J-10 a strategic choice for Bangladesh Air Force

[Joe Shearer]

Yes we have MIG 21 and MIG 29 in hundreds..... this is our strategy to win wars with numbers just like Soviets.....

Imagine Bangladesh goes for costly shiny Typhoons or Super Hornets and we blow them up on the ground itself by swarming their skies with dirt cheap 100s of MIG 21 fish beds....

Really irresponsible statement.

Firstly India is no body to allow us anything . Secondly if even India has any problem , we do not care !

A single PDF member is not in any way representative of the government's policy or even of the sentiment of the man in the street. Please don't over-react.

 

[UKBengali]

I believe BD should not go for F16 or J10C because potential for further development in these platforms is very less. Rather its better for them to evaluate Euro Fighter or Rafale. If they wanna have cheaper option then Su35 may be an option. Or if at all they want to pump a few more bucks then one squadron of F35 would surly create furor in Myanmar.

I think there are likely to be two fighters as per article.

It talks about high-end small number of fighters like Eurofighter and cheaper more numerous lower end fighters like J-10CE.

I think the J-10CE is probably a little late to the show now as it is based on decades old airframe design. Euro-canards also probably are a little late now as well as they will serve till well into the 2050s. However I think BAF may well end up buying 1-2 squadrons of Eurofighters which wont be the end of the world.

In fact I would be more interested in BAF going for refurbished F-16Cs, a lot of which are now available as USAF transitions to F-35. They are cheap to buy(30 million US dollars) and will give around 15 years of useful life and more than capable of handling MAF. If the MAF gets JF-17 Block 3 then I am confident that USAF will release AESA radar and AIM-120D to BAF.

Forget about F-35 and BD may have to wait till 2030 before it gets it's hands on any planes due to the massive backlog. BD would also have to become a US "ally", which in other words a client state, for the US to release this fighter to BD.

Better like I say BD should cast it's eye to the FC-31 which is reported to be available for export from around 2025 onwards. These can slowly be built up in numbers over the next 5-15 years. Even if they are not "cutting-edge' 5th gen fighters, they will be better than any 4th gen fighter out there due to stealth characteristics and Chinese military tech is always catching up with the West.

As regards the replacement of the refurbished F-16Cs, well if the Turks are successful with their 5th gen programme then BAF could also start ordering these in the early 2030s and help build up a dual Turkish/Chinese 5th gen fighter fleet .

BAF's very slow embrace of 4th gen fighters has opened an opportunity to somehow mainly skip the 4th gen-era and focus scarce resources on more numerous 5th gen aircraft.

 

[The Ronin]

They are very potent and effective combat platforms. But you need to build up a support infrastructure that would make these platforms absolutely ruthless. BAF needs to first invest in effective ground controlled radars, AWACS and then create an effective C4I network that allows all these Assets to speak to each other to create a comprehensive picture of the battlefield. You need to be able to look deep inside the enemy territory to muster your own response. In 1967, Israelis decimated 70% of the Egyptian Air Force before it could even take to the skies. Second, you need to invest in platforms that are dedicated for Electronic Warfare. In today's aviation combat, electronic warefare is the name of the game. Third, you would need to invest in hardened shelters to ensure your assets are protected if the enemy decides to launch overwhelming cruise missile strikes on your Airbases. Fourth, BAF would need to engage in massive training of not only its officers but the ground and support crew. That is why i said, it would take decades before BAF can build a force that could muster a credible defence against the IAF.

Overall, BAF would need to invest on force multipliers and build the necessary infrastructure to protect its assets. If you look at the PAF, its combat platforms such as JF17 and F16 are inferior to the SU30MKI, but what levels the playing field are the force multipliers that PAF can field. On Feb 27, it were the force multipliers that won the day for PAF as they injected steroids into the capabilities of the JF17's and F16's.

Well BAF already established ADIZ and buying more modern-advanced radars. HAS already exists in various BAF base, more are under construction in two new bases. AEW&CS is in the plan but won't come before MRCA and now deal signing for MRCA got delayed further due to COVID-19.

I don't think absorbing J-10 will be hard and slow as our pilots are already flying Chinese fighters, training in K-8W for years and 7 more K-8Ws are ready for delivery. As article mentions we already have overhauling facility for Chinese fighters and more maintenance facility for Chinese weapon are under construction.

http://www.newagebd.net/article/22055/baf-initiates-move-to-declare-air-defence-identification-zone
http://www.caab.gov.bd/aip/amd/amdt2019.pdf

They also have POD , weapons and other systems which are not Chinese but made in Pakistan now.

The target pod is Turkish, EW is European, the weapons are mostly Chinese and one American. Which one do you manufacture except the air frames? Please provide credible evidence.

@RangeMaster when @Basel talked about weapons and the link you provided made me think Pakistan is already making most of the weapon for fighter jet. But after reading the thread would it be wrong to say that Pakistan still can't manufacture 95% of aerial munitions such as SRAAM, WVRAAM, BVRAAM, air launched AShM etc?

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/air-weapons-complex-pakistan.542796/

Or if at all they want to pump a few more bucks then one squadron of F35 would surly create furor in Myanmar.

F-35 is impossible. USA haven't sold it to anyone except close allies. Don't

 

[RangeMaster]

@RangeMaster when @Basel talked about weapons and the link you provided made me think Pakistan is already making most of the weapon for fighter jet. But after reading the thread would it be wrong to say that Pakistan still can't manufacture 95% of aerial munitions such as SRAAM, WVRAAM, BVRAAM, air launched AShM etc?

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/air-weapons-complex-pakistan.542796/



F-35 is impossible. USA haven't sold it to anyone except close allies. Don't

Man AAMs are sophisticated weapons. Not many countries are master at it. Just look at this list. Russia, USA, China, France, UK etc and that too with collaboration involving multiple high tech firms. Some are just copying American AAMs. Those who are making AAMs have billions of dollars to spare and a proper R&D base.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air-to-air_missile

However there is a project under Project Azm for in-house development of BVRAAM. And that's a big thing given our economic conditions and R&D base.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistans-own-bvraam-under-project-azm.661130/

 

[dbc]

Well BAF already established ADIZ and buying more modern-advanced radars. HAS already exists in various BAF base, more are under construction in two new bases. AEW&CS is in the plan but won't come before MRCA and now deal signing for MRCA got delayed further due to COVID-19.

I don't think absorbing J-10 will be hard and slow as our pilots are already flying Chinese fighters, training in K-8W for years and 7 more K-8Ws are ready for delivery. As article mentions we already have overhauling facility for Chinese fighters and more maintenance facility for Chinese weapon are under construction.

http://www.newagebd.net/article/22055/baf-initiates-move-to-declare-air-defence-identification-zone
http://www.caab.gov.bd/aip/amd/amdt2019.pdf




@RangeMaster when @Basel talked about weapons and the link you provided made me think Pakistan is already making most of the weapon for fighter jet. But after reading the thread would it be wrong to say that Pakistan still can't manufacture 95% of aerial munitions such as SRAAM, WVRAAM, BVRAAM, air launched AShM etc?

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/air-weapons-complex-pakistan.542796/



F-35 is impossible. USA haven't sold it to anyone except close allies. Don't

I'd stay clear of the J-10, If I had to buy Chinese I'd go for the JF-17. I wrote several paragraphs explaining my point of view but I prefer not to make my thoughts on the subject public.

 

[The Ronin]

I'd stay clear of the J-10, If I had to buy Chinese I'd go for the JF-17. I wrote several paragraphs explaining my point of view but I prefer not to make my thoughts on the subject public.

Nyah!! Not gonna happen because of current Pakistan-BD relationship. If it was possible BAF could've done it 11-12 years ago. As long as SHW is PM, you can forget about it. The only possibility could be getting Chinese FC-1 version. But what's the point of choosing one fighter instead of another which is in service for longer period.

China manufactured 500+ J-10 air frame and Pakistan 140-50 if i am not wrong. Numerous J-10B & C with AESA radar+other upgrade are already in service with PLAAF while first JF-17 Block 3 with AESA radar+ other upgrade still haven't entered service with PAF. Also J-10 can have more hard points to carry weapon than JF-17.

Link to those paragraphs?

 

[dbc]

Link to those paragraphs?

Deleted it, suffice to say I generally I don't like close coupled delta canard designs.With the J-10 I suspect the Chinese aren't finished tinkering with it - alarmingly the tinkering seems ad hoc and disorganized to me. I can't prove it but outside Chinese hands it may be a nightmare to operate.

 

[Avicenna]

Deleted it, suffice to say I generally I don't like close coupled delta canard designs.With the J-10 I suspect the Chinese aren't finished tinkering with it - alarmingly the tinkering seems ad hoc and disorganized to me. I can't prove it but outside Chinese hands it may be a nightmare to operate.

They seem to be happy with it. (i.e. Continued production/evolution)

If JF-17 can be categorized as a "success", I can't imagine J-10 to be any less so.

Though this is based on completely non technical pseudo-circumstantial inference.

J-10 is a logical option for BAF, as it would be able to serve as the backbone as it was designed to replace J-7.

But I think the Rohingya situation altered the politics of the situation.

Difficult to say what path BAF will ultimately take.

But J-10 does represent ONE option.

The other reasonable option (for a workhorse role) would be F-16s from the US, either new build or refurbished. (ideal)

But the key is access to AMRAAM as Myanmar has the SD-10 putting BAF at a distinct disadvantage.

What's interesting is that apparently the French came in to offer Rafale which I didn't expect but leads me to believe there has been serious activity on the part of BAF.

At the very least BAF would have access to MICA if it pays up perhaps opening the way for the US to offer AMRAAM in a potential Viper or Super Hornet deal.

 

[ÇölKaplanı]

BD is not stupid country unlike some others that got sanctioned before.

BAF fighter fleet will be Western/Chinese mix.

BA is buying from West/Turkey/China.

BD thinks decades ahead, be it economy or military and always keeping in mind maximum sovereignty.

Actually, you brothers can become a partner of our projects, both sides can gain a lot from it. And the price isn't important since we care about strategic partnerships more than money nowadays... Or at least demand local production from China...

 

[Bilal9]

Deleted it, suffice to say I generally I don't like close coupled delta canard designs.With the J-10 I suspect the Chinese aren't finished tinkering with it - alarmingly the tinkering seems ad hoc and disorganized to me. I can't prove it but outside Chinese hands it may be a nightmare to operate.

Well the Indians are going into developing their LCA Tejas II along that same line, adding a canard like the J-10.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/hal-...ssions-thread-2.351401/page-268#post-12274593

And gripen has the same type like the J-10.

What in your mind are the issues?

 

[dbc]

We have Mirage Vs and JF 17s in Maritime Role

against a twin engine aircraft at sea the Mirage and JF-17 is at a severe disadvantage A single engine platform does not have the payload, range or survivability of a twin engine combat aircraft like F/A-18 E/F or F-15 or Sukhoi and Rafale.
Please don't say but F-35 ... F-35 has a monster engine

 

[dbc]

Well the Indians are going into developing their LCA Tejas II along that same line, adding a canard like the J-10.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/hal-...ssions-thread-2.351401/page-268#post-12274593

And gripen has the same type like the J-10.

What in your mind are the issues?

Mainly close coupled layout is very sensitive to CG (center of gravity). You have to fly one to realize that the FCS will not permit certain maneuvers under certain load configurations.
For instance I have never seen a CC design execute a square loop without rolling inverted even in the controlled settings of an flight display. The issues are minor when you rule out unguided munitions and close in combat.

But I'm not convinced we have seen the end of unguided munitions and close combat.
Plus the nose of such designs is very twitchy makes for harrowing IFR and rough weather landing or combat conditions that require delicate nose pointing.

Mainly USAF build their aircraft for their worse pilots while others build their machines for their best. Nothing wrong with either approach its just a different philosophy.
It is a lesson we carried from WWII when we lost many of our best pilots in the initial months and had to quickly fill the ranks with inexperienced pilots.

 

[nahtanbob]

I think the J-10 is a little late to the show now.
It would have made sense 5 years ago but no longer.

2 squadrons of Eurofighter makes sense to face off MAF but buying six squadrons of J-10s to deter India is not sensible as it is already 2020, and the Chinese look like they will have their 5th gen J-31 ready for export by the middle part of this decade.

Buy a 4+ gen fighter from West and a 5th gen one from China for the 2020s I say.

Given the tiny size of Bangladesh I doubt Bangladesh air force can protect their aircraft from a pre-emptive strike. Seriously there is nothing to deter
Having said that I would purchase 1-2 squadrons of 4+ gen fighter. This is just to give air force some experience.

 

[Michael Corleone]

Given the tiny size of Bangladesh I doubt Bangladesh air force can protect their aircraft from a pre-emptive strike. Seriously there is nothing to deter
Having said that I would purchase 1-2 squadrons of 4+ gen fighter. This is just to give air force some experience.

ADIZ ftw

 

[Destranator]

Given the tiny size of Bangladesh I doubt Bangladesh air force can protect their aircraft from a pre-emptive strike. Seriously there is nothing to deter
Having said that I would purchase 1-2 squadrons of 4+ gen fighter. This is just to give air force some experience.

When Bangladesh can afford it we should look into stationing aircraft in overseas air bases much like the US and Singapore.

However, the main deterrents against pre-emptive strikes from India or Burma would be multiple redundancies in long range artillery assets, BMs and CMs.