• Thursday, December 13, 2018

Israeli technology effectively disable drones during G20

Discussion in 'Air Warfare' started by DavidSling, Dec 5, 2018.

  1. DavidSling

    DavidSling SENIOR MEMBER

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    Several suspicious drones flying into the presence of global leaders were successfully blocked by Israeli technology hired by Argentina.

    JTA, 05/12/18 15:48
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    [​IMG]
    Federal Police motorcycle with G20 logo
    Reuters
    Israeli technology hired by Argentina to provide security during the G20 global leaders’ summit successfully prevented several unauthorized drone incidents.

    Despite previous fears, the participation of leaders from Australia, Brazil, Canada, China, the European Union, France, Germany, India, Indonesia, Italy, Japan, Mexico, Russia, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, South Korea, Turkey, the United Kingdom and the United States wasn’t affected.

    Several suspicious drones flying into the presence of global leaders were successfully blocked by the Israeli technology.

    The Defense Ministry of Argentina signed a contract worth more than $5 million with its Israeli counterpart last year to provide cyber defense and cybersecurity services to the meeting. Israel is not a member of the G20 group.

    On Thursday, summit authorities detected a non-authorized drone in an area of the hotels in which the foreign delegations stayed. The drone was neutralized.

    On Friday evening a drone flew close to the group of leaders that were entering the iconic Colon Theatre for a gala event. The drone was neutralized and fell to the street, according a report by the Clarin newspaper.

    The signed contract was for the implementation of a Cyber Defense Informatics Emergency Response Team (CERT) and a Computer Security Incident Response Team (CSIRT).

    On Sept. 21, the countries signed the Implementation Agreement for the project. The cyber defense program includes the capability to inhibit drones to a certain range. The cybersecurity software includes the ability to collect and analyze information from social networks.

    The Drone Guard system sold to Argentina by ELTA Systems, a subsidiary of Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI), also was successfully used during the 2018 Youth Olympics games in Argentina in October.

    The 13th meeting of the international forum of 20 countries held in Buenos Aires last weekend was the first G20 summit to be hosted in South America. Security was one of the main concerns. On Monday, President Mauricio Macri organized an event to recognize the success of the event with the workers, including security forces, in recognition of their performance.

    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/255750
     
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  2. khansaheeb

    khansaheeb SENIOR MEMBER

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    What's so hard about blocking drone radio control signals? What a bunch of losers gloating about such simple electronics.
     
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  3. serenity

    serenity FULL MEMBER

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    Iran hacking into a US military drone and landing it inside their territory for examination is a show of their skill. This is blocking signal from probably just civilian drones operated by citizens. Maybe some have bad intention but that's just someone's suspicions.
     
  4. LeGenD

    LeGenD SENIOR MEMBER

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    If military-purpose drones could be brought down via hacking measures then drones are obsolete. These fairytales have so many loopholes. Point is that drones are machines and can malfunction during the course of a mission. An Iranian eye-witness account of RQ-170 was silenced by Iranian government because it did not conform to Iranian state propaganda (but Google revords everything). When the time is right, US will disclose what happened.

    RQ-180, Global Hawk and X-37B are the most capable unmanned surveillance assets in American inventory, and these never fail to impress. Their are faint hints that RQ-180 have penetrated even the most well-guarded of airspaces around the world without incident since 2014; what it looks like and what features it pack are virtually unkown to this day. One photo leaked recently but it is hazy (details cannot be established but this thing is huge).

    RQ-170 have also considerably evolved as a platform since 2011.
     
  5. serenity

    serenity FULL MEMBER

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    Maybe the Iranian story is fairytale but American hints that RQ-180 have penetrated some airspace is also fairytale. Not much more reason to believe one over the other. One thing is for sure. Iranians have taken a RQ-170 intact. This gives their story a possibility window. The story about RQ-180 is interesting. Do you know which well guarded airspaces? This keeps up their image of God-like power. They are not. They are no more smarter and better than any human. Surely getting best brains around the world and having so much wealth helps their position but this is also spinning fairytale about Americans being untouchable. Next thing people will believe in wonder weapons the USA already has like TR-3B UFO, Invisible bomber, intergalactic space fleets that can time travel and go faster than light. It opens the door up. In reality, they are just well ahead of the rest in almost every field but the distance is possible to close.

    We can say this. USA testing RQ-180 by waging war which is flying into another country's territory with military asset is illegal and can start a war against a "well defended airspace" meaning it is a strong country. I don't think USA is that reckless to gamble and behave this way. They can test it as well in many other ways without going inside territory. This makes the story seem more unlikely and more likely to be those stories like USA has UFO and can go into space. Made up by guys who worship USA like it is untouchable in technology. It may be ahead but not THAT much ahead. and definitely not that risky. If they were detected, they risk all the reputation and can never complain about another country misbehaving again. So I don't think this is true. But who knows. I like to think Iranians were able to do this because drones don't malfunction and then land perfectly in enemy territory intact. They either crash land or self-destruct.
     
  6. LeGenD

    LeGenD SENIOR MEMBER

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    Friend,

    I am not asserting that US have god-like powers or something on these lines. This would be an unrealistic stance to take, on my part, and for any other individual. Nevertheless, take a look at their investment levels in R&D programs in relation to commercial-purpose applications as well as defense applications, and what they are able to develop and field in comparison to other countries from time-to-time.

    [1] http://uis.unesco.org/apps/visualisations/research-and-development-spending/
    [2] https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallm...-members-visualized-infographic/#6b9524e14cff

    Put [1] and [2] in the perspective, and do some brainstorming. Majority of countries are not even close, and therefore, not in the position to find ways to undermine security arrangements of China and/or Russia. But US can deliver where others fall short (just read some declassified accounts; you will find plenty on the web if you have decent searching/scholarly skills).

    ---

    An RQ-170 variant crash-landed in eastern Iran in 2011 (suffered some structural damage in the process). Here is an account of an Iranian physician which escaped attention of many [taken down under pressure from Iranian authorities] but unmasked via Google cashing: https://theaviationist.com/2011/12/19/simple-solution/

    There are numerous loopholes in the state-sponsored Iranian account of RQ-170 related incident. In order to understand/uncover these loopholes, you need to understand the difference between commercial GPS and military GPS, security measures for military GPS, composition of American military-purpose drones, and principles of Electronic Warfare - substantial amount of homework [I admit].

    Read the most upvoted response in here: https://www.quora.com/Are-military-drones-affected-by-jamming

    Very telling. In order to jam/spoof an American military-purpose drone, you need a capable aerial EW platform (possible), and knowledge of its flightpath (situational awareness factor). This is assuming that it is visible on your radar systems [and] you can overcome its anti-jamming measures with your EW capabilities. Much convenient to shoot one down [I tell you].

    RQ-170 variants are LO by design, and can evade numerous radar systems consequently. Potential operators are also expected to be LEARNED in the art of surveillance (studying the defenses of a region under surveillance and how to breach them). The variant which fell into the hands of Iran in 2011 was deployed in Afghanistan way back in 2007 for 'surveillance missions' across Afghanistan, Iran and Pakistan respectively (the Beast of Kandahar), and fulfilled the expectations of its operators in a span of 4 straight years; this indicate that it had a high penetration rate.

    HOWEVER:-

    GPS-based communication and/or navigation failures can manifest in virtually any UAV, at any given time, during the course of an operation (they are machines after all, and fallible). Here is an example: https://www.syracuse.com/news/index...one_crash_in_lake_ontario_air_force_says.html

    "The report says the drone had been properly maintained and inspected prior to its flight, but there were multiple failures with its GPS and a navigation system after about two hours of flight. While the drone's ground-based air crew tried to return the Reaper to base, the drone lost its connectivity with them and switched to autopilot to return to base on its own on a path that avoids populated areas and potential obstructions, the report said."

    Iran was lucky in the sense that the RQ-170 variant crash-landed in a location where surface was soft, and the UAV did not suffer major damage. Possibility of malfunction cannot be ruled out.

    I am not asserting that Iranian security measures are useless; they are potent [in the right context], but US have vastly superior military capabilities, and its surveillance apparatus is vast and advanced enough to breach security measures of any country to extract valuable information at any given point in time (and this is a non-stop endeavor). Loss of an RQ-170 variant over Iran, was inconsequential to them, to the extent, that they did not even bother to take it out.

    The first RQ-180 variant became operational in 2015, and it a cutting-edge UAV in virtually any aspect. It is VLO on the level of B-2 Spirit [or close], and this is why it is capable of penetrating any environment virtually unopposed.

    Learn about B-2 Spirit from here: https://www.wearethemighty.com/gear-tech/how-b2-stealth-bomber-works

    To this day, military experts have not managed to put together a radar system which can secure a lock on B-2 Spirit even when it is flying right above one [open admission from engineers of various companies]. And it is excellent in suppressing even EO/IR sensor systems [lesser known capabilities]. In fact, we have a member here on PG who pointed out [once] that a B-2 Spirit bomber forced electronic systems to shutdown in a region where he was present at the time as it passed through [I was not aware until his disclosure].

    USAF intend to replace B-2 Spirit bombers with B-21 Raider bombers in the near future which will be even more cutting-edge and less maintenance-intensive in single package.

    Here is a snapshot of a suspected RQ-180 variant from 10 KM distance [recent]:

    [​IMG]

    Source: https://theaviationist.com/2018/08/...e-b-21-raider-the-rq-180-drone-or-just-a-b-2/

    To this day, its design is not clear to anybody in the public domain, and its missions are absolutely classified as well. This is understandable in this age of so many prying eyes. But it have a structure similar to B-2 Spirit, and is huge in size [suitable for long-range and demanding surveillance missions].

    "This aircraft’s design is key for the shift of Air Force ISR assets away from “permissive” environments—such as Iraq and Afghanistan, where Northrop Grumman’s non-stealthy Global Hawk and General Atomics’ Reaper operate—and toward operations in “contested” or “denied” airspace. The new UAS underpins the Air Force’s determination to retire a version of the RQ-4B Global Hawk after 2014, despite congressional resistance. The RQ-180 eclipses the smaller, less stealthy and shorter-range RQ-170 Sentinel." - Amy Butler and Bill Sweetman

    Notice the word "eclipses" in there? RQ-180 is so far ahead of RQ-170 variants in capabilities that it is an entirely different class of UAV in comparison.

    Just because US is not telling much about operations of RQ-180; does not imply that its accomplishments are a bunch of fairytales. There are pointers to a certain extent from insiders, but not much in terms of information.

    There are certain things in the realm of military capabilities that are not known to the public even in the face of so much publicity in current times. Informed members will tell you that certain stuff become known to the public after like a decade in use, and certain stuff is kept under wraps for decades. Expect surprises from US anytime.

    I believe that a number of countries do not disclose much to the public in regards to their military capabilities, but then what is the purpose of fielding such a humongous and expensive surveillance apparatus with legs across land, sea, air, and space [American]? Relevant American sources want to know, what public does not know and understand, and they glean much.

    The true extent of American military capabilities are not what we saw in regional conflicts such as Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya since 2001. These are politically-motivated and business-oriented campaigns. Should they decide to vaporize a country, they can do so on a moment's notice. I understand this much.

    Russia and China are the only two countries with sufficient firepower to lay waste to scores of American cities on the other hand. This is why US is quietly moving in the direction of spacefaring military defenses.
     
  7. serenity

    serenity FULL MEMBER

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    Thanks for the detailed post. I agree that maybe it is just propaganda machine creating this rumor like the Iranian stealth fighter in past. But we know they hold onto relatively intact version of that American drone. Maybe it did crash land on soft soil who really knows. EW technology is very well hidden stuff and Americans hide their true capability like the Chinese and Russians do. Israel jamming drones may just be some civilian ones operated by terrorists to cause harm, or maybe just innocent people with cameras attached. Israeli technology is right at the top anyway so I'm not insulting them at all.

    RQ-180 may be able to fly around Russia and China without even being spotted but I don't think USA want to test it because they have nothing to make from risky gamble like this. If Russian and Chinese detect it, they may choose to complain for many years. If USA wants to test capability of their UAV and enemy radars, they may be able to fly around the coast and just into airspace, when they do military exercises nearby and test Russia/China's reaction. Flying right inside territory I don't think is something USA government will allow their military leaders to do. Maybe just around borders in conflict regions to test reactions first. If no reaction, good evidence to prove the effectiveness of that stealth.