• Monday, August 20, 2018

J-31 for Turkish Airforce

Discussion in 'Turkish Defence Forum' started by OguzSenturk, Aug 10, 2018.

  1. OguzSenturk

    OguzSenturk SENIOR MEMBER

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    At some point this will need to be discussed.

    PS: Ignore those retards who will oppose anything come from China. Those retards don't carry any brain in their skulls, and their blind hatred is being fed by empty racism.

    Currently there are two neurotic multi-role stealth fighter jet program on earth;

    • F35
    • J-31

    I don't expect for Trump to resist congress in the name of Turkey, he stands in weak ground also Turkey, in their eyes, doesn't help Trump to strenghten it's ground. So he will probably apply congress' ban of F35 to Turkey at some point.

    "B-but Tf-X ???" Even first flight date isn't clear, some officials say 2026 some say 2023. According to first plans, MMU's serial production factory will start operation after 15 years (if everything goes smooth), that means first few MMU could be added in airforce fleet in 2035 or further. We don't have any luxury to wait MMU for 17+ years without any 5th gen fighter in fleet. Not that MMU is being designed for air-superiority fighter, and force wants stealth multirole platform to replace F-4s.

    Let's check J-31, the Chinese bird in sky, even thought we don't know much about it except it's interrior payload capacity and similar aerodynamic performance with F35.

    [​IMG]

    J-31 is probably 3-4 years behind of F35 in order to slip in low rate production stage. So even if governments agree, we couldn't get first jets tomorrow, but after 4-5 years, and with very low quantities (like 1-2 plane each year). China wouldn't go for regional production facility in Turkey since China's "made in China" policy is so clear.

    [​IMG]

    J-31 had some problems with old Russian engine in past, Chinese authorities talked about that new Chinese engine is being tested. There is a performance flight show video of the fighter jet with old Russian engine;



    Little comparison with F35;

    [​IMG]
     
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  2. khansaheeb

    khansaheeb SENIOR MEMBER

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    J-31 looks like a modified JF17, must have same design team.
     
  3. LKJ86

    LKJ86 SENIOR MEMBER

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    Firstly, it is called FC-31, not J-31.
    Secondly, are you serious?

    JF-17 is from CAC, and FC-31 from SAC.
     
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  4. Akasa

    Akasa SENIOR MEMBER

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    OP conveniently forgot that Turkey is now reliant on both the US and Russia (two diametrically-opposed nations) for critical military equipment (namely the F-16s and S-400s) and that buying Chinese-produced next-gen fighter platforms only serves to convolute Turkey's relations with the United States and NATO. Turkey has already learned how the US might react to a Chinese-sourced purchase from the S-400 ordeal; does Ankara have the gall to risk alienating its most powerful ally to pursue a Chinese fighter? Given Turkey's not-so-pristine reputation following questionable actions in Syria & Iraq, its government might not find sufficient leeway in how the US might perceive an act that further alienates Turkey from its military-industrial relations with Washington. OP also dismisses the reality that interoperability between its F-16s, F-4s, S-400s, and potential FC-31s will be virtually nonexistent in the initial phases and will chronically be a thorn in the TuAF's thumb.

    Now, let's face facts. Even with a pessimistic prediction of a 2025 maiden flight (and an IOC in 2030) for the TF-X, is that so different from purchasing the FC-31, the first of which might fly in a year and with deliveries commencing in 2025? The TF-X option provides TAI engineers a workable and exportable platform of their own intelligent design, or in the very least critical experience in aircraft design & manufacturing. The FC-31 option ties up TuAF funds from what could've been a critical injection of capital into Turkey's domestic military aerospace industry and the personnel & brains behind it.
     
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  5. khansaheeb

    khansaheeb SENIOR MEMBER

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    "Many aircraft manufacturers in China such as Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group or Guizhou Aircraft Industry Co. were founded with help from Shenyang."-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shenyang_Aircraft_Corporation
     
  6. Figaro

    Figaro FULL MEMBER

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    Dude why are you arguing with Chinese members over this point???? CAC, Guizhou, and SAC are all AVIC subsidiaries ... but their programs are completely independent of each other. That's like saying Chevron was founded with the help of Exxon since they were once part of Standard Oil.
    How in the world does the FC-31 bear resemblence to a JF-17?
     
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  7. LKJ86

    LKJ86 SENIOR MEMBER

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  8. OguzSenturk

    OguzSenturk SENIOR MEMBER

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    Well do you see NATO screaming about S-400 purchase? We tried to buy stuff from US and they didn't even sell simple drones, heck they didnt even sell few automatic rifles (nice that because of their secret arms embargo, now we produce our own rifles and drones). NATO understood our stance and agreed with us.

    If we can't get 5th gen multirole fighter from US, there is only J-31 left on the table, NATO will understand that. US? they will get crazy and i would love to see that:lol: . US talks about full blown economic and military embargo on Turkey, don't expect us to think forward US interests. We would rather go for Turkish interests to make US mad.

    China will be happy to remove USA's bridge towards Caucasus and Middleeast as Turkey will be dependent on China in air fleet, just like Russia enjoys ditching US power projection in Turkey by selling S-400s, building Nuclear power plants. (China will also build one nuclear power plant in Turkey's thrace)
     
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  9. dy1022

    dy1022 FULL MEMBER

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    Good point, PLAN will order a lot of J31 in near future, and maybe Saudi already invested 20B on J31 exporting project.

    what's the value for China to team work with Turkey? EJ200 and some western secret techs? the importance of Turkey in geopolitical game?

    Looking forward !
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
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  10. Super Falcon

    Super Falcon ELITE MEMBER

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    Most important fact you have forget why turkey buying F 35

    Turkey needs VTOL Aircrafts fighter jet for its Juan Carlis class Landing mini aircraft

    Turkey main purpose is for this but yes turkish airforce might buy the aircraft
     
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  11. OguzSenturk

    OguzSenturk SENIOR MEMBER

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    We did not order any F35B as of yet, and won't order anything unless US sends first jets into Turkey (they will not send jets into Turkey since Trump will likely approve senate's bill where F35s will be blocked to Turkey)
     
  12. royalharris

    royalharris FULL MEMBER

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    I hope we can help Pakistan on 5th G fighter
    But Pakistan seems have abandoned FC31, pursuit better AZM project
     
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  13. dy1022

    dy1022 FULL MEMBER

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    It's too early for pakistan to have some 5th G fighters.

    Wait and see
     
  14. AlohanAkua

    AlohanAkua FULL MEMBER

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    I'm a fan of fighters in general, so it'd be a shame for anything to possibly cut into TF-X development/budget. The biggest stumbling block for the TF-X imo is Turkish insistence on their own engines. Its completely understandable mind you, the holy grail of every nation w/ aeronautic ambitions, but its made things so difficult. Rolls Royce will never give up their "crown jewels", engine IP, no matter how much Turkey demands it. And real design work can't even start until engine selection.

    Would Turkey be willing to buy off-the-shelf? That way they can get the ball rolling on TF-X, keep their top minds busy and gaining know-how, and in that time slow-burn work on indigenous engines, which can take decades.
     
  15. OguzSenturk

    OguzSenturk SENIOR MEMBER

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    Calm down, we were going for F35 anyway, so F35 money would go to China instead of US. Nothing with MMU (TF-x) will change.