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JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

Khan vilatey

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Do want Thunder to crawl all the way behind the enemy lines?
Thanks for moving this, one of the complaints from the alleged PAF pilot interview was the amount of armament carried. Today it is at
1) 2 sd-10s and two pl-8/10 for a cap with two or three fuel tanks.
2) with dual racks this would be a decent 4 sd-10s and 2 pl8 or 10 with 3 fuel tanks

3) the question really is that would we carry more pl-15s along with pl-10e in a fight , would it be useful

imagine this scenario. Two JF-17s block 3s take off from Saragodah and move north to conduct CAP. They take off with 3 fuel tanks to extend the CAP with 2 pl-15s 2 sd-10s and 2 pl-10 e. India repeats its feb 27th tactics but this time the su-30s and mirage from Indian Punjab enter Pakistan. The JF-17s on CAP will drop fuel tanks and use their PL-15s to engage the larger su-30s at range possible 110 kms from them. Then further commit as they move closer with sd-10s and finally taking on the mirages in a high off bore site pl-10s

I’m the above scenario with 4su-30 and 4 mirages were involved in the misadventures. these birds have a chance with this load out

if they carry 4 pl-15s and 2 snd-10s and 2 pl-10e we have an exponentially higher chance of success ?

I look forward to your feedback

k
 

The Eagle

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Thanks for moving this, one of the complaints from the alleged PAF pilot interview was the amount of armament carried. Today it is at
1) 2 sd-10s and two pl-8/10 for a cap with two or three fuel tanks.
2) with dual racks this would be a decent 4 sd-10s and 2 pl8 or 10 with 3 fuel tanks

3) the question really is that would we carry more pl-15s along with pl-10e in a fight , would it be useful

imagine this scenario. Two JF-17s block 3s take off from Saragodah and move north to conduct CAP. They take off with 3 fuel tanks to extend the CAP with 2 pl-15s 2 sd-10s and 2 pl-10 e. India repeats its feb 27th tactics but this time the su-30s and mirage from Indian Punjab enter Pakistan. The JF-17s on CAP will drop fuel tanks and use their PL-15s to engage the larger su-30s at range possible 110 kms from them. Then further commit as they move closer with sd-10s and finally taking on the mirages in a high off bore site pl-10s

I’m the above scenario with 4su-30 and 4 mirages were involved in the misadventures. these birds have a chance with this load out

if they carry 4 pl-15s and 2 snd-10s and 2 pl-10e we have an exponentially higher chance of success ?

I look forward to your feedback

k
I will suggest, 4 SD-10s with 2 PL-10 and drop tanks in CAP. Mind you, you don't want intruding jet to go down on its own side and in this case, PL-15 is useless since you are on ADA/CAP in peacetime.

When it comes to all out war, 2 PL-15, 2 or max 4 SD-10s, one large fuel tank and 2 PL-10 for the safe side and your jamming/targeting POD. I don't think you will stress the airframe that much for only few of sorties.

You just don't carry every missile with you but, I will rather bet on a Ramjet AAM in PAF. SD-10 is a capable missile and when mating with AESA. Can't say much. I can't say much. We need to calculate fuel, combat radius, time in the Air and firing parameters.

When coming face to face with a threat of Meteor, yes exactly one will keep them at the length and shoot like PL-15 but there you keep the chance of evading and getting into SD-10 range firing. The other side will shooting as well, if had the chance.

May be @SQ8 @Hodor can add much.
 

Big_bud

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The Sq Ldr is falling prey to the desire to win social brownie points if he's letting you in on a project secret. If you lot are sure its not sensitive info, then spill it out already. :-)



- Sanctioning India part is still up in the air. US isn't stupid enough to invoke CAATSA if it stands to lose more than gain from antagonizing India. India is a huge market and US already has extensive defense ties with Indian defense industry. This doesn't guarantee India protection from CAATSA but it does go a long way along that road.
- Not sure if you were serious or it was sarcasm when you said "Pakistan is a democratic country. Pakistan Army is not going to walk into Prime Minister's office and take power", i'm inclined towards the latter.




- Who has documented this other than some spokesperson from the foreign ministry or another internal source. Is there a third party (ideal if neutral) study on this that I could read. I'd like to see where those numbers came from, both $120 billion and $150 billion.
- What if the coalition shelved $150 billion, heck $250 billion on Pakistan? Who believes the defense czars, the bickering divided self centered power hungry polity, us complacent and self hyping people would've made Pakistan a modern democratic marvel, an oasis in the Muslim world.



Pakistan's economic woes are more due to education or lack thereof, refusal to move into the industrial age, bad economic policies and our collective ethos than any external factor. We rarely if ever have had CAD in the negative and the one such occasion was deep in the WoT alliance in 2000s when we were getting ample funding.
You give a poor man a fish and you feed him for a day. You teach him to fish and you give him an occupation that will feed him for a lifetime. We as a nation (a large majority) don't want to fish, we want fish fed to us, daily, all our lives leaving us just to continue to complain on the odd day life throws us daal rather than fish! Include me in this aforementioned majority, and no its not meant for the hard working and thinking minority.




I can easily imagine why generals are blamed, politicians to a lesser degree but judges pocketing from CSF inflows?



Similar engines doesn't mean parts are interchangeable or at least to a notable or worthwhile degree.









I will quote myself from another post and modify it a bit.

1- Failure (even if Tejas is one) leads to success. Read on.
2- Curious what you mean by PAF just needs marketing minds. It already has its own PR, it could seek help from ISPR is all. The kind of protectionist setup our forces have built, they hardly ever let any private player come in for defense apparatus is a 'holy cow'. Marketing is result oriented in the private field and not in the forces which use it mostly for national morale and for staying relevant and protected from internal eyebrows. It seems like a deadlock.
3- It pains me that our keyboard warriors (often highly educated) dismiss and mock India. Sometimes industries struggle for decades before they cross a threshold, a tipping point. India is almost on that tipping point while we're languishing far far behind. Before critical mass, industries are often appear zero sum games and after the tipping point 1+1=11 in most cases.

- India is fast finding local sources for complex aviation parts like extremely critical actuators that go on a jet fighter, the composites, the semiconductor tech involved among other things. They have local composite fuselage manufacturing techniques already understood , local weapons suite and local radar in process. India needs to refine and reimage Tejas and they are doing that already with TEDBF and Tejas Mk2.
- India is already building fuselages of latest Apache AH-64 and C130s manufacture, the ancient version of latter, we are struggling to keep flying.
- India is trying its hand at building aircraft carriers and SSBNs. Do you even remotely comprehend the industrial might required to undertake such projects. They will struggle, they will stumble but they'll end up better than us for they are building a massive industrial base and encouraging private players to partake in defense which will inevitably lead to cutthroat competition, fast development and most importantly tangible results.
- Indian private manufacturers are fast gaining traction inside their Army vehicle and weapon manufacturing, we have been fed the entire "self reliance, Indigenous capability, transfer of technology" thing since Agusta 90B, Al-Khalid, Al-Zarrar tanks, and Naval boat manufacture. However, did we manufacture a single Agusta 90B after we got the entire 'technology transfer'. We continue to purchase naval ships from Turkey, China and Romania. For Army, we've finally signed off on Chinese VT4 tanks. Things are unravelling and unravelling fast, claims of our powers are all falling in front of our eyes and we'd be our worst enemies to still ignore these signs.

Our keyboard warrior skills won't help us win a war with India unless we at least have this consensus that we need to at least not fight over silly matters of seeing India as a serious threat or just brush it off."



What do you base this information on, all conjecture or do you have any circumstantial evidence to back this, evidence that makes sense to most? PAF jets per all reliable reports didn't cross over let alone JF17s. The only such claim was made by IAF initially (about F16s) to show Pakistan as aggressor but they backtracked swiftly as it didn't fly well in their chosen line of defense with the global audience. More importantly, why risk getting your jet downed in enemy territory when you are carrying SOWs?
Its not that simple. If America was under political interference and influence of Russia, if America had a Russian puppet of a president, if it was stuck in a war in which it lost 80,000 people and hundred of thousands handicapped & crippled by constant terrorist attacks, it would have been in a bigger mess, you would have seen more homeless beggars in America than here. Some of our leaders have indeed made bad economic decisions, most of those leaders were western puppets. Pakistan did not refuse industrialisation, at one point Pakistan was fastest growing economy. Chinese engineers were coming to Pakistan to observe our industrial revolution. Sadly nationalisation and several other blunders killed it but that does mean we can not take off again. It will take time, but I can tell you for sure. Pakistanis are more disciplined and ready to work harder than your average worker in the west, average westerner is much more complacent in my view. But regardless, we need to build our nation and regressive & pessimist thinking would not help. We can achieve much more than we think we can.

Secondly yes, obviously every RD variant part might not be interchangeable with RD93s but there's a high probability most would. The main deference in RD93 vs 33 is repositioned gearbox. Only an engineer related to the field can answer that for sure.
 
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Deino

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….Would be interesting to see if they withhold the PL15 to pressure Pakistan into going for the J10D by only making it available on the J10D.

Is there a certain reason why you are so obsessed with the J-10D? Therefore again, there is no J-10D and from all we know for the moment there is not even an idea for such a type for Pakistan. So leave it.
 

airmarshal

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RD-93MA is the Russian baggage. Turkey offered Pakistan to rebuild the JF-17 with Aselsan's and TAI Avionics. TAI avionics and a Rolls-Royce engine will be more appealing to many foreign buyers. On top of that Denel A-Darter integration for Block III would be a great option.

Malaysia already said they have reservation about Russian engines. RD-93MA is the modified RD-33.


View attachment 779013
By the way, forget about Rolls Royce engine after Argentina offer. That is, if there was any chance.
 

iLION12345_1

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Can we find the source of this photo
Clearly one of the biggest news this confirms that JF17can carry 4 or possibly 6 SD 10s
This has been known since the wing reinforcements in block 2, it’s just that PAF never uses the configuration, this is the first photo of it (it is a JF, can tell by the wings).
It may be because of TWR/drag reasons, it can surely carry and fly with them just fine, but on a light aircraft with a single engine it can reduce the aircraft’s performance to a point where they are not comfortable with it.
And the JF-17 really doesn’t need to carry more than 2 BVRs in most cases. I suppose if really needed such a configuration can be used and we may see it more often once JF hopefully gets a new engine.
 

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