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JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

Marker

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rd 93 is almost a similar engine upgrade from around 83 to 94..it is available and is undergoing testing but for whom?
there is no other single engine jet program?

so its reasonable to assume its for jf17, question is, is it for block 3 or block 4?

if for block 3, why didn't we see major structural changes for jf17block 3(apart from one hard point), it is possible that there are some changes that we dont see in photos.

or is rd93ma meant for block 4?

will block 4 then be structurally a bit different or will PAF simply take the additional thrust without enlarging the jet and do internal changes like adding more fuel and strengthening wings?
Up till now, there is no detail on physical and performance specifications of RD-93MA available from the manufacturers.

Therefore, there is no definite answer to your query about visible major structural change in JF-17 Block 3.

Aircraft structure change depends on the extent of physical parameter changes such as engine's length, external diameter and weight.

If there is very minor change in length or external diameter of upgraded engine, the aircraft structural adjustment will be internal, hence will not be obvious from outside.

Change in engine weight will effect aircraft center of gravity, therefore there will be changes in location of various equipment, fuel cells and sensors to bring back cg to its original position. Again not visible from outside.
 

razgriz19

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Just because they can pump out 12 aircraft a year doesn't mean it takes 1 month to build one aircraft. They build 4-6 simultaneously and it takes them 4-6 months for each aircraft.

These numbers are just an example of course

Thanks. I am told the production will start in december and the first copy will be rolled out in march. Perhaps the first copy takes that long to be made. Anyways lets hope for the best.
 

HRK

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What's the significance? What is the next stop.
It's better If someone from the field of Aeronautics comment on it but as far as I understand as a layman this indicates that the integration work is in under progress ..... next step might be related to the Aerial testing
 

raahaat7

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Just because they can pump out 12 aircraft a year doesn't mean it takes 1 month to build one aircraft. They build 4-6 simultaneously and it takes them 4-6 months for each aircraft.

These numbers are just an example of course
Ok. Thanks for the answer.
 

raahaat7

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It's better If someone from the field of Aeronautics comment on it but as far as I understand as a layman this indicates that the integration work is in under progress ..... next step might be related to the Aerial testing
Thanks sir.
 

raahaat7

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Hi,

You are correct in your comments---. There are different levels of stealth and Paf has tried a few methods with quite a bit of success over the decades.

The size of the JF 17 and side intakes are another attempt to make it appear " stealthier " . Another effort is a smaller flatter canopy rather than a bubble canopy---. The side intakes rather than the belly intake help reduce the signature of the aircaft---.

The experimentation with the mirage aircrafts was a successful episode of making stealthier aircraft---.
Hi,

Semi stealth technology is not a new concept but an old one---. I have never discussed it---why---no reason to---if general public does not know it---they don't need to know it---.

@TaimiKhan will tell you guys of our version of years ago as to what we did

Illiterate people do not know that the original design of the JF17 was 25% larger design---which got compromised due to certain reason.

Illiterate people do not know that Grippen also upr=graded their aircraft to an almost 25% largest aircraft in the form of a grippen NG---.

Illiterate people also do not know that F18 Hornet also got bigger in the later production years----.

JF17 blk3 is just the begining of changes yet to come in the JF17's---.

And to someone's comment of engine being not powerful enough---.

In modern day air combat---engine is the least of the problems. The F35 is a flying hog---but its electronics would not let your electronic sensor driven missile see it even if it was flying right in front of the face---.
Yes, but then again with a very much different engine and not the current RD-93 ...



Again with the definition of what's copy or clone you seem to have a different definition of size!
You probably mean by volume and even if it indeed shows a growth of +20%, this is not 25% as you claim

Even more - and only illiterate people would deliberately omit to mention this - Saab had the option for a much more powerful engine with much more thrust (+22.5 %) for roughly similar dimensions, but this is an option CAC/PAC does not have for the JF-17; at least not yet (maybe when the WS-19 is ready).

As such a dramatically enlarged JF-17 in the same way as the F/A-18A/C grew or evolved to the Super Hornet is surely not impossible, but CAC will not do this for cheap, Pakistan cannot afford it alone and it will take time since it would require a new different engine ... and here we would again end up in a type similar to the J-10. But again, only "illiterate people" would omit to tell this in order to look others like fools, as if such a development would be easy, cheap and possible in just a few years.

View attachment 670384
View attachment 670385



Let's wait and see ...
Is some work being done to aquire the stealth technology? If yes how far have we travelled.
 
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raahaat7

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Yes and No. Pakistan should aim for a similar platform, but with a new partner to gain more ToT and incorporate new suppliers into its aerospace projects. I’m not saying Pakistan should stop cooperating with the Chinese defense industry, rather it should have a separate project to incorporate western technology. The Turks will soon face the Rafale in the hands of the Greeks, and may face worse sooner rather then later. They also have an issue being allowed to upgrade their F-16s. They have access to world class thermoplastic composite manufacturing meant for the F-35 program and their industry needs sales to recover from the loss of F-35 contracts. If Pakistan and Turkey go in for an order of a 150 Semi-Stealthy single engine F-35 type aircraft each, similar to the semi-stealthy K-FX, it would maximize economies of scale, advance Project AZM and make us interoperable with another ally. It would also help get Pakistan off of any further dependency on the F-16, especially if there is no prospect of it getting upgraded.

The middle design with a Pelikan tail and a F110 class engine being developed by TRMotor, would be a good replacement for the F-16 if the costs can be kept to $50-60 Million helps bridge the technological divides between the JF-17 and Project AZM.

pakistan has experience with DSI intake as well as all the advances up to the Block III, manufacturing much of the plane, which would make it a good partner that can contribute to a joint project with Turkey.

View attachment 669635
Yes and No. Pakistan should aim for a similar platform, but with a new partner to gain more ToT and incorporate new suppliers into its aerospace projects. I’m not saying Pakistan should stop cooperating with the Chinese defense industry, rather it should have a separate project to incorporate western technology. The Turks will soon face the Rafale in the hands of the Greeks, and may face worse sooner rather then later. They also have an issue being allowed to upgrade their F-16s. They have access to world class thermoplastic composite manufacturing meant for the F-35 program and their industry needs sales to recover from the loss of F-35 contracts. If Pakistan and Turkey go in for an order of a 150 Semi-Stealthy single engine F-35 type aircraft each, similar to the semi-stealthy K-FX, it would maximize economies of scale, advance Project AZM and make us interoperable with another ally. It would also help get Pakistan off of any further dependency on the F-16, especially if there is no prospect of it getting upgraded.

The middle design with a Pelikan tail and a F110 class engine being developed by TRMotor, would be a good replacement for the F-16 if the costs can be kept to $50-60 Million helps bridge the technological divides between the JF-17 and Project AZM.

pakistan has experience with DSI intake as well as all the advances up to the Block III, manufacturing much of the plane, which would make it a good partner that can contribute to a joint project with Turkey.

View attachment 669635
Do we have the composites manufacturing capability? And at what stage.
 

FuturePAF

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Do we have the composites manufacturing capability? And at what stage.
I don’t know the current state composite manufacturing in Pakistan, but Turkey has technology to make composites up to the standard that it is used in the F-35.

A joint project with ToT would allow their industry to supply to our Air Force, while our industry would get the latest in manufacturing.

This should help speed up and make Project AZM the best we can make it. Making stealth fighters well is a very hard process, but if we get ToT, we can save a lot in R&D. If the cost is jointly building an interim fighter, IMHO it is worth it.
 

raahaat7

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I don’t know the current state composite manufacturing in Pakistan, but Turkey has technology to make composites up to the standard that it is used in the F-35.

A joint project with ToT would allow their industry to supply to our Air Force, while our industry would get the latest in manufacturing.

This should help speed up and make Project AZM the best we can make it. Making stealth fighters well is a very hard process, but if we get ToT, we can save a lot in R&D. If the cost is jointly building an interim fighter, IMHO it is worth it.
Agreed. From a civilian perspective the best thing about these space and military technologies is that they help create a whole lot of new industries for civilian use which are non existent before. Hope to see more progress in this field which has civilian use as well.
 

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