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JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 6]

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razgriz19

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It is not needed because a lot of the instructional training is being conducted through simulators. This is the trend world wide to cut the expense related to training sorties.
When the older aircraft were inducted (Mirages, F-16 A/Bs), the training on the type was conducted through two seaters because simulator technology had not evolved to where it is now. At least PAF has no interest in a JF-17 two seater. For export purposes, we may see one come along, but having trained over 80 pilots on JF-17 without a 2 seater is a testament to the type's user friendliness and the efficacy of the simulators.
Yeah, but since we have so many pilots, and the fact that our fleet would consist of less airplanes by 2020, we would need a trainer. PAF needs to give enough hours to everyone, they can't abuse the aircarft, but they can do that with a two seater.
 

My-Analogous

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Pakistan must send 5 JF17 to GCC so that they will see live performance of JF17 and may be some good order we will received from GCC
 

My-Analogous

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List of six Arab GCC (or AGCC) countries (Gulf countries), citizen nationalities, nations, or member states is Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, UAE. Yemen and Iran are Muslim countries but not GCC members. Population statistics, foreign expat resident percentages, currency, land area, other figures and data.
  1. Bahrain - or Kingdom of Bahrain
  2. Kuwait
  3. Oman - or Sultanate of Oman
  4. Qatar
  5. Saudi Arabia - or Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (KSA)
  6. UAE - United Arab Emirates
Gulf Cooperation Council - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

sergiobrevet

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thanks

in the opinion of the forum members, it would be useful to pakistan a two-seater with refueling probe
 

Donatello

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@MastanKhan Another hindrance to exports; it looks like a Kit built aircraft rather than a properly finished product.
The word Feng Shui means little I suppose. By contrast, the cockpit of a 40 year old F-16


Everything seems in its place and not bolted on, no open insulation, padding or jagged edges.
Sir, with due respect, have you ever compared the interior of, say a Mercedes Benz E-class (W211, W212 etc) and BMW 5 series, with their Japanese counterparts from Lexus/Infiniti and Honda Accord/Toyota Camry? Please do so (very easy since you are in US of A), and you'll realize the high price is not charged without no reason. While the Japanese have mastered the car, their quality of finish, the little attention to detail such as placing the relevant function buttons, navi, steering, lights controls etc is different to how Germans do it. Take a drive in the aforementioned products, preferably drive one. German saloons have seats that are not soft like those on Japanese/American cars....they are firm yet comfortable. The car's ride is stiff and taught...compared to a wallowy ride of an American vehicle (most pronounced at highway speeds)....Do you know why? because driving is a serious business in Germany, and they don't want you getting too comfy and hence, drowsy in soft seats.
Same is the case here....JF-17 was always meant to be a kit plane, first project by Pakistan, and under no instance can it be compared to the Western standards. Even F-4 Phantom had a better cockpit finish for it's day. Chinese/Soviets/Russians don't come close.
 

OTTOMAN

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Sir, with due respect, have you ever compared the interior of, say a Mercedes Benz E-class (W211, W212 etc) and BMW 5 series, with their Japanese counterparts from Lexus/Infiniti and Honda Accord/Toyota Camry? Please do so (very easy since you are in US of A), and you'll realize the high price is not charged without no reason. While the Japanese have mastered the car, their quality of finish, the little attention to detail such as placing the relevant function buttons, navi, steering, lights controls etc is different to how Germans do it. Take a drive in the aforementioned products, preferably drive one. German saloons have seats that are not soft like those on Japanese/American cars....they are firm yet comfortable. The car's ride is stiff and taught...compared to a wallowy ride of an American vehicle (most pronounced at highway speeds)....Do you know why? because driving is a serious business in Germany, and they don't want you getting too comfy and hence, drowsy in soft seats.
Same is the case here....JF-17 was always meant to be a kit plane, first project by Pakistan, and under no instance can it be compared to the Western standards. Even F-4 Phantom had a better cockpit finish for it's day. Chinese/Soviets/Russians don't come close.
As far my opinion is concerned, this example has gone totally bizarre :(
I really look forward to the reply of @MastanKhan :whistle:
 

Donatello

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As far my opinion is concerned, this example has gone totally bizarre :(
I really look forward to the reply of @MastanKhan :whistle:
I know, but what i wanted to highlight was, nations with 100 years of expertise in specific fields, will always do the job with increasing fervor. This is what we call 'cumulative advantage'

If you want a military example, i can give you another one. Having met some Pakistan Naval officers, i asked them what they felt the difference was between the British engineered and built Type 21s and the new Chinese build F-22s......and their reply was, that the British ones had better design quality than the new ones...small things like beams, welds, placement of electrical systems etc....even though Type 21s are long past their time (they were designed as cheap, escort vessels for RN), and yet they are still soldiering on, 40 years later.

Tons of such examples.....Oscar himself quoted in another thread the quality of American Jet engines vs the Soviet designs. That's how the west does Engineering buddy, and that is why they are still decades ahead of any other region.

Little things matter a lot. Perhaps a simpler one would be Apple iphone6 vs Qmobile or Xiaomi.
 

ali_raza

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I know, but what i wanted to highlight was, nations with 100 years of expertise in specific fields, will always do the job with increasing fervor. This is what we call 'cumulative advantage'

If you want a military example, i can give you another one. Having met some Pakistan Naval officers, i asked them what they felt the difference was between the British engineered and built Type 21s and the new Chinese build F-22s......and their reply was, that the British ones had better design quality than the new ones...small things like beams, welds, placement of electrical systems etc....even though Type 21s are long past their time (they were designed as cheap, escort vessels for RN), and yet they are still soldiering on, 40 years later.

Tons of such examples.....Oscar himself quoted in another thread the quality of American Jet engines vs the Soviet designs. That's how the west does Engineering buddy, and that is why they are still decades ahead of any other region.

Little things matter a lot. Perhaps a simpler one would be Apple iphone6 vs Qmobile or Xiaomi.
offcoarce u r right.i talked with a navy guy too.when i went to OHP and he said that this thing is faaaar faaar better then f22p in reliability and operations
 

aziqbal

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Pakistan must send 5 JF17 to GCC so that they will see live performance of JF17 and may be some good order we will received from GCC
Chances of GCC buying JF-17 is zero, UAE is donating Mirage 2005 which is a premier aircraft even in the West

As a matter of fact they are also looking to replace Mirage 2000-9 that should tell you something
 

My-Analogous

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Chances of GCC buying JF-17 is zero, UAE is donating Mirage 2005 which is a premier aircraft even in the West

As a matter of fact they are also looking to replace Mirage 2000-9 that should tell you something
We have market in SA ans as well as Egypt, if you check JF17 thread, we discussed it their.
 

ACE OF THE AIR

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It will be built within time if the Customer wishes it, by that time an initial trained cadre from the customer will have completed training to return home to their first aircraft.
By now a two seat JF-17b could be in production line if it is to be shown in the next air show.
 

Mughal-Prince

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Chances of GCC buying JF-17 is zero, UAE is donating Mirage 2005 which is a premier aircraft even in the West

As a matter of fact they are also looking to replace Mirage 2000-9 that should tell you something
They are not premium market to us as they can spend money like any thing and can even have a gold plated cars to drive so don't worry about the spoilt brats :).
 
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