• Thursday, October 18, 2018

Karoonjhar Mountains: Commanding Heights

Discussion in 'Pakistan Army' started by FuturePAF, May 13, 2018.

  1. FuturePAF

    FuturePAF FULL MEMBER

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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karoonjhar_Mountains

    With development underway in the Thar desert, and discussions of Forming the Pakistani Marines, and how best to equip and employ them; Studying the border in Sindh shows a range of mountains perfectly suited for a major defensive position.

    The Karoonjhar Mountains reach a height of 305 meters and are 19 kilometers long. These mountains are made of Granite. A large enough area to station a Brigade if not a Division of Artillery and other indirect fire units. carving into the tunnels will allow for the build of a strong point right up against the border.

    Any idea if this has been considered?
     
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  2. Indus Pakistan

    Indus Pakistan PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT

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    [​IMG]
     
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  3. Army research

    Army research FULL MEMBER

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    Great reply
    Kudos
     
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  4. Indus Pakistan

    Indus Pakistan PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT

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  5. Armchair

    Armchair FULL MEMBER

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    Wow interesting find. I don't know much about PA defensive positions in that area but seems like it would be too forward a position to pre-position anything.

    The desert their is very impassable and not suited to maneuver warfare, unlike other deserts. I know a bit about PA positions further to the north in the same desert they basically have defensive positions way back with a canal dug in going north to south. In a war they are not afraid to concede desert land as there is nothing worth defending in these parts, and the desert being impassable will give ample opportunity to ambush IA.
     
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  6. Corona

    Corona FULL MEMBER

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    It's only unpassable till some one passes it.
     
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  7. Signalian

    Signalian SENIOR MEMBER

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    The land ahead (south east) of this mountain Range (Nagar Parkar) leading into India is marshy land.
    Towards south west and north east are lakes. Nagar Parkar is naturally protected by lakes and marshy lands.

    Its hard to launch an offensive from Nagar Parkar as it will either be into marshy lands or an amphibious ops crossing lakes (the tragedy of Pakistan Marines @Ulla ), however defending the area is easier.

    If the offensive is to be launched, the jump off point can be further north-east at the northern edge of the lake.

    A better utilization of this Mountain range could be a forward COD (Central Ordnance Depot). Have you seen PA ordnance depots inside mountains in Baluchistan and Sindh? Store the ammunition and supplies here for an offensive carried by 5-Corps inside India, which might be a further 100-150 km north but still closer to frontlines than depots in Hyderabad and Pano Aqil.
     
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  8. FuturePAF

    FuturePAF FULL MEMBER

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    I see this position like a mountain stronghold, protected by water, right up against their border but a launching platform for gun and rocket based artillery. Positions close to the border will allow for concealed positions to spot, coordinate, and launch Artillery, MBRL barrages, cruise missiles. Commando Heli-borne Operations and Short take off CAS planes and attack helicopters can be launched from here. It is like Mount Suribachi on Iwo Jima. A defensive position; with weapon emplacement deeply embedded into the mountain. 110,000 US marines against 21,000 Japanese and it still took 36 days for the mountain to be taken, and that too when that was a central focus of the war in the pacific. Most of the defenders were killed in the taking of the mountain, but so were nearly 7000 Marines.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Iwo_Jima

    Its true, Indian forces could avoid the area, but missile strikes (with ranges of hundreds of kilometers; The A-300 has a max range of 290 km; putting the entire border from the coast to the sector in front of Nawabshah in range) coming from this position on their armored formations will have to be stopped if the Indians are to push forward. These Mountains are made of Granite, so they maybe able to take strikes upon them and still keep operating. Chinese HQ-9 and LY-80 missiles can also be based here to deny enemy forces the ability to fly through this sector un-opposed. The missiles can be hidden in bunkers and brought out to launch upon enemy fighter/bombers and helicopters. Drones with anti-tank missiles can be launched from here to pick off enemy forces, Stealthy drones can be launched to keep an eye on enemy movements; and long range radars can be placed here to maximize situational awareness deep into enemy territory.

    To make it work, though, it would be a monumental undertaking, requiring thousands of tunnels and tunnel openings to be carved out, and the entire region off limits to civilians. A few big tunnel openings or structures out in the open would be easy targets for Indian attack.



     
    Last edited: May 14, 2018
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  9. Inception-06

    Inception-06 SENIOR MEMBER

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    @Signalian I swear, I have not seen the further posts of @FuturePAF but I thought, that this guy is going into the Japanese WW2 tactic and strategic direction, then I scrolled down and I saw his further posts which are mentioning the Japanese WW2 war history.

    @FuturePAF[/USER your posts are excellent, brilliant keep on, you sound like the Japanese Pacific expedition Corps Commander! Keep on!

    @Signalian Pakistan Marine Corps must transfer the whole Sindh Border area in an Iwojima for India. You are right the Marine Corps is totally underdeveloped.
     
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  10. FuturePAF

    FuturePAF FULL MEMBER

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    Thank You. I have been studying military history for over 20 years, and if I can use that knowledge to "Serve Pakistan" as Qaid-e-Azam instructed us to do, I hope it may reach the ears of those in power who will at least hear it out. I feel I am doing my small part to help Pakistan become stronger, safer and more prosperous.
     
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  11. Armchair

    Armchair FULL MEMBER

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    India doesn't need to invade this position, even if such a strong point, with all that hundreds of millions of dollars worth of equipment is put in here. They simply need to circumvent it and cut off supplies. Its an open desert behind it, an impassable desert, where tanks and vehicles find it very difficult to operate, because of the grain of the sand. India can also bomb this area at will, destroying the millions of dollars of equipment planned for such an Iwojima. PAF would find it very difficult to defend a point almost on the border.

    With so much equipment and men tied into such a position, the Indians will then stroll past it, avoiding it, and head for the thin waistline of Pakistan's artery. With all that equipment stuck in those mountains, these positions would then be weak. And Indians, outnumbering and outgunning Pakistani forces would then cut Pakistan's artery, dividing the country into two.

    Reminds me less about Iwojima and more about the strategy (or lack thereof) of defending East Pakistan - breaking the army into separate groups each fighting its own battle, each making up its own "strong point" only to be divided and conquered. In a handful of days to boot.
     
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  12. Army research

    Army research FULL MEMBER

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    For people saying it's hard to launch offensive manuvers through marsh lands , the Germans more than 70 years ago with 500 UP panzer 1 2 and three's crossed the ardenne and the siene, the Egyptians crossed the Suez in 1973 with water hoses , the Afghan terrorists crossed the Hindu kush and only now it's being fenced,
    Nothing is impassable , modern wars are wars of movement and airforces and missiles
     
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  13. Signalian

    Signalian SENIOR MEMBER

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    please show on map what you intend to plan and execute.

    Have you seen the map? please have a look at the map of the area. you will see there is favorable area for an assault by IA forces north of Nagar parkar, than going through marshes.

    Brother, i can make a map and show the axis of maneuvers for both Pakistan and Indian forces (army and marines) like I have done in the past, but now i want to see what @FuturePAF and @Army research can paint their ideas on the map at the moment.
     
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  14. FuturePAF

    FuturePAF FULL MEMBER

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    An assault across the desert can be fired upon from this position because it is closer being right up against the border. this isn't the only position to build up, but rather one strong point that can be used to defend 500-600 km of the border. think of it like a defended artillery position. In another thread I stated an assault by Indians on the Guddu power station; only 78 km from the border would be the most logical place for them to assault, cutting the nation in two. this is where a lot of planning needs to be done. If the position in the south can be built up; then more mobile force can be allocated to the battle further north. The position in these mountains have to hold the border there in check while other positions are being defended.
     
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  15. Signalian

    Signalian SENIOR MEMBER

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    map :azn: ??
     
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