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JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

FuturePAF

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Spear 3 is a smart munition, there is something the yanks are working on which is what I was referring to. you deploy a turbofan powered aerial vehicle that looks like a cruise missile which can be retrieved too after mission is over. I can't remember what it was called.
Your talking about gremlins.

 

JamD

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I wish we can produce 50 per year,
we need 2-3 Kamra like installations across the country, i think Bohlari is being developed as another one
We tend to forget that producing more aircraft actually costs more money (obvious when you read it but we forget). PAF isn't exactly swimming in money. So they spread the costs (and consequently the production) over time with cost being one of several factors I admit. The point is that if PAF had twice the money available each year they would probably double annual production - capacity is not the bottleneck (not yet at least).
 

araz

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In addition to the upgradation of older JF-17s, PAC and Chinese partners may expedite the JF-17 manufacturing schedule by doubling the yearly production ie around 30+ aircraft. 24 aircraft for PAF use and remaining to meet export demand.

In the meantime, AvRID may be tasked to work on offshoot of JF-17 with two RD-93MAs, semi-stealth aerodynamic design and indigenous avionics package.

Since US AID is an impossible dream, and buying costly F-16 upgradation with what not restrictions not being a viable option, PAF meagre budget can be better utilized in producing indigenous or semi-indigenous JF-17 Block 3s and upgradation of older JF-17 fleet.
You would not be able to induct this mamy number of planes in the time frame. I suspect a lot goes into standing a squadron with a new set of planes, including local infrastructure for maimtenance and repairs. That plus training of personnel takes time which is/why we generally do not have more than a suadron stood up with JFT yearly.So even if you/could produce the 50 planes you wanted,firstly what will happen with the imfrastructure and traiming and who will pay for the platforms.
A
 

Marker

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We tend to forget that producing more aircraft actually costs more money (obvious when you read it but we forget). PAF isn't exactly swimming in money. So they spread the costs (and consequently the production) over time with cost being one of several factors I admit. The point is that if PAF had twice the money available each year they would probably double annual production - capacity is not the bottleneck (not yet at least).
You would not be able to induct this mamy number of planes in the time frame. I suspect a lot goes into standing a squadron with a new set of planes, including local infrastructure for maimtenance and repairs. That plus training of personnel takes time which is/why we generally do not have more than a suadron stood up with JFT yearly.So even if you/could produce the 50 planes you wanted,firstly what will happen with the imfrastructure and traiming and who will pay for the platforms.
A
I do agree with you. Nothing is free, even if it is being produced indigenously.

But most of the respected PDF members are having a very strong opinion about PAF inducting a new 4+ gen aircraft from China or Russia or Sweden to fill the "gap" and to replace F-7s and old Mirages. Some are in favor of F-16 upgradation and procurement of additional F-16s.

As I stated earlier, under current geopolitical circumstances, US AID is out of question. Cost of F-16 upgradation and procurement of additional F-16s is out of reach for PAF.

Cost of inducting a new 4+ gen air platform is very high comparing to induction of air platform which is already in use. However. rate of induction will depend on the availability of financial resources. Provision of trained and skilled human resource for one squadron on yearly basis will not a big deal for PAF. Support infrastructure, tooling, test rigs and various JF-17 specific maintenance support equipment will be needed for each new squadron to cater first and second level of maintenance.
 

GiG

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I think after India's approval of TEJAS induction the idea of F-21 is gone, Lockhead will definitely look for new customers and PAF may have an opportunity (with Lockheed lobbying) here if they are interested. Not sure how things will work out but due to Iran's situation I assume the US administration will be eager to keep Pakistan in its sphere of influence and an affordable F-16 deal with upgrades is one way of doing it.


 

SD 10

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I think after India's approval of TEJAS induction the idea of F-21 is gone, Lockhead will definitely look for new customers and PAF may have an opportunity (with Lockheed lobbying) here if they are interested. Not sure how things will work out but due to Iran's situation I assume the US administration will be eager to keep Pakistan in its sphere of influence and an affordable F-16 deal with upgrades is one way of doing it.


we pakistanis have mastered the art of khiali pulao!
 

jupiter2007

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Let me preface this by saying I am quite a noob in matters related to warfare.



Isn't it a strategic disadvantage in having 300 jets of the same type albeit a competent jet like the Thunder. The enemy only has one kind of jet to strategize against.
I think after India's approval of TEJAS induction the idea of F-21 is gone, Lockhead will definitely look for new customers and PAF may have an opportunity (with Lockheed lobbying) here if they are interested. Not sure how things will work out but due to Iran's situation I assume the US administration will be eager to keep Pakistan in its sphere of influence and an affordable F-16 deal with upgrades is one way of doing it.


There was an opportunity if Afghan peace deal was completed during Trump term but COVID and Afghan internal politics ruined that chance.

It’s still possible but don’t think Indian lobby will stay quite. They will try to create another fails flag incident and blame it on Pakistan.

Let’s hope that USA allow us to purchase surplus F-16s and upgrade package.
 

JamD

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I do agree with you. Nothing is free, even if it is being produced indigenously.

But most of the respected PDF members are having a very strong opinion about PAF inducting a new 4+ gen aircraft from China or Russia or Sweden to fill the "gap" and to replace F-7s and old Mirages. Some are in favor of F-16 upgradation and procurement of additional F-16s.

As I stated earlier, under current geopolitical circumstances, US AID is out of question. Cost of F-16 upgradation and procurement of additional F-16s is out of reach for PAF.

Cost of inducting a new 4+ gen air platform is very high comparing to induction of air platform which is already in use. However. rate of induction will depend on the availability of financial resources. Provision of trained and skilled human resource for one squadron on yearly basis will not a big deal for PAF. Support infrastructure, tooling, test rigs and various JF-17 specific maintenance support equipment will be needed for each new squadron to cater first and second level of maintenance.
I think if you follow the J10 discussions closely you'll see that the possible J10 buy isn't purely for filling a numbers gap, but about filling a capability gap as well. I have speculated (and informed members have confirmed) that China is withholding PL15 and other tech (even for the JF-17) unless we buy the J10. If it was just a numbers gap, China could have produced additional JF17s for us.
 

Path-Finder

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Everything that they possess is far superior and advanced to anything in the world.
they have supreme vedick techlology.
I think if you follow the J10 discussions closely you'll see that the possible J10 buy isn't purely for filling a numbers gap, but about filling a capability gap as well. I have speculated (and informed members have confirmed) that China is withholding PL15 and other tech (even for the JF-17) unless we buy the J10. If it was just a numbers gap, China could have produced additional JF17s for us.
J10 can replace Mirages(I hope and pray it does) like JF17 has replaced F7 and lessened the burden on F16's. so its a wise move and its combat debut can be made by PAF so free marketing too!
 

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