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Karachi, Sindh - Pakistan's achilles heal?

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newb3e

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Zerdaris involvement in dha is very well known. He also threatened local Sindhi and Baloch landlords to keep quite.
Karachi wala were not letting it happen, so operation was launched and whole community was declared ghaddar.
But anayways. Just leave it. Try to save your self.
the karachi wallas you talking about ( i am assuming altaph hussain party or mqm) were also mafad parast they partnered with ghq so they could control central khi while FWO and Dha operated freely in dha malir district! cake hai bhai khi in mafat paratun ka sab nay apna share lia howa hai!!!

people need to unite and rise against this corruption lakin the day people rise against zardari gang koi generals sabh tank peh beth keh bilawal house keh bahir chowkidari dayna shoro kar dain gey label hoga "protectors of democracy" lols
Zerdaris involvement in dha is very well known. He also threatened local Sindhi and Baloch landlords to keep quite.
Karachi wala were not letting it happen, so operation was launched and whole community was declared ghaddar.
But anayways. Just leave it. Try to save your self.
khi operation coincidentally started after launch of Bhria town and Dha city...sohrab goth and gaddap was made peaceful so that people traveled to Dha city without any fear!! khi is in dire need of road upgrades but malir expressway is being built so the dha city and bahria town become accessible! Kamal hai!!!

kon hai ya log genius hain!
 

fitpOsitive

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the karachi wallas you talking about ( i am assuming altaph hussain party or mqm) were also mafad parast they partnered with ghq so they could control central khi while FWO and Dha operated freely in dha malir district! cake hai bhai khi in mafat paratun ka sab nay apna share lia howa hai!!!

people need to unite and rise against this corruption lakin the day people rise against zardari gang koi generals sabh tank peh beth keh bilawal house keh bahir chowkidari dayna shoro kar dain gey label hoga "protectors of democracy" lols

khi operation coincidentally started after launch of Bhria town and Dha city...sohrab goth and gaddap was made peaceful so that people traveled to Dha city without any fear!! khi is in dire need of road upgrades but malir expressway is being built so the dha city and bahria town become accessible! Kamal hai!!!

kon hai ya log genius hain!
That sadly the real story. But Karachi urdu speakers are ghaddar, they are not assimilating.
Magar ab insaf dushman ki talwar karygi.... Or mery rab ki lathi hi karygi....
 

newb3e

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That sadly the real story. But Karachi urdu speakers are ghaddar, they are not assimilating.
Magar ab insaf dushman ki talwar karygi.... Or mery rab ki lathi hi karygi....
unfortunately halat yehi hogaye hain!

Zulm ko Allah ab dushman ki talwar say saaf karay ga!

Sad!

Allah karay hum aur hamaray haqim apna qibla durust kar lain!
 

Norwegian

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To provide further evidence to your statements , please read this snippet.

View attachment 716359
Exactly. Urdu speaking migrants were more educated and skilled than Sindhi slaves who used to live under their fuedal lords. Then instead of competing their new migrants, their party PPP changed laws so that they could get govt jobs without merit on Sindhi quotas. This is how all institutions and departments of Pakistan were destroyed by that Khota Biryani leader Bhutto
 

hussain0216

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Let me tel you what you clowns problem is

Why you idiots are causing so much fassad

Because rather then move forward, rather then seek solutions

The ethnocentric bullshit forces you to seek enemies for your pathetic state

Fassad by Baluchi, fassad by pashtun, fassad by mohajir or sindhi or Punjabi just brings relentless stupidity, backwardness


We need to put Pakistan first, and anyone who doesn't should be stepped upon

Merit and loyalty to Pakistan should guide us anyone wants to act stupid should be treated stupid


The reason for your mindless fassad, your failure to understand 👇

a3b6c51da67d66077b4f87f015cd78a1.jpg
b03cdd3f440259011bd38cb02b4a6b50.jpg
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Let me tel you what you clowns problem is

Why you idiots are causing so much fassad

Because rather then move forward, rather then seek solutions

The ethnocentric bullshit forces you to seek enemies for your pathetic state

Fassad by Baluchi, fassad by pashtun, fassad by mohajir or sindhi or Punjabi just brings relentless stupidity, backwardness


We need to put Pakistan first, and anyone who doesn't should be stepped upon

Merit and loyalty to Pakistan should guide us anyone wants to act stupid should be treated stupid


The reason for your mindless fassad, your failure to understand 👇

View attachment 716431 View attachment 716432 View attachment 716433
i agree with everything you said and there needs to be better islamic education in Pakistan. but the guys in the thread werent saying one ethnicity is superior over others.
 

hussain0216

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i agree with everything you said and there needs to be better islamic education in Pakistan. but the guys in the thread werent saying one ethnicity is superior over others.

They are ethnocentric

No different to PTM
No different to Baluchi nationalists

They prefer fassad to moving the country forward


Pakistans problem for decades has been provincial parties who simply wanted fiefdoms in their own areas


That's what amendment 18 is about
So PPP can have a fiefdom in Sindh
So baluch sardars can have fiefdoms in Balochistan
So ANP and now PTM can have a fiefdom in KP
Whilst PNLN has its core in Punjab it was always a slightly more national party



They want power at the cost of the country

PTI needs to be a national party for loyal PAKISTANI public across Pakistan

They need to emphasize the importance of PAKISTAN over these ethnocentric idiots who have created decades of fassad and donkey behaviour




It was hindutva extremism in India which slapped the mohajir in the face and that fat pig Altar


It's Afghanistan being a shithole that slapped the Afghani wannabes in the face




PAKISTAN needs to be strong, relentless and merciless against any threat
 
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As for this pseudo-intellectual @Indus Pakistan ... he is a divisive force who doesn't seem to have a good understanding of Pakistanis nor a good knowledge about Pakistan's history. It is a pity that some members here think that mere writing long essays in good English or giving grand pictures of an 'Indus Pakistan' to form a civilization makes someone an intellectual. The guy is trying hard to project himself as a 'visionary' and his sole appeal seems to be to tap into Pakistanis aversions to anything Indian
I believe you live in USA and will be familiar with the phrase "play the ball and not the man". I find it amusing how you did not rebut one single point raised in my opening post. Although I did not have time to referance but I assure you the main edges of what was said are from primary sources. You did not even counter one point raised but instead chose make comments about me. I could also as easily slice and dice you.

Frankly even I was surprised at some of the facts obtaining to the 1947-1958 period. Most Mohajirs who today scream [you see this on PDF everyday] that they sacrificed so much actually migrated to Pakistan many years after it's establishment. In other words they migrated for economic reasons as families ans friends who had already arrived spread the word back to their relatives in India. This process continued until nearl;y decade later in 1955 when the government made some effort to stop this practice. Today all their descendants walk around with air of exceptionalism and entitlememnt. When they have been the biggest benefactors of the state. Why not go and find the living standards of Thar Parker residents?

Then there is the barely concealed air of superiorty wit 'meritocracy' being touted. If indeed these people are superior why are their co-brothers in India living in abject poverty with some of the lowest HDI in that country. In fact Muslims in India are byeword for poverty and backwardness. So why is it that the main sample in India is at bottom of Indian society in the same category as Dalits but those who migrated to Pakistan are super human beings? Is the air in Sindh that is turning them in "meritocrats"?

The other interesting conclusion I made was that common perception is that Pakistan saw it's first dictatorship in 1958 with General Ayub Khan. This is not quite the truth. Yes, Gen. Ayub Khan was the first military dictator but not the first dictator.

If you look at 1948 after the demise of Jinnah and the coup by Gen. Ayub Khan in 1958 nearly a full decade who ruled Pakistan? The country was ruled by a political dicatorship. The Muslim League rulers never held a election in the country they ruled? Where did they draw the mandate? India in contrast established a constitution by 1949 and had elections by 1951. In fact five years later India again had electons. So exactly on what mandate were the leadership running the country. What in fact existed was a political clique that had all the contours of a dictatorship with no democractic legitimacy whatso ever. During this autocratic rule by Muslim League the country was ran by unelected adiministrative fiat and was laying the culture of future dictatorships. Compare Pakistan with India which by 1957 had it's second national election. One wonders why these so called politicians were so averse to the ballot box.


India elections.png


When Gen. Ayub Khan established his military dictatorship in 1958 Pakistan already was a dictatorship. He merely exchanged it for military dictatorship. The mob that had been ruling the country since 1948 had not even managed to give the people a constitution.

@Joe Shearer
 
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Areesh

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With the passage of time, I am becoming more and more convinced that you are an undercover operative and you are working on disintegration of Pakistan. I mean such a garbage with pie charts? Wow.
And you received a positive rating by webmaster? So I am thinking now, who is really the owner of this forum and what are purposes of this forum. Anyway, Punjab will be alone to take all Indias pressure, in case of war, as all other "traitors" will either be dead or away from Pakistan. Muhajir is traitor, Baloch is traitor, Pashtoon is traitor, Sindhi is traitor. Then who is patriotic?
Bohat seedha admi hai bhai tu

For racists like OP only mohajirs are traitors

Rest even BLA terrorists are innocent oppressed locals

Tu apni masoomiyat main khud ko Pashtun Baloch k sath include kar raha hai :lol:
 

khansaheeb

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This thread will take a look at what is probably the greatest threat to the Pakistan federation over the next few decades and what can be done to reduce the risks involved. I begin with a quick summary of Sindh which is a province in south east of Pakistan with Karachi as it's capital.


View attachment 716335



  • Sindh was the crucible of the ancient Indus Valley Civilization centred around Mohenjo Daro
  • Sindh was the first region to get Islamic rule in South Asia
  • Sindh was a emirate ruled by Talpurs prior to the conquest and annexation into British India in 1843.
  • Sindh after British conquest was lumped with their Bombay Presidency.
  • Sindh got it's own identity back in 1937 with Karachi as the capital of the province.
  • Sindh assembly was the first British Indian legislature to pass the resolution in favour of Pakistan
  • Sindh was the primary outlet to global sealanes for all of Pakistan on account of having coast on Arabian Sea.

All this tells us how important Sindh was in the making of Pakistan [note it was Sindh Provincial Assembly in 1940 in Karachi which became first provincial legislature for creation of Pakistan] but also it's port on the mouth of the Indus River on the Arabian Sea was the only port for all of Pakistan going north as far as Peshawar, Gilgit, Islamabad, Lahore.

Karachi by 1940 was premier city of what would become Pakistan and had the second highest population after Lahore.
Ever since 1880s and the British rail construction that linked Karachi port with the north the city had grown in size and wealth. Grand buildings which still stand today allude to this era. It became proably the most cleanest city in British Raj.
By 1940 it had nearly 500,000 population. Various trading communities got attracted to it. "who were refugees from Hindu mobs or economic migrants and attracted to the opportunities Karachi offered.

View attachment 716237

It is important to note that migration from India continued well past 1947. Indeed more migrants came from India post 1948 to Karachi then in 1947. In fact right till 1956 nine years after Pakistan came into being more migrants were moving to Karachi from India then internal migrants from rest of Pakistan. In the tables below please note "in migrants" means migration from within territory of Pakistan and "immigrants" means migrants from India. The total number of migrants from India in 1947 and partition was 502,000. From 1948 to 1955 [seven years after partition] over 570,000 migrants came from India. This means majority of the community today that is called Mohajir [migrants from India] moved to Pakistan after the country was established in 1947 and many came half a dozen years later. Table below annotated with period 1948-1955 in green.


View attachment 716336


Only by 1956 nearly decade after independance do we see reduction in immigrants from India that drops below the in-migration [from native Pakistan] at 15,000 compared to 22,000. By this stage the city had gone through profound change in it's demographic make. Indian migrants in less than 3 years had become dominant in numbers. The capital of Sindh had in effect become estranged from it's own province. The scene had been set for future ethnic conflict.

It is also relevant that the mass immigrant wave from India had no intention to assimiliate within the larger Sindhi umbrella they had sought refuge under. They instead carved a 'colony' similiar to how the British used to do with their cantonments. Indeed Sindhi's were expected to follow the culture of the migrants [mohajirs] with the convenient tool of "Islam". Which all too often was a culture they defined.

This demographic 'inversion" that took place in Karachi within few years after 1947 which turned Sindh's capital into "Little India" can best be seen in the graph below which charts the general population increase of other region/cities of Pakistan. The line marked green shows quite clearly the increase is conspiciously steep in Karachi that reflects the tidal wave of migration from India. Lahore had traditionally been the largest city in the Pakistan territory. However by 1951 Karachi had overtaken Lahore to become the largest city in Pakistan a position it has retained to this day with it's population in the upper side of 15 million.


View attachment 716322


Until 1947 Lahore was the largest city in Pakistan territory. After 1947 Lahore drops to No.2. Table below shows this change with bold black line. Before 1947 Lahore was nearly double the population of Karachi.


View attachment 716323


Pie chart below shows that more than four-fifths of its population are migrants (also includes children of migrants born in Karachi: see glossary) from various parts of India and Pakistan. A major proportion of migrants came from India after the partition of Indo-Pakistan sub-continent on August 14, 1947. Karachi is still growing rapidly and in-migration (migration from other parts of Pakistan) is an important component of its growth. The influx of migrants, as experienced by great cities or metropolises elsewhere, is creating diverse demographic, economic and social problems.


View attachment 716325


Furthermore the fertility rate for migrants from India in 1959 was higher then natives or in country migrants. This would assure that population domination captured by the Indian migrants [mohajir] in 1947 would continue for many succeeding decades.


View attachment 716326


All this demographic inversion happened under the Muslim League rule whose senior leadership was composed of migrants from India. Karachi was made capital of Pakistan until 1959. During this period the Indian migrant community also carved a extraordinary share in jobs and economic sphers of the new country. This 'capture' only came to end in 1958 when the Pakistan Army led by Gen. Ayub took. Most of the army was composed of Punjabi/Pakhtun ethnic groups from the north. In 1959 President Ayub moved to the new capital Islamabad adjacent to the home of the military - Rawalpindi.

However the demograhic domination by the Indian migrant community continued in Karachi. By 1971 Pakistan was being ruled by Zulfiqar Bhutto a ethnic Sindhi. He attempted to pull back some of the capture that the migrants had grabbed after 1947. In July 1972 the Sindh Assembly passed the language bill declaring Sindhi as the provincial language. This was the same assembly that just over 30 years before in 1940 passed the Sindh Resolution demanding creation of Pakistan becoming the first in doing so.

Yet this event led to ethnic riots in 1972 between native Sindhi's and migrant Indians who were often known as Mohajirs [literally migrants]. This clearly showed that Islam was not sufficient medium as both parties were Muslims. One had moved from India because they could not live in Hindu majority India. Now in Pakistan they could not get along with the natives because they were differant ethnic group - Sindhi. In India they were the same ethnicity but not the same religion. Now in Karachi they were same religion but differant ethnicity.

By 1980s the Mohajir capture was coming under pressure. At heart of the issue was the sense of entitlement or exceptionalism that Mohajirs had endowed on themselves. As their extraordinary capture of the socio-economic and politcal life of Pakistan and particularly Karachi came under pressure they formed a ethnic based party to fight for Karachi which they now considered as their fief. despite the fact that Karachi was capital of a province named after it';s main ethnic group - the Sindhi.

The Mohajir Quomi Movement [Migrant nation Movement] has represented the Indian migrant community to the present. They changed the name slightly to deflect from charges of ethnic-nationalism but that does little to fool anybody. MQM has fought against the Sindhi dominated Pakistan Peoples Party [PPP] which has tried to bring in quotas to give a chance for the natives to get their share. PPP has been led by the Bhutto family who are seen by the native Sindhi's as their gaurdians. The MQM was led by Altaf Hussain from 1980s to 2016. During the 1980s and 1990s ethnic warfare flared between the two communities. This gave Karachi the reputation as the most dangerous city in Pakistan and even became notorious abroad.

At times Karachi resembled a civil war with army moving in to establish some semblance of order. Altaf Hussain ran away to London and got asylum after he was charged with serious offences. He ran Karachi from London and was called the "mafia don" of Karachi. Nothing moved in the city without his say so.

The political divide is seen in elections. Most Mohajirs vote for MQM. Most Sindhi's vote for PPP. Both communties have in effect barricaded behind their respective ethnic based parties. Elections in Sindh just reveal districts according to their ethnic profle. In fact election maps might as well be ethnic maps, such is the congruence between voting patterns and ethnic groups.

Over the last decade Karachi resembled Beirut with it's zones and suspicion that India was financing MQM and even sending in operatives who would have contacts within the vast Indian Mohajir population of Karachi. Altaf Hussain the leader of MQM was even videoed giving talk in India that Pakistan was a mistake.


Below is election map of 2018 Sindh provincial elections. The black is Sindhi dominated PPP. Karachi is like a island with MQM and other parties holding sway. This explains the fundamental demographic challange Sindh faces today that will not go away.



View attachment 716327


MQM and the Mohajor community are pushing for Karachi to be truncated from Sindh. The majority native Sindhi people of Sindh absolutely will not accept Karachi being truncated from their province. From their perspective that would be like London, Istanbul or Dubai being truncated because of migrants who moved there now have majority. In addition the Mohajir demographic domination that they gained post 1947 during the mass migration from India is now under threat. They still are the single margest group but their share is now about 45% and dropping.

They regard this as a aberration but don't see that their mass migration from 1947-1955 was also a aberration that caused the native Sindhi's to become a minority.

"MQM-P convener Khalid Maqbool Siddiqui, while addressing a gathering in Karachi on August 21, made it clear that the domination of “Sindhi-speaking, rural PPP” will not be acceptable anymore and the only way to prevent the “total destruction of Karachi” is by declaring it as a separate province."

"The threat of ethnic violence and bloodbath in Sindh may not be a myth but will transform into a reality because Sindhi nationalists whether in the PPP, the Sindh-based Grand Democratic Alliance (GDA) or the Awami Tehreek have made it clear that the division of Sindh will be over their dead bodies; that they will not tolerate and allow the separation of Karachi from Sindh."

"placing Karachi under federal control, imposition of governor rule and the MQM-P’s demand that Karachi be carved out of Sindh and declared a separate province can trigger a serious crisis and outbreak of violence."

This issue therefor will not go away. In fact it began to incubate from 1947 and slowly got more serious over the decades. It proved if proof was needed that being Muslim was not sufficient to bind divergent communities. The tragic result is that both demographics have developed a ribal instinct where they see the other as threat and are pulled toward their ethnic based parties even if they are corrupt, engage in criminal activity. They rationalize their unqualified support under seige mentality of thinking as "they are ours" good or bad.

All this might not matter to rest of Pakistan but the problem is the geography of the 220 million country and it's entire trannsport infrastructure is laid so that the entire trade of the country flows along the north-south axis. Entire countries trade discharges at the only port of Karachi and entire countries imports arive at Karachi port. Thus geography has given the port a stranglehold on Pakistan. Thus whatever happens in Karachi impacts the port which of course resonates 1,000 miles north. The country is hostage to this geography and that gives both sides in the conflict - MQM and PPP a outsized role in the politics if the country.


View attachment 716328


So given the intractable problem of the MQM demands and PPP's position what can be done to resolve this issue before it explodes one day like Bangla 1971. History teaches us to take such problems seriously before the spark causes a explosive result. As mentioned before this problem will not go away.

So what are the solutions?
What nonsense is this? Were the local Sindhis not Indian before the partition ? When the so called Indian Immigrants" came to Sindh the Sindhis were oppressed people by the Hindhus who used to force the Sindhis to take their slippers off and wear them around their necks, - "However after 1947 it's population exploded with migration from India ".

This is a degenerate post subtly designed to fuel intra-community strife and division and should be deleted as it is full of conflagatory and erroneous statements. @waz
 

Enigma SIG

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Regardless of the ethno-fascism at full display in the thread, the western route touted here can only be meant for Pakistan to wean off revenues taken in by Sindh for one objective: to break the PPP.

Karachi needs to take to the streets to demand to be made a federal territory. Unless you lot galvanize behind a single slogan, not even the deep state of the US can free Karachi from the clutches of sex change Bhutto.

Then only we can discuss undoing 18th Amendment and other issues.

Also blaming PTI for the current mess will take you nowhere. Remember, they're in opposition not the government.
 

fitpOsitive

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Bohat seedha admi hai bhai tu

For racists like OP only mohajirs are traitors

Rest even BLA terrorists are innocent oppressed locals

Tu apni masoomiyat main khud ko Pashtun Baloch k sath include kar raha hai :lol:
Because I have seen really oppressed people, even Punjabis.
Gharib or kamzor Urdu speaker nai hota, Sindhi, Punjabi, Pashtoon, ya Baloch nai hota. Bs, mazloom hota hai. Aaj muhajir nishany pe is liay hai keh muhajir kamzor hai. But I have seen such Sindhi women on the Autaqs of Sindhi wadyras who were daughters of poor farmers. These women were mothers of 5, sometimes 10 children. All children from different fathers. The only sin these women had was their fathers were unable to payback the loan of local wadyras. Specially wadyras of Dadu and Sukkur are real PhDs in this field.

Aik Hawa chal pari hai haramipan ki Pakistan main. So ya tu ham logon k concepts thek kerdaingy keh logon ka asal dushman kon hai. Main Pakistan se bhag chuka hon, per jab tak Jan main Jan hai Pakistan k liay kam kerta rahonga(BTW, I am mentoring some Pakistani groups who are working in the field of electronics) . Shayad keh kisi Generation main log bat samajh jain.
Nai samjhay tu kam az kam main apni qabar main sukoon se lait jaonga.
 

pakpride00090

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Because I have seen really oppressed people, even Punjabis.
Gharib or kamzor Urdu speaker nai hota, Sindhi, Punjabi, Pashtoon, ya Baloch nai hota. Bs, mazloom hota hai. Aaj muhajir nishany pe is liay hai keh muhajir kamzor hai. But I have seen such Sindhi women on the Autaqs of Sindhi wadyras who were daughters of poor farmers. These women were mothers of 5, sometimes 10 children. All children from different fathers. The only sin these women had was their fathers were unable to payback the loan of local wadyras. Specially wadyras of Dadu and Sukkur are real PhDs in this field.

Aik Hawa chal pari hai haramipan ki Pakistan main. So ya tu ham logon k concepts thek kerdaingy keh logon ka asal dushman kon hai. Main Pakistan se bhag chuka hon, per jab tak Jan main Jan hai Pakistan k liay kam kerta rahonga(BTW, I am mentoring some Pakistani groups who are working in the field of electronics) . Shayad keh kisi Generation main log bat samajh jain.
Nai samjhay tu kam az kam main apni qabar main sukoon se lait jaonga.
Bhaijan.

Sindhi bilkul bhi mind nahi karte jab wadere unko abuse karte hain ... Koi farak nahi parta unhein kiyonke woh wadera sindhi speaking hai.

Agar ik muhajir ya punjabi se choti se galti hojae tou bohat ziada shor karte hain our jab inke khod ke sindhi wadere galat kam karte hain tou woh unko defend karte hain.

Shahrukh Jatoi ka case hi dekhlo.....Apne bande ke sath khare hain sindhi jo ke ik rapist and harraser hai.
 
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