What's new

JF-17 fighter jet gets J-20’s combat missile: reports (Global times)

Bilal.

SENIOR MEMBER
Aug 9, 2013
4,906
9
6,719
Dazzler has hinted enough for the bold - and yes the Indians too are working at a war footing and they have well qualified folks that trump us in many places too.
That’s understandable. Scope of my post was SPECTRA and the way it’s portrayed as competely unique system and answer to everything and the myth around it.

I remember long time ago someone saying very absurd things like it can soak up the EM noise generated by the aircrafts actuators for future identification. I mean come on!
 

Dazzler

PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
Oct 19, 2008
8,925
30
22,305
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
That’s understandable. Scope of my post was SPECTRA and the way it’s portrayed as competely unique system and answer to everything and the myth around it.

I remember long time ago someone saying very absurd things like it can soak up the EM noise generated by the aircrafts actuators for future identification. I mean come on!
Let them feel overconfident. It works well for us.
 

denel

PROFESSIONAL
Jul 12, 2013
6,481
2
11,052
Country
South Africa
Location
South Africa
That’s understandable. Scope of my post was SPECTRA and the way it’s portrayed as competely unique system and answer to everything and the myth around it.

I remember long time ago someone saying very absurd things like it can soak up the EM noise generated by the aircrafts actuators for future identification. I mean come on!
some good wine does that too.
 

Saleet

FULL MEMBER
Nov 12, 2012
157
0
69
There are countless other parameters such as the effectiveness of the Radar of the Fighter and the Missile (terminal), the NEZ of the missile, the ability of the missile to outspeed its target in head to tail chase from 100+ km's away, the ability of the Missile to seek the intended target from amidst clutter (chaffs, flares, decoys) etc., and it's ability to continue intended operation despite intense ECM & Jamming etc.......then come the ability of the target to be 'visible' to the radar of both the attacking Jet and the missile along with the target's ability to defend itself using electronic means (such as SPECTRA on Rafale) or simply to outspeed or exhaust the missile etc.

And then come the ability of the missile to actually 'destroy' the target, after reaching it..........including hitting the target (kinetics & warhead) or proximity detonation (for maximum damage) etc.
F16 may be superior to the majority of the features like you stated above and with a better radar performance, F16 may detect first but it still has to come around 100 KM to fire effectively.
On the other hand, JFT3 with AESA and PL15 will extend the engagement zone to somewhere around 150 KM, so by the time F16 Fires an AMRAAM it may have to escape 2/3 PL 15s first.
 

siegecrossbow

PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST
Aug 19, 2010
5,951
5
9,735
Country
China
Location
United States
F16 may be superior to the majority of the features like you stated above and with a better radar performance, F16 may detect first but it still has to come around 100 KM to fire effectively.
On the other hand, JFT3 with AESA and PL15 will extend the engagement zone to somewhere around 150 KM, so by the time F16 Fires an AMRAAM it may have to escape 2/3 PL 15s first.
One tactic I potentially see is for PAF to use the Block 3s to provide long distance firepower. PL-15 can force enemy fighters to take evasive actions/expend energy while other PAF fighter swoop in for the kill.
 

White and Green with M/S

SENIOR MEMBER
Oct 29, 2020
3,614
-2
1,940
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
How is the SPECTRA better ? Explain? It is essentially 90's tech as of now. The NEZ only comes into play if it is within launch parameters and we are saying it will never get into launch parameters as a PL15 will be coming towards the Rafale first, forcing the Rafale into a defensive posture at the start of the engagement.
And all 4.5th gen uses 90s tech such as EF2000 GRIPEN F16 BLOCK 50/52 Etc etc does this means their technology is obsolete???
And rest of your post doesn't make any sense to me

Look brother PL-15 and Meteor has almost same range 150-200 km range which means they have have almost equal NEZ

Get out of your fairytales brothers their will be no match for our block-3 vs Rafale
 

denel

PROFESSIONAL
Jul 12, 2013
6,481
2
11,052
Country
South Africa
Location
South Africa
And all 4.5th gen uses 90s tech such as EF2000 GRIPEN F16 BLOCK 50/52 Etc etc does this means their technology is obsolete???
And rest of your post doesn't make any sense to me

Look brother PL-15 and Meteor has almost same range 150-200 km range which means they have have almost equal NEZ

Get out of your fairytales brothers their will be no match for our block-3 vs Rafale
Only comment i can make right now is Chinese EW suite are unknown quantity; my experience with chinese equipment is well known. So anything that is claimed vs ground truth needs to be watered down significantly. But then again, give them time; they will get better. Same also applies to PL-15.
 

Bilal.

SENIOR MEMBER
Aug 9, 2013
4,906
9
6,719
Only comment i can make right now is Chinese EW suite are unknown quantity; my experience with chinese equipment is well known. So anything that is claimed vs ground truth needs to be watered down significantly. But then again, give them time; they will get better. Same also applies to PL-15.
On the other hand. From what I gather, PAF don’t really go off the shelf with the Chinese based on claims alone. It usually selects a base system and then has it refined and improved to the point that it really becomes effective and at par as advertised or more.
 

denel

PROFESSIONAL
Jul 12, 2013
6,481
2
11,052
Country
South Africa
Location
South Africa
On the other hand. From what I gather, PAF don’t really go off the shelf with the Chinese based on claims alone. It usually selects a base system and then has it refined and improved to the point that it really becomes effective and at par as advertised or more.
Noted: but you do not need PAF to do this work. You need independent RF engineering consortium specialising in RF testing and evaluations. Not sure if there is a company that handles this work.
 

Bilal.

SENIOR MEMBER
Aug 9, 2013
4,906
9
6,719
Noted: but you do not need PAF to do this work. You need independent RF engineering consortium specialising in RF testing and evaluations. Not sure if there is a company that handles this work.
I meant as an end user. It demands and ensures that the product meets the set criteria not just in claims but field tests.
 

White and Green with M/S

SENIOR MEMBER
Oct 29, 2020
3,614
-2
1,940
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
Yar 2 sd 10 le ja skta hy jf-17. F-16 can take 4 amraams.
Brother JFT is also able to carry 4 SD-10 if we put them in place of fuel drop tanks
Are you sure? Do you have any expertise to support that? Or you just mean "lay-man" easy because it seems easy to a lay-man.

What reason do you think we havent seen dual-rack SD-10s in operation yet? I am skeptical abouth the radar reason (current radar can only simultaneously engage 2 targets), the underlying assumption there is that you will just take 1 set of shots in the first flow and not re-engage. That's not how BVR tactics work.
Duel racks is created drag hence it will reduce range/speed of the jet, that's why its not operational
Only comment i can make right now is Chinese EW suite are unknown quantity; my experience with chinese equipment is well known. So anything that is claimed vs ground truth needs to be watered down significantly. But then again, give them time; they will get better. Same also applies to PL-15.
Then why we not had J-10 offered by China in early 2000??? the reason was that PAF was not satisfied the performance of J-10 especially its EW package with other unrelated reasons
 

denel

PROFESSIONAL
Jul 12, 2013
6,481
2
11,052
Country
South Africa
Location
South Africa
I meant as an end user. It demands and ensures that the product meets the set criteria not just in claims but field tests.
Yes, correct - but who is going to do the testing. You cannot rely on your supplier to do the testing.
Brother JFT is also able to carry 4 SD-10 if we put them in place of fuel drop tanks

Duel racks is created drag hence it will reduce range/speed of the jet, that's why its not operational

Then why we not had J-10 offered by China in early 2000??? the reason was that PAF was not satisfied the performance of J-10 especially its EW package with other unrelated reasons
see my other reply on chinese RF techology
 

SQ8

ADVISORS
Mar 28, 2009
35,519
413
74,985
Country
United States
Location
United States
Only comment i can make right now is Chinese EW suite are unknown quantity; my experience with chinese equipment is well known. So anything that is claimed vs ground truth needs to be watered down significantly. But then again, give them time; they will get better. Same also applies to PL-15.
I think they will/have iterated to a point where they are as good as Russian equipment although their paper specs don’t always match up(impact of the old quantity over quality philosophy) but as with their commercial electronics I see their military catching up too. What I always state is that they follow the same Russian pattern of having top notch stuff for their own internal consumption and then the plethora of Monkey models for export.

However, in one respect where the relationship between Pakistan and China does have depth is that now Pakistani companies are confident enough to return items labelled as Trash back to the Chinese to ask for their “A” quality even if it somewhat begrudgingly justified as “we loaned you cash for it” because the reply to that is “we are paying the loans off with interest”.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)


Top Bottom