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Kardeş: The origins of Pakistan-Turkiye brotherhood

MultaniGuy

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They maybe $h!+ but they contribute at least $15 bn to Pakistan's economy annually. So unless Iran or Turkey can offset that amount, Iranophile and Turkophile Arab hating Pakistanis need to put a sock in it...
I agree with you.
 

jamahir

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The Eastern Europeans who suffered under communism will disagree with you here :P
One of those Eastern European countries, Poland, participated in the 2003 Iraq invasion alongside some Western militaries and overthrew Iraq's Socialist system. Yet Poland still has a Communist movement despite the right-wing government acting against it. Why don't these Poles reject Communism 30 years after the dissolution of the USSR ? Do they see some sense in it ? :)

They have bad experience from communism
What are those bad experiences ?

and countries like Greece and maybe the Turks here can tell us as well,stories about how the people of Bulgaria,Albania and Yugoslavia lived in poverty and sometimes misery too back in the Cold War and big poverty right after the fall of Communism.
1. In 2014 a Greek leftist movement fired a RPG at a Mercedes office in Athens. In 2012 a leftist movement also firebombed a Microsoft office in Athens of course after ensuring that no one was in it. So there still Socialists / Communists in Greece.

2. Some years ago a Turkish member on the forum posted a Communist flag being put up somewhere in Turkey by a militant faction. This despite the Muslim Brotherhood aligned Erdogan being in power.

3. About the other three countries you mentioned how would you define their poverty ? Just because most of them didn't have privately-owned cars ? Or something else ?
 

Foinikas

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Yet Poland still has a Communist movement despite the right-wing government acting against it. Why don't these Poles reject Communism 30 years after the dissolution of the USSR ? Do they see some sense in it ?
Almost every former communist country has a communist movement still. There are people who are loyal to the old regimes or think that certain things were better back then.

What are those bad experiences ?
Poverty,extreme State opression,miserable life etc. For example,friends of ours would go to Bulgaria and describe us how much stuff they could buy with just some dollars or the poverty there. Albanians who came to Greece after the fall of communism would talk about the tyranny and starvation of the Hoxha regime. Russian,Ukrainian,Romanian and Moldovan women who immigrated to Greece,Cyprus and other countries. You can check the documentary series "The Lost World of Communism" for example.

1. In 2014 a Greek leftist movement fired a RPG at a Mercedes office in Athens. In 2012 a leftist movement also firebombed a Microsoft office in Athens of course after ensuring that no one was in it. So there still Socialists / Communists in Greece.
Of course there are communists in Greece. As you probably know we've had a civil war and they lost. But there were policies of national reconciliation and especially after 1974,the leftists in Greece were emboldened and became dominant in propaganda through the media and TV. However the ones you mentioned above are not "movements",but terrorist groups.
2. Some years ago a Turkish member on the forum posted a Communist flag being put up somewhere in Turkey by a militant faction. This despite the Muslim Brotherhood aligned Erdogan being in power.
Yes,so?

3. About the other three countries you mentioned how would you define their poverty ? Just because most of them didn't have privately-owned cars ? Or something else ?
Living with little money or money that had no real value in the non-communist world,money that you could buy few things compared to the capitalist countries of the era who had a gigantic selection of products to choose from and of course the limitations in life set by the Party which regulated people's lives. For example,the housing system in the Soviet Union and other countries of Eastern Europe,though it sounds great as you had a roof to live under,had people live in small apartments and most of the time without the ability to choose the apartment yourself or be able to change apartment easily. There was a lot of bureaucracy involved (well now too,but in communist countries,it took way longer to get a car or a new apartment etc.)

Of course it depends on the country. There were socialist countries where life was much better than in other's. For example East Germany or maybe Yugoslavia.

Screenshot_2019-04-04 Eastern Bloc - Wikipedia.png
Screenshot_2021-05-22 Eastern Bloc - Wikipedia.png
 

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