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JF-17B Updates, News & Discussion

araz

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Jun 14, 2006
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BasicLly b model will be upgraded with aesa radar and equivalent of block 3 eventually

please note the new aesa radar will be built /assembled at pac avionics factory eventually
Yes this is understood but if it is an air cooled Radar will it be installed cross field on the older planes or just on the new builds. Secondly what will the PAF assemble,ie air cooled or liquid cooled Radars? Or are developments a foot which will make this debate redundent.
A
 

The Raven

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Yes this is understood but if it is an air cooled Radar will it be installed cross field on the older planes or just on the new builds. Secondly what will the PAF assemble,ie air cooled or liquid cooled Radars? Or are developments a foot which will make this debate redundent.
A
Both of the AESA candidates have been tested on a Block I prototype in China, and it has always been planned by the PAF to eventually upgrade/rebuild previous blocks to Block III standard. If what Alan Warnes says is true, then it shouldn't be too difficult to standardise the entire fleet on the air-cooled KLJ-7A.
 

CriticalThought

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An important point being overlooked in Alan Warnes' revelation is the fact that the manufacturer of the air-cooled AESA radar is NRIET. So far we have had information about the existence of LKF601E made by AVIC. It looks like NRIET has caught up. I would like to remind people of the following post. Not all my conjectures have been correct in this instance:


Another interesting aspect is what makes an air cooled AESA work? The answer is SiC substrate layer. The material SiC is very effective as a heat sink, and allows a GaN AESA radar to operate without the need for liquid cooling. I would like to remind people of the following post on 14th August:


This was a thread by itself, but unfortunately merged into a larger thread. It should be noted that the combination of SiC substrate with GaN T/Rs is even better than plain GaN which I mentioned in the post above. Alhamdulillah, it can be said that JF-17 Block 3s will be true beasts. Insha Allah.

It also shows the advancements that China has made in semi-conductor manufacturing. Although, in theory, SiC as a substrate is quite desirable, in practice it creates boundary layer defects where it joins with GaN, resulting in lower performance. It looks like China has mastered this complex challenge. And if the tidbits of information being thrown around are correct, Pakistan will be manufacturing this extremely complex technology within the country - Insha Allah. Although it is unknown whether we will be involved in actual semi-conductor fabrication, or T/Rs would be imported from China. In any case, Alhamdulillah Pakistan is progressing forward in areas of absolutely cutting edge technologies.
Yes this is understood but if it is an air cooled Radar will it be installed cross field on the older planes or just on the new builds. Secondly what will the PAF assemble,ie air cooled or liquid cooled Radars? Or are developments a foot which will make this debate redundent.
A
 

araz

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Jun 14, 2006
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Both of the AESA candidates have been tested on a Block I prototype in China, and it has always been planned by the PAF to eventually upgrade/rebuild previous blocks to Block III standard. If what Alan Warnes says is true, then it shouldn't be too difficult to standardise the entire fleet on the air-cooled KLJ-7A.
As we have discussed before there are variable accounts of what is happening with the Block 2s. Previously if I remember correctly the problem with Air cooled radars is deterioration in function due to lack of cooling. The way out was to look at a GAN based AESA where heat output is reduced and therefore there is no/little need for auxiliary cooling. As an off shoot I surmised firstly that :
A. Block 3 has had a lot of changes made to accommodate the liquid cooling system. On that basis the Bl;ock 2 will not be able to convert to block 3s. However the air cooled AESA will provide them with a compatible capability
B. If on the other hand we have an air cooled GAN based radar, then we will be able to institute fleet wide change once we start in house manufacturing/assembly.
I think the Alan Warnes article possibly points to a GAN based radar having been chosen for block 3. This is a very intriguing thought. So outr on going difference of opinion is merely based on semantics.
An important point being overlooked in Alan Warnes' revelation is the fact that the manufacturer of the air-cooled AESA radar is NRIET. So far we have had information about the existence of LKF601E made by AVIC. It looks like NRIET has caught up. I would like to remind people of the following post. Not all my conjectures have been correct in this instance:


Another interesting aspect is what makes an air cooled AESA work? The answer is SiC substrate layer. The material SiC is very effective as a heat sink, and allows a GaN AESA radar to operate without the need for liquid cooling. I would like to remind people of the following post on 14th August:


This was a thread by itself, but unfortunately merged into a larger thread. It should be noted that the combination of SiC substrate with GaN T/Rs is even better than plain GaN which I mentioned in the post above. Alhamdulillah, it can be said that JF-17 Block 3s will be true beasts. Insha Allah.

It also shows the advancements that China has made in semi-conductor manufacturing. Although, in theory, SiC as a substrate is quite desirable, in practice it creates boundary layer defects where it joins with GaN, resulting in lower performance. It looks like China has mastered this complex challenge. And if the tidbits of information being thrown around are correct, Pakistan will be manufacturing this extremely complex technology within the country - Insha Allah. Although it is unknown whether we will be involved in actual semi-conductor fabrication, or T/Rs would be imported from China. In any case, Alhamdulillah Pakistan is progressing forward in areas of absolutely cutting edge technologies.


Exactly my thoughts . I was merely pointing out that something more is ongoing in the Radar fields and you have explained it splendidly.
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Tempest II

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Mar 15, 2007
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With air temperature in the negative double digits at 5,000m, I am thinking "how difficult could it be to air cool"?

altdata.gif
 

GEMINI

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With air temperature in the negative double digits at 5,000m, I am thinking "how difficult could it be to air cool"?

View attachment 717435
Cooling shall depend upon speed((mass flow of air), difference in temperature. With cold air temperature as above, we might be seeing efforts to reduce/ control air flow or have design patterns to distribute it over the surface to prevent hot and cold spots in the entire surface. Really a master piece in fluid flow design.
 

Windjammer

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ok The Black Panthers is NOT an operational conversation & training squadron, why the dual seater then? growler, prowler or wild weasel roles???
The OCU will be the dedicated unit however it's common for any squadron to have a couple of trainer versions on strength.
 

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