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Jinnah class guided missile frigate has entered detailed design phase, after completion of conceptual design phase

Tank131

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What we lack is ships which have VLS to carry and fire long range land attack cruise missiles. Like 1500 KM and more range cruise missiles
Well, first you need a longer ranged CM for that to be of any relevance. I haven't seen or heard anything to tell me that Pakistan is working to increase the range of Babur beyond 700km. 1000km seems far off, let alone 1500km.
Yes that's why we need destroyers here to do this kind of operations
Heavy frigate in the 5000t range could do this. Dont necessary need 7000t destroyer but with bulk of Land Attack likely to be done by subs, for the time being it is more important the focus of surface vessels be on air defense and anti-surface roles in an effort to protect those subs and draw attention away from them. The good news is that the Harbah is fully land attack capable and the same range as babur. As Babur's range increases, i would imagine that Harbah's range would also increase accordingly.
 

Super Falcon

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Well, first you need a longer ranged CM for that to be of any relevance. I haven't seen or heard anything to tell me that Pakistan is working to increase the range of Babur beyond 700km. 1000km seems far off, let alone 1500km.

Heavy frigate in the 5000t range could do this. Dont necessary need 7000t destroyer but with bulk of Land Attack likely to be done by subs, for the time being it is more important the focus of surface vessels be on air defense and anti-surface roles in an effort to protect those subs and draw attention away from them. The good news is that the Harbah is fully land attack capable and the same range as babur. As Babur's range increases, i would imagine that Harbah's range would also increase accordingly.
Problem here we need to build our own national surface to air and air to air missiles for many applications we can save billions

We need dedicated air defence frigates
 

Super Falcon

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it also means we need tens of billions to save billions.
Seems like you don't have any sense if you plan a long term you spent few millions to develop these missiles which our scientists already have and now everything on how to build missiles are easy to get

How we build thunder in few millions now we can sell them and cover atleast principal amount of investment of 90s
 

arslank03

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Seems like you don't have any sense if you plan a long term you spent few millions to develop these missiles which our scientists already have and now everything on how to build missiles are easy to get

How we build thunder in few millions now we can sell them and cover atleast principal amount of investment of 90s


you're dreaming if you think anyone will buy Pakistani SAMs, go on, who? Turks have SAMs for sale, the UAE makes some great missiles, GCC and Africa is covered unless somehow we can come up with an exceptionally good product which is unrealistic really for us.

On top of that, as a poor country, long term investment is not something very significant as lifecycle costs usually are less important to poorer nations than the upfront sunk costs. We cannot afford them. If we saw it as being economical we would have undertaken the AAM project after the feasibility studies in the 90s.
 

Super Falcon

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you're dreaming if you think anyone will buy Pakistani SAMs, go on, who? Turks have SAMs for sale, the UAE makes some great missiles, GCC and Africa is covered unless somehow we can come up with an exceptionally good product which is unrealistic really for us.

On top of that, as a poor country, long term investment is not something very significant as lifecycle costs usually are less important to poorer nations than the upfront sunk costs. We cannot afford them. If we saw it as being economical we would have undertaken the AAM project after the feasibility studies in the 90s.
You are very short sighted person if these UAE and Turks can produce we can too don't put too much pressure on your self for funding for new missile prog pak did not had funds for thunder j 10 subs but we had them
 

Tank131

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Well i dont agree that Pakistan should go it alone. I think @Bilal Khan (Quwa) had suggested exactly what I have been thinking for some time, something I suspect that Turkey has been hoping for Pakistan to realize as well... That the future for medium weight/financed countries is collaborative. Look at the most advanced weapons and electronics houses in the world. Many (esp the European ones) are multinationals. MBDA and Leonard are prime examples. PAKISTAN needs to reach out and fully invest/partner with Turkey in the development of tactical and strategic weapons and platforms. Form multi-national companies where both govts have significant stake. I would frankly, role Malaysia and Indonesia into those companies too. This will emable a broad range of views, capabilities, and investments that also helps produce products that will benefit from economies of scale given the size of these nations (Indonesoa - 275M, Pakistan - 222M, Turkey - 84M, and Malaysia 32M) and their armed forces.
 

Bilal9

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After all the technology transfers and decades of financial support from the exchequer, the neutral run enterprises can't locally design and produce a lousy frigate?

I am guessing there are many other reasons (technical or otherwise) why they are not locally designed and produced in Pakistan.

Capability is not the only equation.

Your guess is as good as mine.
 

arslank03

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You are very short sighted person if these UAE and Turks can produce we can too don't put too much pressure on your self for funding for new missile prog pak did not had funds for thunder j 10 subs but we had them

if you think we can do anything anywhere near what UAE and Turks can you're in for a shock,
 

Hakikat ve Hikmet

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This will emable a broad range of views, capabilities, and investments that also helps produce products that will benefit from economies of scale given the size of these nations (Indonesoa - 275M, Pakistan - 222M, Turkey - 84M, and Malaysia 32M) and their armed forces.
+ Azerbaijan + Qatar (the real dark horse)....

Thanks to Biden, the KSA & UAE may jump into the wagon too...

The inferno in Ukraine has shown the conventional preparedness matters...
 

SaadH

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I am guessing there are many other reasons (technical or otherwise) why they are not locally designed and produced in Pakistan.

Capability is not the only equation.

Your guess is as good as mine.
Reason is rotten system that penalizes hard work and rewards mediocrity with nepotism
 

dilpakistani

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After all the technology transfers and decades of financial support from the exchequer, the neutral run enterprises can't locally design and produce a lousy frigate?
local capbility means lack of commission and corruption... we haven't been able to induct 500 Ak Tanks built in HIT due to lack of funds but we had enough funds to import vt-4 from china
 

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