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Italy delivering surplus self-propelled howitzers to Pakistan Army

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PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
Aug 18, 2015
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Like have you researched? I did with Wikipedia and we were lacking both in quality and quantity
Quality is not always the features in specs, its the way a weapon is utilised in combat and produces results. Quantity is important in a few ways, especially when there are enough guns to support all troops, which Pakistan has in good numbers to cover both infantry and armor, while India clearly lacks in armored warfare. Pakistan has good numbers of SPGs to cover all armored formations be it division or brigade level. Pakistan infantry formations are lesser than Indian infantry formations, so supporting artillery guns will also be lesser in number.

Deployment terrains are different, at some places its difficult to place 155 mm towed guns, while at some places mortars do the job easily due to better elevation angles. Some targets require heavy calibre weapon to take out in one or two shots where 203 mm will be used. Some 122mm artillery guns are easily traversed 360 deg without re-deployment even. 105 mm deployed in and around siachen area are useful and their ammunition is lighter so logistics is easier. So different calibres have advantages and constraints.

Artillery guns are not always numbers, range of projectile etc but they are also about strategic deployment, elevation angles, logistics of both guns and ammunition etc. These factors are overlooked when artillery is discussed. Effective and accurate fire by 6 guns is also useful than having 18 guns constantly pounding the same area and expending 3 times more ammunition.
 

Mumm-Ra

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Quality is not always the features in specs, its the way a weapon is utilised in combat and produces results. Quantity is important in a few ways, especially when there are enough guns to support all troops, which Pakistan has in good numbers to cover both infantry and armor, while India clearly lacks in armored warfare. Pakistan has good numbers of SPGs to cover all armored formations be it division or brigade level. Pakistan infantry formations are lesser than Indian infantry formations, so supporting artillery guns will also be lesser in number.

Deployment terrains are different, at some places its difficult to place 155 mm towed guns, while at some places mortars do the job easily due to better elevation angles. Some targets require heavy calibre weapon to take out in one or two shots where 203 mm will be used. Some 122mm artillery guns are easily traversed 360 deg without re-deployment even. 105 mm deployed in and around siachen area are useful and their ammunition is lighter so logistics is easier. So different calibres have advantages and constraints.

Artillery guns are not always numbers, range of projectile etc but they are also about strategic deployment, elevation angles, logistics of both guns and ammunition etc. These factors are overlooked when artillery is discussed. Effective and accurate fire by 6 guns is also useful than having 18 guns constantly pounding the same area and expending 3 times more ammunition.
Good to see you back. You were sorely missed on the forum
 

HRK

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Sep 24, 2010
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As per 2018 report of Senate of Italy following is the Amount of Authorised Arms sales to Pakistan for the period of 2013-2018

Italian Amrs to sales to Pakistan 2013-2018.jpg

[Link]

As far as we know agreement for M-109L was concluded in the year 2015 and all the transfers were completed till Jan-2019 while the transfers were started in the year 2017 so the approval for M-109L by Italian Authorities must be granted either in 2015 or in 2016.
 

Path-Finder

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Feb 7, 2013
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As per 2018 report of Senate of Italy following is the Amount of Authorised Arms sales to Pakistan for the period of 2013-2018

View attachment 673423
[Link]

As far as we know agreement for M-109L was concluded in the year 2015 and all the transfers were completed till Jan-2019 while the transfers were started in the year 2017 so the approval for M-109L by Italian Authorities must be granted either in 2015 or in 2016.
Do we know the number of guns received?
 

Vapour

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Quality is not always the features in specs, its the way a weapon is utilised in combat and produces results. Quantity is important in a few ways, especially when there are enough guns to support all troops, which Pakistan has in good numbers to cover both infantry and armor, while India clearly lacks in armored warfare. Pakistan has good numbers of SPGs to cover all armored formations be it division or brigade level. Pakistan infantry formations are lesser than Indian infantry formations, so supporting artillery guns will also be lesser in number.

Deployment terrains are different, at some places its difficult to place 155 mm towed guns, while at some places mortars do the job easily due to better elevation angles. Some targets require heavy calibre weapon to take out in one or two shots where 203 mm will be used. Some 122mm artillery guns are easily traversed 360 deg without re-deployment even. 105 mm deployed in and around siachen area are useful and their ammunition is lighter so logistics is easier. So different calibres have advantages and constraints.

Artillery guns are not always numbers, range of projectile etc but they are also about strategic deployment, elevation angles, logistics of both guns and ammunition etc. These factors are overlooked when artillery is discussed. Effective and accurate fire by 6 guns is also useful than having 18 guns constantly pounding the same area and expending 3 times more ammunition.
What about more focus towards LOC-related procurements? Seems like IA has drawn ahead with towed artillery, through imports and "indigenous" production.
 

HRK

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Sep 24, 2010
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So PA already had 150 of these. Which mean 150 + 122 = 272 Total??
150+115+122= 387

additionally 41 M-109A2 were acquired from Canada their Operational status is unknown, therefore our M-109 inventory could be 380 at minimum or upto +420 IF Canadian M-109 SPH are also made operational
 

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