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JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

messiach

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Such deals are impossible. Thats why i said ToT XG-40A which of-course brits will never disclose.

Wonderful. Now can you please support your arguments with some hard data? You think that Denel can modify the A darter but PL 10 has not been modified! For your information SD 10 had the quickest induction in PAF'S history (courtest Mr Bilal khan777).
As to your last comment regarding Denel modifying data link to be supported by KLJ7A. WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WILL GIVE DENEL THE SOURCE CODES OF THEIR AESA RADAR!!!! Youare either naive or you think you are talking to fools. Please also read PACfacilities for integration of hardware. When I dont know something I accept I do not know it but dont try to wing it. I also dont believe in conversing with Mr Know it alls when they dont know jack.
Bring up hard data comparing both missiles or dont bother responding to my post again
A
What pictures? Dual racks is old news now. It was tested in wing loading studies.

So we have 4 BVRs and 2 WVR missiles.
Now will they be able to carry external fuel tanks on its wings? They will carry center line fuel tank for sure but what about other two on wings.

@JamD ,@Bilal Khan (Quwa) ,@messiach ,@The Eagle @MastanKhan this is something big.plz come here with your thoughts.
 

The Eagle

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Keysersoze

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Let's be fair to where fairness is needed. The Tejas program is just starting in terms of becoming mature. You don't build an industry base with 5 years of experience and having a multitude of foreign experts involved. Slowly but surely, they will get it. The 5k companies came into the picture recently not 20 years ago. And NO, I am NOT an Indian, but I also don't go against the gravity. Information should be discussed with honesty. 20 years from now, the future may lie between US, China and India being the top 3 powers. Indian stock market is going to be #3 by 2024 so the writing is on the wall.
I for one love the Tejas program. It has caused the drop in squadron numbers for the IAF. It has sucked up funds for projects that could have caused problems and it shows that designing a plane takes a lot of work even for countries that have vast experience. This project started when I was a boy and I am approaching retirement now and the MK1A order will be complete by the time I will be sitting the sun having a cold drink.
 

Ali_Baba

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I am less interested in Dual Rack SD10s on the Block III and more interested to see if China has released the PL15 to Pakistan for the Block III.

If China has decided to release the PL15 for the JF17, that is a significant material change. Would be interesting to see if they withhold the PL15 to pressure Pakistan into going for the J10D by only making it available on the J10D.

JF17s loaded with 4 BVRs and 2 WVRs...having the capability to be able to launch from any jet(JF17) within range...being able to lock on after launch and guided through datalink with AWACS or another JF17...
...that would be amazing 😍
That is the network centric capabilities that the JF17 is built around - most of PAFs strategy is based on a modified copy of Swedens aerial doctrine - and Gripen forms the basis of that "design" pattern.

The Swedes were messing around with datalinks before anyone else and they have built up some impressive capabilities between the Gripen and the Erieye.

Having the Erieye has allowed PAF to see some of these concepts and incorporate them.
 

DJ_Viper

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I for one love the Tejas program. It has caused the drop in squadron numbers for the IAF. It has sucked up funds for projects that could have caused problems and it shows that designing a plane takes a lot of work even for countries that have vast experience. This project started when I was a boy and I am approaching retirement now and the MK1A order will be complete by the time I will be sitting the sun having a cold drink.

For once I found an Indian publisher on youtube who is being honest about the Tejas program. Hats off to this guy for being honest and speaking the reality:


Answer to your post in your own words....
This sentence has a meaning? Care to give out "confidential" details behind this "secret" sentence?
 

Clutch

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Would you let students ever grade their own exam performance? or have them write reasons for poor results for the official scho
Okay then... Give me Chinese reports for American economy. Then give me American reports on South African economy please? Then I will give you British reports on Pakistan's government performance.
 

serenity

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Alenia Aspide is not related to PL-10 in any way wow wtf lol.

Aspide served as China's first ability to look at modern western missile in the 1980s following Sino Soviet split. A lot of learning from Aspide as well as some Israeli Pythons on modern western missile back in the 1980s. Soviet ones we also had access to even up to R-77 from 1990s level.

PL-10 is a WVR missile. Aspide is between but a very old thing now. Of course development paths since 1980s have changed and changed million times like human migration pattern out of Africa.

PL-10 is like Aspide just like Mercedes S Class is like a tractor. So not very alike.

PL-10 is so much better than A-Darter LOL A-Darter vs PL-10?? Okay sure sure :pleasantry: whatever you say Denel.

I guess Indian $20 smartphone also better than $2000 Huawei developed with billion dollar labs. Continue rubbish talk and mental gymnastics but this but that. Fact is PL-10 makes A-Darter look like a toy if any airforce want to test between them. Difference will be bigger than when Turkey tested FD-2000 against S-300, Patriot, and Aster 30. PL-10 is said to be able to intercept missiles and only Aim-9X is able to do this with reliability. ASRAAM and Iris-T are also great but A-Darter is one step below. It makes sense consider the budgets each plays with and has access to thousands more better engineers and billions of dollars more by a country that demands it to be done.

PL-10 development looked carefully at A-Darter and the best new generation short range missiles. It is very long ranged as well and quite an expensive thing. Range is extended quite a lot compared to older generation WVR missiles. Similar aerodynamics to Iris-T and A-Darter and the second seeker. PAF can test it and see and try some of those older A-Darter and compare please. It'll be like newest AMD against Pentium 2.
 

Cookie Monster

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That is the network centric capabilities that the JF17 is built around - most of PAFs strategy is based on a modified copy of Swedens aerial doctrine - and Gripen forms the basis of that "design" pattern.

The Swedes were messing around with datalinks before anyone else and they have built up some impressive capabilities between the Gripen and the Erieye.

Having the Erieye has allowed PAF to see some of these concepts and incorporate them.
Whatever it may be based on...it is going to be very effective in a defensive posture...especially if PL15 is going to be acquired(and in numbers). If what we are discussing here is true(as in the ability exists)...then hundreds of JF17(being able to base hop...in Pakistani skies under cover of AWACS, standoff jammers, and ground based air defense and radars)...carrying these A2A missiles that can be launched and controlled by other assets(lock on after launch and datalinked guidance)...all radars painting a comprehensive picture of the battlefield across Pak airspace...
...all this together...is going to give a really really tough time to the enemy if they try to infiltrate. It would be an immense challenge for them to intrude in Pakistani airspace and come out unscathed...which will limit them to either only being able to make quick shallow thrusts(and then turn tail with full afterburner) or launch from standoff range within their airspace.
 

ziaulislam

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The Sq Ldr is falling prey to the desire to win social brownie points if he's letting you in on a project secret. If you lot are sure its not sensitive info, then spill it out already. :-)



- Sanctioning India part is still up in the air. US isn't stupid enough to invoke CAATSA if it stands to lose more than gain from antagonizing India. India is a huge market and US already has extensive defense ties with Indian defense industry. This doesn't guarantee India protection from CAATSA but it does go a long way along that road.
- Not sure if you were serious or it was sarcasm when you said "Pakistan is a democratic country. Pakistan Army is not going to walk into Prime Minister's office and take power", i'm inclined towards the latter.




- Who has documented this other than some spokesperson from the foreign ministry or another internal source. Is there a third party (ideal if neutral) study on this that I could read. I'd like to see where those numbers came from, both $120 billion and $150 billion.
- What if the coalition shelved $150 billion, heck $250 billion on Pakistan? Who believes the defense czars, the bickering divided self centered power hungry polity, us complacent and self hyping people would've made Pakistan a modern democratic marvel, an oasis in the Muslim world.



Pakistan's economic woes are more due to education or lack thereof, refusal to move into the industrial age, bad economic policies and our collective ethos than any external factor. We rarely if ever have had CAD in the negative and the one such occasion was deep in the WoT alliance in 2000s when we were getting ample funding.
You give a poor man a fish and you feed him for a day. You teach him to fish and you give him an occupation that will feed him for a lifetime. We as a nation (a large majority) don't want to fish, we want fish fed to us, daily, all our lives leaving us just to continue to complain on the odd day life throws us daal rather than fish! Include me in this aforementioned majority, and no its not meant for the hard working and thinking minority.



I can easily imagine why generals are blamed, politicians to a lesser degree but judges pocketing from CSF inflows?



Similar engines doesn't mean parts are interchangeable or at least to a notable or worthwhile degree.









I will quote myself from another post and modify it a bit.

1- Failure (even if Tejas is one) leads to success. Read on.
2- Curious what you mean by PAF just needs marketing minds. It already has its own PR, it could seek help from ISPR is all. The kind of protectionist setup our forces have built, they hardly ever let any private player come in for defense apparatus is a 'holy cow'. Marketing is result oriented in the private field and not in the forces which use it mostly for national morale and for staying relevant and protected from internal eyebrows. It seems like a deadlock.
3- It pains me that our keyboard warriors (often highly educated) dismiss and mock India. Sometimes industries struggle for decades before they cross a threshold, a tipping point. India is almost on that tipping point while we're languishing far far behind. Before critical mass, industries are often appear zero sum games and after the tipping point 1+1=11 in most cases.

- India is fast finding local sources for complex aviation parts like extremely critical actuators that go on a jet fighter, the composites, the semiconductor tech involved among other things. They have local composite fuselage manufacturing techniques already understood , local weapons suite and local radar in process. India needs to refine and reimage Tejas and they are doing that already with TEDBF and Tejas Mk2.
- India is already building fuselages of latest Apache AH-64 and C130s manufacture, the ancient version of latter, we are struggling to keep flying.
- India is trying its hand at building aircraft carriers and SSBNs. Do you even remotely comprehend the industrial might required to undertake such projects. They will struggle, they will stumble but they'll end up better than us for they are building a massive industrial base and encouraging private players to partake in defense which will inevitably lead to cutthroat competition, fast development and most importantly tangible results.
- Indian private manufacturers are fast gaining traction inside their Army vehicle and weapon manufacturing, we have been fed the entire "self reliance, Indigenous capability, transfer of technology" thing since Agusta 90B, Al-Khalid, Al-Zarrar tanks, and Naval boat manufacture. However, did we manufacture a single Agusta 90B after we got the entire 'technology transfer'. We continue to purchase naval ships from Turkey, China and Romania. For Army, we've finally signed off on Chinese VT4 tanks. Things are unravelling and unravelling fast, claims of our powers are all falling in front of our eyes and we'd be our worst enemies to still ignore these signs.

Our keyboard warrior skills won't help us win a war with India unless we at least have this consensus that we need to at least not fight over silly matters of seeing India as a serious threat or just brush it off."



What do you base this information on, all conjecture or do you have any circumstantial evidence to back this, evidence that makes sense to most? PAF jets per all reliable reports didn't cross over let alone JF17s. The only such claim was made by IAF initially (about F16s) to show Pakistan as aggressor but they backtracked swiftly as it didn't fly well in their chosen line of defense with the global audience. More importantly, why risk getting your jet downed in enemy territory when you are carrying SOWs?
And who gave legal arm to the generals??
Have you forgot what gave and brought mushi
What lets PPPP PMLN PTI do corruption
Its always the big three working together
 

Khan vilatey

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Heard recently about dual racks for jf-17 block 2 and 3 for air to air operations. What will be the load out

wishful me
8-pl-15s and 2 pl-10e

more realistic
4 pl-15 , 2 pl-10e 3 fuel tanks

or

4 pl-15 , 4 pl 10e 1 fuel tank

most probably
2 pl-15 , 4 pl-12 2 pl-10e , 1 fuel tank

it possible to carry different missiles on dual racks then a possibility could be

super high endurance CAP/ regular cap

2 pl-15, 2 pl-12 , 2 pl-10e , ECMS pod on chin, three fuel tanks and refueling probe

which ones make most sense

k
 

The Eagle

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I hate to delete long posts given the time and energy by members, but Derailment can be saved only by such actions. So, can we get back to the topic in hand and take politics somewhere else.

Regards,
 

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