed

In USA even smaller conflcit of interest is probed..


In paksitan...judge have given them immunity, army is untouchable and polticans are loved by the people and untouchable roaming free..let me assure you the one off nawaz sharif sentence will be reovoked and was simply a pressure tactic just like her daughter is free and allowed politics


ITS LAUGHABLE AND RIDICULOUS THAT WE COMPARE OURSELVES TO THEM

JUST LOOK AT THE WORK ETHICS IN USA AND PAKISTAN there is aboslutely no comparison..i really mean NO comparison..

Yes i have worked both in pakistan and USA
What happens ...i have seen AC doctors engnrs police public behaves ..we have seen it all

Just pretending nothing is wrong wont change the facts
Just comment on lobbying and legal gifts system in USA, then how many police man got disgraced publicly for killing blacks, how many CIA people got trialed for Narcotics business, transparency in case of Guantonamo bay, even F16 sales to Pakistan were not transparent.

Let me tell you I do not support corruption but it is reality and if Pakistan can progress and it is controlled to some extent it is enough. We should not portray our society right or wrong on individual basis. The PN is making progress and this is reality in recent past PN has had no effective AD now we may get in a year or two decent AD equipped platforms who can have a fighting chance against superior enemy, meanwhile PN is progressing in cse of self sufficiency in case of ASHM missiles both subsonic for now and supersonic in future. Even some progress is there in case of anti sub gadgets/ sonars.

What Pakistan needs is clear planning and direction in every field if comes we shall and can progress even with corruption.
 

khanasifm

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Apr 16, 2008
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Seems like a z9 helicopter for these ships
All
New ships danish, 054 and Turkish Ada support medium class 10-13 ton heli barring rotor dia or other size requirements most medium clas naval heli can be accommodated as the helipad can take medium clas heli like Russian ka27 or American mh-60

Sea King weight wise are medium class provided rotor dia ans size are an Not issue

Ka27

Main rotor diameter: 2× 15.8 m (51 ft 10 in)
Main rotor area: 392.2 m2 (4,222 sq ft) 3-bladed contra-rotating rotors

Sh-60
Main rotor diameter: 53 ft 8 in (16.36 m)
Main rotor area: 2,262.3 sq ft (210.17 m2)

Sea king

Main rotor diameter: 62 ft (19 m)
Main rotor area: 3,019 sq ft (280.5 m2)


So sea king tonnage wise 10 ton

Eh-101

Main rotor diameter: 18.59 m (61 ft 0 in)
Main rotor area: 271.51 m2 (2,922.5 sq ft) root: RAE 9651 ; tip: RAE 9645/RAE 9634[183]

14 ton so heavy


Chinese z-20

Main rotor diameter: 52 ft 6 in (16 m)

Compare it to 4 ton light heli z9

Main rotor diameter: 11.94 m (39 ft 2 in)
Main rotor area: 111.98 m2 (1,205.3 sq ft) swept area
 
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