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JF-17 Thunder as a replacement for Moroccan F-5 & F-1 fleet?

Chak Bamu

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News: Moroccan F-X Program | Royal Moroccan Armed Forces

News: Moroccan F-X Program

The Moroccan F-X program has been established to enable the Royal Moroccan Air Force to buy a new aircraft to replace the Northrop F-5 Tiger III for the next decade.

Although the formal request for proposals has not been released, several competitors are expected to submit existing aircraft and others are considering all new designs.

What we know is that the chineses, through CATIC, have proposed an industrial cooperation and proposed their Chengdu/PAC JF-17 Thunder.

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Evidently this link is a little dated (29 April, 2014). It is nice that CATIC is pushing FC-1 / JF-17.

It is interesting to note that RMAF operates the following aricraft:
F-16 C/D Blk 52: 24 (16+8)
Mirage F1: 33(?) (27 upgraded + 5-7) Dassault Mirage F1 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
F-5: 32 (8 F-5B/F III for training + 24 F-5E III Fighters) Northrop F-5 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Alpha Jet : 24 CAS/Trainer Dassault/Dornier Alpha Jet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of active Moroccan military aircraft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

One can see that JF-17 can easily replace F-5, and provided a twin-seat version is made, can take over training role of F-5 as well. Moreover, Mirage F-1 is getting old as well and airforces the world over are retiring them. The specifications are not too different from JF-17. So, F-1 can also be replaced with JF-17 if RMAF so chooses. Lastly, Alpha Jets can also be replaced with JF-17, but their role and specifications are quite different. Evidently they can soldier on as trainers while JF-17 takes over CAS because of its multi-role nature.

With F-16 Blk 52 and JF-17 based force, RMAF can replicate PAF's model of hi-lo setup with potent multirole combat aircraft in a very cost-effective configuration.

My guess is that they could eventually buy between 60-90 planes.
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The above is being cross-posted from JF-17 thread. Are there any Morroccan posters here who could help with the discussion here?
 

Basel

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Instead for rushing for sale of JF-17s we should try to mature it and should develop a high end variant of it for domestic use.
 

Luftwaffe

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News: Moroccan F-X Program | Royal Moroccan Armed Forces

News: Moroccan F-X Program

The Moroccan F-X program has been established to enable the Royal Moroccan Air Force to buy a new aircraft to replace the Northrop F-5 Tiger III for the next decade.

Although the formal request for proposals has not been released, several competitors are expected to submit existing aircraft and others are considering all new designs.

What we know is that the chineses, through CATIC, have proposed an industrial cooperation and proposed their Chengdu/PAC JF-17 Thunder.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Evidently this link is a little dated (29 April, 2014). It is nice that CATIC is pushing FC-1 / JF-17.

It is interesting to note that RMAF operates the following aricraft:
F-16 C/D Blk 52: 24 (16+8)
Mirage F1: 33(?) (27 upgraded + 5-7) Dassault Mirage F1 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
F-5: 32 (8 F-5B/F III for training + 24 F-5E III Fighters) Northrop F-5 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Alpha Jet : 24 CAS/Trainer Dassault/Dornier Alpha Jet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of active Moroccan military aircraft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

One can see that JF-17 can easily replace F-5, and provided a twin-seat version is made, can take over training role of F-5 as well. Moreover, Mirage F-1 is getting old as well and airforces the world over are retiring them. The specifications are not too different from JF-17. So, F-1 can also be replaced with JF-17 if RMAF so chooses. Lastly, Alpha Jets can also be replaced with JF-17, but their role and specifications are quite different. Evidently they can soldier on as trainers while JF-17 takes over CAS because of its multi-role nature.

With F-16 Blk 52 and JF-17 based force, RMAF can replicate PAF's model of hi-lo setup with potent multirole combat aircraft in a very cost-effective configuration.

My guess is that they could eventually buy between 60-90 planes.
------------------------------------------------
The above is being cross-posted from JF-17 thread. Are there any Morroccan posters here who could help with the discussion here?
I think F-1s have been upgraded, my views are Moroccans will replace it with 4.5/5th Gen in the Future.
 

KalaGhoda

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ok..it may sound rude, but here's the piece.

the only people who will buy jf-17 are the people who can't afford any better. now, russians are also not in best of financial shape. now, why will anybody go through a chinese bird made in pakistan route when russians themselves will come up with soft loans, second hand stuff in excellent condition with full tot, why would anyone ?
 

TheFlyingPretzel

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ok..it may sound rude, but here's the piece.

the only people who will buy jf-17 are the people who can't afford any better. now, russians are also not in best of financial shape. now, why will anybody go through a chinese bird made in pakistan route when russians themselves will come up with soft loans, second hand stuff in excellent condition with full tot, why would anyone ?
Because the JF-17 will give you value for money. There is nothing else on offer in this price range with the capabilities comparable to the Thunder's. Also your post doesn't make sense. How much did the acid come for?
 

KalaGhoda

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Because the JF-17 will give you value for money. There is nothing else on offer in this price range with the capabilities comparable to the Thunder's. Also your post doesn't make sense. How much did the acid come for?
umm..JF-17 is a variant of the chinese F-7, the mig - 21 ? with a better airframe compared to F-7, 4th gen avionics chinese in origin, russian engine...

why will they not go for mig - 29 starter kits...or su-30 mkm versions with only missiles and lgbs..russians will lease them too...u think they will not try to not loose a customer ?
 

TheFlyingPretzel

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umm..JF-17 is a variant of the chinese F-7, the mig - 21 ? with a better airframe compared to F-7, 4th gen avionics chinese in origin, russian engine...

why will they not go for mig - 29 starter kits...or su-30 mkm versions with only missiles and lgbs..russians will lease them too...u think they will not try to not loose a customer ?
The F-7 and the JFT are about as related as the MiG-29 and the Su-30 MKI. In the case of the latter, they both have wings, they're Russian and they fly. Hence the Su-30 is a variant of the MiG-29. Wouldn't you agree?

A brand new MiG 29 will put you back well over $35 million a piece and the operational cost of a single plane is around $5 million annually. As a matter of fact a 12 MiG-29K and 4 MiG-29KUB contract signed on the 20th of January 2004, by India, was worth Rs 3,405.61 crores as per CAG. For an exchange rate of 45.43 at that time, the amount translates to $749.7 million in 2004. Hence the average cost of a single MiG-29K was, at the time, $46.9 million.

The Thunder comes for less than half that price with a capability equally as comparable. There's simply nothing else on offer in its price-range.

The Su-30 is a completely different league of fighter aircraft. Unit costs start at $50+ million a piece.
 
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KalaGhoda

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i'm talking about starter kits..not 29Ks..these aircrafts are warbirds which are proven. the missiles, radars are proven in another aircraft to this aircraft fight. jf17 is not. it says on wiki that jf17 is a derivation from F7 with a cheaper version of the j10 avionics package and same missiles.

the advantages of choosing a basic version of a mig29 or a su30 mkms will be many more compared to jf17 as a matter of fact. if the russians offer them a good deal, they would choose these birds anyday. the whole point here being if and good deal.

why am i saying russian planes ? most of these deals and upgrades and new birds for AF kinda news revolve around replacing the mig21 variants. worldwide. how jf17 came to be.

point is, these guys have dealt with russians and flown their plane. F7 was a mig21 after all. the russians have better chance at retaining the mig21 customers. compared to the chinese.
 
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Chak Bamu

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Guys I am already discussing it on the JF-17 thread. My intention for starting a thread in the Arab Defense Section was to get input from someone from the region. Let us hear from someone from Morrocco.
 

Luftwaffe

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Morocco Air Force have received All F-16s in last 3-4 Years they are all brand new and atleast 10 Pilots have been trained with US Air National Guards and rest would be trained by these 10 pilots back in home. Lets look at it realistically they are just beginning their live with Vipers I do not think they would induct another new platform for some time not atleast a decade or close to it, but they do have plans in the next 10 Years, again plans do change.

My views are this F-X Program is to make competitors offer better pricing than the F-16s they bought at a higher cost to keep the Air Force in shape. If we carefully study their requirements could be to replace 13 F-1 [that are not modernized] and 22 F-5III. Just speculating Morocco could end up getting one more squadron of F-16s since they already operate the type in service. That could leave them with potential candidate for some 4th Gen to replace 18-22 F-5s it would be interesting who offers the best price and package...Rafale is already rejected in favor of F-16s earlier I do not think they would be replacing F-1/F-5s with Rafale due to costs and Typhoon is also equally expensive. What other platforms are left lets discuss.
 

Yzd Khalifa

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Why is the DR is that bloody expensive?
Morocco Air Force have received All F-16s in last 3-4 Years they are all brand new and atleast 10 Pilots have been trained with US Air National Guards and rest would be trained by these 10 pilots back in home. Lets look at it realistically they are just beginning their live with Vipers I do not think they would induct another new platform for some time not atleast a decade or close to it, but they do have plans in the next 10 Years, again plans do change.

My views are this F-X Program is to make competitors offer better pricing than the F-16s they bought at a higher cost to keep the Air Force in shape. If we carefully study their requirements could be to replace 13 F-1 [that are not modernized] and 22 F-5III. Just speculating Morocco could end up getting one more squadron of F-16s since they already operate the type in service. That could leave them with potential candidate for some 4th Gen to replace 18-22 F-5s it would be interesting who offers the best price and package...Rafale is already rejected in favor of F-16s earlier I do not think they would be replacing F-1/F-5s with Rafale due to costs and Typhoon is also equally expensive. What other platforms are left lets discuss.
 

Hakan

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News: Moroccan F-X Program | Royal Moroccan Armed Forces

News: Moroccan F-X Program

The Moroccan F-X program has been established to enable the Royal Moroccan Air Force to buy a new aircraft to replace the Northrop F-5 Tiger III for the next decade.

Although the formal request for proposals has not been released, several competitors are expected to submit existing aircraft and others are considering all new designs.

What we know is that the chineses, through CATIC, have proposed an industrial cooperation and proposed their Chengdu/PAC JF-17 Thunder.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Evidently this link is a little dated (29 April, 2014). It is nice that CATIC is pushing FC-1 / JF-17.

It is interesting to note that RMAF operates the following aricraft:
F-16 C/D Blk 52: 24 (16+8)
Mirage F1: 33(?) (27 upgraded + 5-7) Dassault Mirage F1 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
F-5: 32 (8 F-5B/F III for training + 24 F-5E III Fighters) Northrop F-5 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Alpha Jet : 24 CAS/Trainer Dassault/Dornier Alpha Jet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of active Moroccan military aircraft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

One can see that JF-17 can easily replace F-5, and provided a twin-seat version is made, can take over training role of F-5 as well. Moreover, Mirage F-1 is getting old as well and airforces the world over are retiring them. The specifications are not too different from JF-17. So, F-1 can also be replaced with JF-17 if RMAF so chooses. Lastly, Alpha Jets can also be replaced with JF-17, but their role and specifications are quite different. Evidently they can soldier on as trainers while JF-17 takes over CAS because of its multi-role nature.

With F-16 Blk 52 and JF-17 based force, RMAF can replicate PAF's model of hi-lo setup with potent multirole combat aircraft in a very cost-effective configuration.

My guess is that they could eventually buy between 60-90 planes.
------------------------------------------------
The above is being cross-posted from JF-17 thread. Are there any Morroccan posters here who could help with the discussion here?
@FARSOLDIER
 

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