• Sunday, August 18, 2019

J-10C A sole international market for China's J-10 fighter jets is taking shape

Discussion in 'Pakistan Air Force' started by syedjamilhaider, Mar 20, 2019.

  1. zulu

    zulu FULL MEMBER

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    Sir Considering all this what would u suggest ?
     
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  2. Mangus Ortus Novem

    Mangus Ortus Novem SENIOR MEMBER

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    Young Pak friend,

    I would hold steady. I would focus on JF-17 BlkIII. Also, I would focus on selling JF.

    I strongly believe that JF could become Mig-21 of 21st century.

    The recent killing of IAF has done more wonders for JF than all those AirShows.

    Earn money. Invest it in AZM development and then start getting rid off f16 with it.

    So... hold steady. Rafael has its counters... let the PAF professional worry about it.

    Regards,

    Mangus
     
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  3. jupiter2007

    jupiter2007 SENIOR MEMBER

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    He is not setting in the cockpit of J-10C.
    Who told you that Chinese don’t want to sell it? Chinese offered J-10A /FC-20 with price tag of 65?million was offered to Pakistan back in 2013 or before. J-10C is probably close to 75 million.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
  4. zulu

    zulu FULL MEMBER

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    Wish i m that young :) economic front is most imp without it nothing possible and nothing can survive(case in study USSR) finally we start doing something about it hope rest of country also join (some our own created issues ).Project AZM is imp considering future geo political situation.Seems to me new blocks forming so (giving our economic situation too ) our options would be Chinese and Russian and working closely with TUrkey(may be also dragging Malaysia esp giving their advancement in electronics )
     
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  5. maximuswarrior

    maximuswarrior ELITE MEMBER

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    These are two different aircraft. The JF-17 is much cheaper to operate. PAF wants to find the right balance between operation cost and high tech capability. When you have such a large fleet of aircraft and limited resources, you have to find a balance. JF-17 is a perfect mainstay workhorse that makes up the bulk. Relatively cheaper to operate without compromising on high tech capabilities.

    The J-10 is a different animal that has superior operational range. The aircraft has better specs. The Chinese air force is extremely pleased with the performance of this aircraft. The maneuverability is excellent due to the inherent design of the aircraft.

    Having the J-10C is not a luxury. Even if PAF acquired a 5th gen platform the J-10C will continue to play a very vital role.

    We have to look at our enemy which has a very large and diverse fleet of fighters. IAF is not Pakistan centric, but PAF is India centric. Our decisions are largely based on IAF acquisitions. We don’t have major enemies apart from India. India has bigger problems since it has to face multiple enemies.

    The J-10C along with JF-17 and eventually a 5th gen aircraft is the future of PAF. F-16 was the last Western aircraft for PAF.
     
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  6. LKJ86

    LKJ86 ELITE MEMBER

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    510513337f864a84bc6e394503868622.jpg
     
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  7. Gorgin Khan

    Gorgin Khan FULL MEMBER

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    J 10 is very much important for pakistan. I think we should have gone with the deal back then in 2006-10.

    J10C is by far the more advanced version and is comparable to the latest blocks of f16 such as f 16v. It is a direct competitor to eurofighter and Rafale. I think its the right time to go for J10 while we can wait a few more years for j-31 to mature and induct it around 2025-2030.

    Purchasing j10 right now will make Pakistan air force completely unprone to sanctions. Secondly we will have a good 220+ fourth generation advanced fighters in our air force. Which is more than enough to defend our airspace.

    I think we should go for 36-40 J10s at least. First it will ensure commonality of some systems with Jf-17 . Secondly we will have a sizeable numbers of medium weight fighter jet aircraft able to strike deep and carry more weight.
     
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  8. jupiter2007

    jupiter2007 SENIOR MEMBER

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    J-10C is not cheap, 75 million each but it will end up costing 78 million with Chinese high interest rate loan.

    75 million times 40 = 3 billon dollars.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
  9. FuturePAF

    FuturePAF FULL MEMBER

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    Even if the loan is interest free, $75 million is high enough that we need to get near 5th generation capabilities out of a plane of that price. The JF-17 Block III will be or can be developed to nearly Gripen E/NG Levels. Therefore, IF we are to induct the J-10, we need to think bigger. We need the J-10 to give the PAF the qualitative edge. It needs to be the Best 4+++ Generation fighter out there, so that investing in this jet will allow it to hold its own against anything in the IAF inventory for decades to come. It needs to be a design that takes into account what upgrades can be made to any and all 4th generation jets the IAF fields and could field in the decades to come.

    Also, The PAF's procurement budget for fighters for the next 10 years will have to be sunk into a project like this. The Kamra factory will have to be retooled to support it. Induction at 12 planes a year (@ ~$1 billion/year) will allow the PAF to field 7 full squadrons in 10 years time, so that the PAF could then look to induct 5th generation fighters in the following decade.

    In the JF-17 Project, Avionics and the Air Frame were separated from the start, and now side by side the two projects all quick upgrades to happen even if the air frame stays relatively the same. The AESA upgrades are a prime example of this. In the Block III, we will see a new AESA radar, HMS, Modern Comms, Modern Missiles, and possibly an IRST. From the Avionics side we need to see Full Sensor Fusion integrating all of these sensors and Secure and fast datalinks to bring in and send out information gathered. We need a comprehensive EW suite. From the Air Frame and Engines we need as close to all the elements available in a 5th generation fighter; Super-Maneuverability, Super-Cruise, and Finally Stealth (or as close as we can get to it). The design needs to leave room for constant upgrades (hardware and software) and integrated features, and not pod based add-ons.

    While the following is "Fan-Art", It should be seriously considered as an upgraded version of the J-10C Design. The PAF has to make every plane to the best of its design limit, so Leveraging Chengdu's experience with the J-20, and looking at other advanced design studied the PAF can as the Chinese to develop the J-10D. The Tail may also need to be changed to that of the "Pelican Tail" studied for the X-32 and the SAAB FS-2020 Designs. The Design MUST be optimized for Air to Air combat; Hence 4 small missile bays just large enough for 2 BVR missiles and 2 WVR missiles should be considered.

    For more stealth carriage of munitions, enclosed pods can be carried on each wing.

    The weapons bay could be similar to the following:
    [​IMG]


    Stealth Pods:
    [​IMG]

    Next the Tail:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    And Finally; The J-10D Design
    ...


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
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  10. Signalian

    Signalian SENIOR MEMBER

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    This fan art with canards is non-stealthy ^^

    PAF should stick with Project Azm while increasing JF-17's and et second hand F-16's if possible.

    Even if JF-17 didnt score a hit, the media says it does so yeah, the market has potential.

    There are already 176 4th Gen aircraft in an Air Force of around 320 aircrafts, it wouldn't be advisable to spend more money on a new 4th Gen platform, use the money instead for 5th Gen.

    These 176 4th Gen will still increase probably 50 or more.

    Agreed....invest in 5th Gen Azm project to counter IAF 4.5 Gen Rafale

    and why not ? The JF-17 Block -III will be ready by then.
     
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  11. FuturePAF

    FuturePAF FULL MEMBER

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    Which 5th Generation design currently constitutes Project Azm?
     
  12. Signalian

    Signalian SENIOR MEMBER

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    J-31
     
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  13. FuturePAF

    FuturePAF FULL MEMBER

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    Then in that case, I agree, the PAF should ditch Further 4th generation types and should go for the J-31. If the PAF decides it wants the J-10, it will really need to upgrade the design to keep it relevant in the long term, hence the fan art.

    The J-31 Would also serve as a Deterrent, as it "Outclasses" anything in the IAF inventory currently or planned. The J-31 would give even more reason for the PAF to invest in engine rebuilding facilities if it can come to some agreement with the Chinese, as the J-31 and JF-17 can share the same WS-13 Engine variant in the future.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
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  14. Beast

    Beast ELITE MEMBER

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    Weapon is never about look but effective and robust. You can have the best looking weapons system but if it failed to deliver. It is as good as zero.
     
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  15. mingle

    mingle SENIOR MEMBER

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    That what I feel too we can add more new F16s with AESA and current with AESA upgrades r enough to counter rafale rather than going new platform concentrate on blk 3 along with 5th Gen jet. Spot on sir
     
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