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Is Pakistan the only odd one remaining in the region when it comes to system of governance?

Neurath

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Right wing in this region mean religious extremists. The likes of Indian RSS, Iraian mullahs and now Talibans.

Now you go through the power brokers in Pakistan, and tell me do you find anything comparable here in relation to Pakistan's neighbours?
So you want us to be the region's definition of right wing?
 

VCheng

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It's the Pakistani state institutions which needs to step up, perhaps via judiciary to auto correct the path Pakistan unfortunately took right after its independence. Deep state/establishment must also play its role.

As I said, Pakistani state unfortunately got hijacked by liberal leftist elites and let the country veer off from the building blocks of the state.

Has it occurred to you that perhaps the Pakistani institutions have carved out a very delicate balance by design, by keeping the fears of a right wing takeover alive, but then ensuring that they are seen as the final bulwark against such a takeover, just to keep the gravy train going?
 

Meengla

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Liberals are not mental slaves of Western Civilization as you would put it. I don't care if PPP, PMLN or MQM call themselves 'liberals'. ISIS calls itself Muslims but are they really representative of Islam? Liberalism is all about respecting others' opinons, promoting democracy, individual rights and civil liberties. It was never about sub-nationalism as you would put it.

Pakistan can follow its own system, culture and identity. Liberalism doesn't state anything antithetical to that, does it? All it asks for is that minorities and all sections of the population be respected and granted rights in this Pakistan's own system that you propose. IK isn't right wing by the way.

Again, you fail to answer my question, what is the liberal aspect in Pakistan that you want to remove. You continue to talk about every other country being right wing, me being naive and isolation and what not. Again, the only thing non-liberal about our neighbours is that they've forgotten entirely about minorities and the only somewhat liberal aspect about Pakistan is that we do our best to respect minorities, although not in the most perfect manner. There are no liberal powers in Pakistan, you have Mullahs who want to take you back to the stone ages, ethno-nationalists that want this country broken into pieces, actual liberals who are painted through the ethno-nationalist brush by religious extemists because they can't tolerate minority rights, the larger moderate population that most people are from 'live and let live' and then a Centrist in power who keeps all of this in balance with the support of the establishment.
Nailed it. Such a fake narrative being promoted constantly on PDF about Pakistani 'liberals' doing this or that!
And it is sad that some people had to resort to the likes of TLP to say that having a Sufi-oriented Islamic Pakistan is not good. TLP is an extreme fringe and resorts to terrorism!
 

Taimoor Khan

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the power brokers in Pakistan are least reflective of the masses
Exactly, Pakistan is in complete control of liberal leftist elite, on the opposite, you see in its neighbour, India, Iran and Afghanistan, every aspect of their statehood is under the firm control of right wingers.
 

Taimoor Khan

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Liberals are not mental slaves of Western Civilization as you would put it. I don't care if PPP, PMLN or MQM call themselves 'liberals'. ISIS calls itself Muslims but are they really representative of Islam? Liberalism is all about respecting others' opinons, promoting democracy, individual rights and civil liberties. It was never about sub-nationalism as you would put it.

Pakistan can follow its own system, culture and identity. Liberalism doesn't state anything antithetical to that, does it? All it asks for is that minorities and all sections of the population be respected and granted rights in this Pakistan's own system that you propose. IK isn't right wing by the way.

Again, you fail to answer my question, what is the liberal aspect in Pakistan that you want to remove. You continue to talk about every other country being right wing, me being naive and isolation and what not. Again, the only thing non-liberal about our neighbours is that they've forgotten entirely about minorities and the only somewhat liberal aspect about Pakistan is that we do our best to respect minorities, although not in the most perfect manner. There are no liberal powers in Pakistan, you have Mullahs who want to take you back to the stone ages, ethno-nationalists that want this country broken into pieces, actual liberals who are painted through the ethno-nationalist brush by religious extemists because they can't tolerate minority rights, the larger moderate population that most people are from 'live and let live' and then a Centrist in power who keeps all of this in balance with the support of the establishment.
In Pakistani perspective, absolutely, liberals are the biggest touts of western ways, culture and civilization. The "brown sahab" syndrome. If you dont agree, you are perhaps living in a parallel universe.

ISIS for me and you doesn't represent Islam but the rest of world do not share our views and they are associated with Islam. So if the entrenched political parties of Pakistan are marketing themselves are "liberal", you have to take them as what they say. You cant have your cake and eat it. And then you have army of "pseudo intellectuals" (e.g Hoodboy and his kind), the NGO, the aunties, all having the issues with the state itself. Liberal garbage I would say. You know what common in these lot, they all peddle the narratives of foreign nations. Call them fifth column if you like.

Whoever identify itself as liberal and happen to be a known figure in Pakistan, is opposed to the basic fact that bedrock of Pakistani state is Islam. Put it this way, for Pakistan to auto correct itself and come back to its original purpose, liberal forces who oppose it, must be neutralised from the power corridors. They can do all their intellectual gymnastics are lower levels, for all we care.


Minorities are tiny percentage of Pakistani population, do you have no concern about the majority and their wishes? There was a survey recently done and majority wants to be ruled under Sharia. A right wing, Pakistani state modelled under the framework of state of Madina, it is given, that it will uphold the rights of the minorities and their well being, a lot more then what we currently see. Not sure where your concerns are coming from regarding minorities.
Now one can Stop from imagining... How many religious roits happens in Gujarat after Godara...
You just had your pogrom in your capital when you invited POTUS. Short memory?
So you want us to be the region's definition of right wing?
Obviously not, not on the "regional" model we see, but we can no longer have liberal leftist elite running the affairs of Pakistan while all around you is right wing ideologies.
 

Taimoor Khan

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Has it occurred to you that perhaps the Pakistani institutions have carved out a very delicate balance by design, by keeping the fears of a right wing takeover alive, but then ensuring that they are seen as the final bulwark against such a takeover, just to keep the gravy train going?
Not institutions, rather individuals. And you know what, they all happen to be liberal leftist elite. Goes to show how morally repugnant these lot are, this narrative is nothing but a deceleration of war against own people.
 

VCheng

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Not institutions, rather individuals. And you know what, they all happen to be liberal leftist elite. Goes to show how morally repugnant these lot are, this narrative is nothing but a deceleration of war against own people.
So if it is just a matter of some individuals, then, as you say:

for Pakistan to auto correct itself and come back to its original purpose, liberal forces who oppose it, must be neutralised from the power corridors.
... neutralizing them should not be too big of a problem. What is stopping such a purge to happen even now when the same page setup holds power?
 

Taimoor Khan

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So if it is just a matter of some individuals, then, as you say:



... neutralizing them should not be too big of a problem. What is stopping such a purge to happen even now when the same page setup holds power?
You actually brought a very good point about this bogey of "right wing" take over in Pakistan. As I said, it goes to show how morally corrupt these liberal elites are, degrading their own people , as if they are at war with Pakistan own citizens. Right wing take over is of no concern to anyone outside, i mean Indian nukes are firmly in the hands of Hindu fanatics and lunatics, no one lift a finger.

The "purge" did happen right after the 9/11 and many who considered to be "right wingers", with beards, were literally purged. I happen to know few, in my personal capacity. So you see, an event was used to further liberal left agenda in Pakistan two decades ago, what I am pointing out that now when Pakistan is surrounded by right wing ideologies, Pakistan should take this opportunity to remodel itself and be inline with these new realities.
 

Wood

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Declaring India as a right wing country is nothing more than libel.

India is socially conservative and economically liberal. India used to be more economically leftist than it is now, but that is slowly changing.
 

VCheng

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now when Pakistan is surrounded by right wing ideologies, Pakistan should take this opportunity to remodel itself and be inline with these new realities.
Good point, after all nothing is stopping the present setup from doing this immediately. Why the hesitation, I wonder?
 

Taimoor Khan

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Good point, after all nothing is stopping the present setup from doing this immediately. Why the hesitation, I wonder?
The liberal elite hold in power corridors of Pakistan. A tiny minority. As you mentioned, the selling of idea where Pakistan will be taken over by right wing, and the gravy associated with it.

The purpose of this thread is to give different perspective of the regional situation which I dont think many have fully understood, and how Pakistan should evolve from here on.
 

VCheng

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The liberal elite hold in power corridors of Pakistan. A tiny minority. As you mentioned, the selling of idea where Pakistan will be taken over by right wing, and the gravy associated with it.

The purpose of this thread is to give different perspective of the regional situation which I dont think many have fully understood, and how Pakistan should evolve from here on.
If this liberal elite are truly a minority, then the majority right wingers should have no problem getting their wishes implemented. I would support such a takeover, if so, indeed.
 

Taimoor Khan

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If this liberal elite are truly a minority, then the majority right wingers should have no problem getting their wishes implemented. I would support such a takeover, if so, indeed.
Take over doesnt necessarily have to be a physical one. We have seen how liberal left agenda in the name of "enlighten moderation" was imposed. In this day and age of social media, a new narrative can be introduced, inline with the regional realities.
 

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