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Is Indian Aircraft Carrier a Big Threat for Pakistan Navy?

Indus Pakistan

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Honestly, I am content with things being that way.

There is no need for oodles of people (many who never wanted such a war anyway) to die and leave critical (underlying matters of the heart and soul) things unsettled (and likely made even worse) long term anyway.

I'd like for both sides to grow and develop economically and fast as possible....and become mature capable countries and reasonable neighbours to each other long term. That is how you put good floorboards of peace, security and genuine progress for millions of people living badly in the subcontinent right now.
Entirely agree with you. No more war please. Yeh sure we will have rivalry. But focus that on economics, development etc.The biggest enemy of the people of both sides is poverty and under development. Can you imagine South Asia a economic power house like East Asia?

That would garner us all respect across the globe. Not tanks, ships or missiles mostly purcased from abroad. It's soi childish actually.
 

Wood

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But what are the actual numbers today?

Rather than "its always going to be like 65, 71"
You mean reserves? Wiki says that India got a little less than 10 days. I'll expect OPEC to stop fuel supply to India in case of a full war with Pakistan :undecided:
 

Wood

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That assumes that India just lets its civilian economy operate "as is".....consuming energy like a war has not commenced.

Wont be the case, it will go into "war mode"....the govt will employ emergency action plan etc.

It is more instructive to look at total size of Indian oil strategic reserves (plus what it seizes from KSA, UAE et al that have put some of their strategic reserves into India too), and divide it by expected war consumption of the military to get a better actual figure.

War consumption will not be anything close to civilian consumption....many things will get rationed to civilians and prioritised to the military. The actual ratio of what will be done, depends on the nature of the conflict that unfolds.

Then contend with how say more open sea lanes (by way of Indian navy operation) for India stacks up with say Pakistan if you want to analyse past that.

Then the final figure by doing the same overall math for Pakistan's case (i.e what is its total strategic oil reserves as an amount)...and divide that by expected war consumption per day.

There are ways to infer the overall effect though without trying to find these numbers, as you can account for Pakistan's military being half, third, quarter or whatever overall power level you choose w.r.t India (i.e something bulked up much more on their end compared to their population ratio and reserves/savings ratios).

These are similar things that affect India in same way when comparing to China....and similarly a lot of that is dulled by the topographic and relevant logistic networks (that Pakistan enjoys relative to India) that India enjoys relative to China in the relevant theatre zones (given what Tibet presents as obstacle for China regarding this in bringing its force levels to bear).

Why you expect OPEC to "stop fuel supply" when critical members of it store and plan to store some large portion of their strategic reserves in India (knowing fully well India would requisition those during wartime) is something you would need to expand upon if you choose. I don't share that opinion.
Any idea about how OPEC behaved during earlier India Pakistan conflicts? I just expect them to side with Pakistan for religious reasons. Nothing beyond that.
 

Mahmood-ur-Rehman

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The possession of an aircraft carrier is of significant value for any navy. The idea behind the development of an aircraft carrier is to project power at a long distance in peacetime and achieve air dominance at sea during a war. It restricts the adversary warships outside of a designated area, acts as a coercive tool, protects interests at sea, and exercises influence over an area. All major powers having interests outside of their territories have developed them, especially after World War II when the potential of carriers to strike targets accurately at a long-distance using aircraft was effectively demonstrated. India operates one aircraft carrier; another is under sea trials, and the third one is planned. The possession of these carriers lifts India as a major power in the Indian Ocean Region. However, the possession of carriers may have more utility during peacetime than a full-fledged war due to the growing effectiveness and success of anti-ship capabilities.

Indian Maritime Doctrine and Aircraft Carriers

Indian Maritime Doctrine outlines a large area as an area of interest for the Indian Navy to strengthen its position as a blue water force capable of operating and projecting power beyond its home waters. The doctrine enlists primary, secondary, and “other areas” as areas of interest based on the location of the Indian Diaspora and overseas investments vital for the Indian Navy. It also enlists various enabling concepts to protect interests in these areas like “sea control” and “sea denial.”


The backbone of a blue water navy is the aircraft carrier and the Indian Navy plans to possess three aircraft carriers in total, giving it the flexibility to have two operational carriers all the times. INS Vikramaditya aircraft carrier with a displacement of 45,000 tons is the current operational carrier of India. The under-trial carrier is domestically built INS Vikrant and is slated to be commissioned early next year. The construction of follow-on to Vikrant is being debated in India due to the questions on the utility of aircraft carriers in comparison to submarines. It has not been approved by the Indian Government yet. Indian Navy operates two squadrons of MiG 29K carrier-borne multi-role aircraft inducted in 2010. Various operational problems have been observed in the aircraft like engine, airframe, and fly-by-wire system.

Limitations of Indian Aircraft Carriers

While the anti-ship capabilities are becoming common, more advanced, and precise, Indian carriers are not among the most advanced in the world. There are also certain limitations of the Indian carriers to operate and effectively project power against Pakistan. Firstly, Indian carriers have limited displacement and can carry up to 36 mixes of aircraft. The limited displacement also means reduced fuel load and an operational range of aircraft, forcing it to operate near the adversary. Displacement capacity also impacts the weapons load on the aircraft. Secondly, the aircraft on the carriers are allocated defensive and offensive roles. Increasing numbers for one role can have catastrophic implications for the other. Thirdly, take-off and landing on the carrier are totally different from ground-based landing and take-off. Indian carriers use Short Take-off But Assisted Recovery (STOBAR) take-off and landing system, which has a slower take-off rate than the more advanced Catapult Assisted Take-off But Arrested Recovery (CATOBAR) system.

Carriers are Strategic Assets

The aircraft are costly affairs. Development and operational costs make a carrier a valuable asset for any navy. India acquired Vikramaditya along with 45 MiG-29K aircraft and additional modifications with the overall price ranging between $6 billion and $7 billion. The total price of the second carrier Vikrant with 36 aircraft, is likely to be $10–11 billion. At the same time, the cost of a third carrier will likely be $16–17 billion. The price factor alone makes them a strategic weapon that determines the deployment of the carrier during a war. The carrier, during peacetime, performs the power projection role when there is no threat to them. However, their deployment during the war becomes a tricky decision. It is unlikely that India will deploy them at the initial stages of a war with Pakistan. Although they are protected with a layer of defensive systems, their sinking at this stage will be a huge blow to the morale of the Indian Navy. They are likely to be deployed at the height of fighting when their entry becomes necessary to hold the opposite power.

Pakistan’s Counter Options against Aircraft Carriers

Pakistan is beefing up its muscles against the increasing number of Indian warships and capabilities. Part of its efforts is focused on developing anti-access/area-denial (A2/AD) capabilities. It is developing various anti-ship capabilities to effectively neutralize the Indian advantage of large numbers of warships and aircraft carriers. There are three layers of defence against Indian aircraft if deployed against Pakistan.

Firstly, Pakistan deploys anti-ship cruise missiles (ASCM) on its submarines. Pakistan currently operates two Agosta-70 submarines that can fire Harpoon anti-ship missiles, three Agosta 90B submarines that can carry Exocet anti-ship missiles. Eight submarines are on order from China which will also have anti-ship capabilities. Secondly, it has also developed or acquired several ASCMs such as Harba ASCM launched from the ship and the air-launched CM-400AKG anti-ship missile with supersonic speed. The coastal/land-based Zarb ASCM provides the third line of defence in the coastal waters of Pakistan against the intruding carrier. The Navy is also reportedly developing a supersonic cruise missile and an anti-ship ballistic missile. The development of anti-ship ballistic missiles will create a long buffer zone against the Indian carrier depending on the missile’s range.

Indian Navy will seriously consider the growing effectiveness of Pakistan’s anti-ship capabilities for the deployment of its carriers. These capabilities will force Indian carriers to operate from a safer distance making it less useful against the country. Even if trying to carry out a blockade of Pakistan or achieve air dominance against Pakistan in the Arabian sea, it risks its survival against Pakistan’s potent anti-ship capabilities.

Source: https://cscr.pk/explore/themes/defe...craft-carrier-a-big-threat-for-pakistan-navy/
No threat we are starting trade with India now we are neutral we should reduce security budget and subsidies food for poors
 

FuturePAF

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I posted this in a different thread but this seems a better place to mention this, and didn’t want of flood that topic with these videos.

This maybe where India wants to go for its future carrier program, or at least where French salesmen hope the Indians will go.

Either way, the PN should anticipate a threat of approximately this scope, as India is working on an EMALs for a CATOBAR carrier.

It maybe that the Indian version will have domestic Indian nuclear reactors so the time horizon for this threat maybe in the 2030s at the earliest.

the future French “PA-NG” aircraft carrier is expected to be approx. 70,000-75,000 tons (which I suspect they are trying to also sell to India for licensed production in their Cochin shipyard; as the Indians are building a dry dock for a 70,000 ton ship at that yard to be completed possibly this year) is expected to be nuclear powered.

Tonnage of the French carrier stated in the following video
 
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Kaleem.61

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India is like a M***y having matchbox can do anything unexpected...

I guess: in the end ACs are bases at all, giving you the chance to kill dozens of jets at once!

At fast track we need better Marines.

Give more perks to the Army
Let the poor die with hunger!
 

SD 10

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The possession of an aircraft carrier is of significant value for any navy. The idea behind the development of an aircraft carrier is to project power at a long distance in peacetime and achieve air dominance at sea during a war. It restricts the adversary warships outside of a designated area, acts as a coercive tool, protects interests at sea, and exercises influence over an area. All major powers having interests outside of their territories have developed them, especially after World War II when the potential of carriers to strike targets accurately at a long-distance using aircraft was effectively demonstrated. India operates one aircraft carrier; another is under sea trials, and the third one is planned. The possession of these carriers lifts India as a major power in the Indian Ocean Region. However, the possession of carriers may have more utility during peacetime than a full-fledged war due to the growing effectiveness and success of anti-ship capabilities.

Indian Maritime Doctrine and Aircraft Carriers

Indian Maritime Doctrine outlines a large area as an area of interest for the Indian Navy to strengthen its position as a blue water force capable of operating and projecting power beyond its home waters. The doctrine enlists primary, secondary, and “other areas” as areas of interest based on the location of the Indian Diaspora and overseas investments vital for the Indian Navy. It also enlists various enabling concepts to protect interests in these areas like “sea control” and “sea denial.”


The backbone of a blue water navy is the aircraft carrier and the Indian Navy plans to possess three aircraft carriers in total, giving it the flexibility to have two operational carriers all the times. INS Vikramaditya aircraft carrier with a displacement of 45,000 tons is the current operational carrier of India. The under-trial carrier is domestically built INS Vikrant and is slated to be commissioned early next year. The construction of follow-on to Vikrant is being debated in India due to the questions on the utility of aircraft carriers in comparison to submarines. It has not been approved by the Indian Government yet. Indian Navy operates two squadrons of MiG 29K carrier-borne multi-role aircraft inducted in 2010. Various operational problems have been observed in the aircraft like engine, airframe, and fly-by-wire system.

Limitations of Indian Aircraft Carriers

While the anti-ship capabilities are becoming common, more advanced, and precise, Indian carriers are not among the most advanced in the world. There are also certain limitations of the Indian carriers to operate and effectively project power against Pakistan. Firstly, Indian carriers have limited displacement and can carry up to 36 mixes of aircraft. The limited displacement also means reduced fuel load and an operational range of aircraft, forcing it to operate near the adversary. Displacement capacity also impacts the weapons load on the aircraft. Secondly, the aircraft on the carriers are allocated defensive and offensive roles. Increasing numbers for one role can have catastrophic implications for the other. Thirdly, take-off and landing on the carrier are totally different from ground-based landing and take-off. Indian carriers use Short Take-off But Assisted Recovery (STOBAR) take-off and landing system, which has a slower take-off rate than the more advanced Catapult Assisted Take-off But Arrested Recovery (CATOBAR) system.

Carriers are Strategic Assets

The aircraft are costly affairs. Development and operational costs make a carrier a valuable asset for any navy. India acquired Vikramaditya along with 45 MiG-29K aircraft and additional modifications with the overall price ranging between $6 billion and $7 billion. The total price of the second carrier Vikrant with 36 aircraft, is likely to be $10–11 billion. At the same time, the cost of a third carrier will likely be $16–17 billion. The price factor alone makes them a strategic weapon that determines the deployment of the carrier during a war. The carrier, during peacetime, performs the power projection role when there is no threat to them. However, their deployment during the war becomes a tricky decision. It is unlikely that India will deploy them at the initial stages of a war with Pakistan. Although they are protected with a layer of defensive systems, their sinking at this stage will be a huge blow to the morale of the Indian Navy. They are likely to be deployed at the height of fighting when their entry becomes necessary to hold the opposite power.

Pakistan’s Counter Options against Aircraft Carriers

Pakistan is beefing up its muscles against the increasing number of Indian warships and capabilities. Part of its efforts is focused on developing anti-access/area-denial (A2/AD) capabilities. It is developing various anti-ship capabilities to effectively neutralize the Indian advantage of large numbers of warships and aircraft carriers. There are three layers of defence against Indian aircraft if deployed against Pakistan.

Firstly, Pakistan deploys anti-ship cruise missiles (ASCM) on its submarines. Pakistan currently operates two Agosta-70 submarines that can fire Harpoon anti-ship missiles, three Agosta 90B submarines that can carry Exocet anti-ship missiles. Eight submarines are on order from China which will also have anti-ship capabilities. Secondly, it has also developed or acquired several ASCMs such as Harba ASCM launched from the ship and the air-launched CM-400AKG anti-ship missile with supersonic speed. The coastal/land-based Zarb ASCM provides the third line of defence in the coastal waters of Pakistan against the intruding carrier. The Navy is also reportedly developing a supersonic cruise missile and an anti-ship ballistic missile. The development of anti-ship ballistic missiles will create a long buffer zone against the Indian carrier depending on the missile’s range.

Indian Navy will seriously consider the growing effectiveness of Pakistan’s anti-ship capabilities for the deployment of its carriers. These capabilities will force Indian carriers to operate from a safer distance making it less useful against the country. Even if trying to carry out a blockade of Pakistan or achieve air dominance against Pakistan in the Arabian sea, it risks its survival against Pakistan’s potent anti-ship capabilities.

Source: https://cscr.pk/explore/themes/defe...craft-carrier-a-big-threat-for-pakistan-navy/
you are talking as if we are going to have a war? one call from the MASTERS! and the generals will give up the country to indians!
 

PradoTLC

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The possession of an aircraft carrier is of significant value for any navy. The idea behind the development of an aircraft carrier is to project power at a long distance in peacetime and achieve air dominance at sea during a war. It restricts the adversary warships outside of a designated area, acts as a coercive tool, protects interests at sea, and exercises influence over an area. All major powers having interests outside of their territories have developed them, especially after World War II when the potential of carriers to strike targets accurately at a long-distance using aircraft was effectively demonstrated. India operates one aircraft carrier; another is under sea trials, and the third one is planned. The possession of these carriers lifts India as a major power in the Indian Ocean Region. However, the possession of carriers may have more utility during peacetime than a full-fledged war due to the growing effectiveness and success of anti-ship capabilities.

Indian Maritime Doctrine and Aircraft Carriers

Indian Maritime Doctrine outlines a large area as an area of interest for the Indian Navy to strengthen its position as a blue water force capable of operating and projecting power beyond its home waters. The doctrine enlists primary, secondary, and “other areas” as areas of interest based on the location of the Indian Diaspora and overseas investments vital for the Indian Navy. It also enlists various enabling concepts to protect interests in these areas like “sea control” and “sea denial.”


The backbone of a blue water navy is the aircraft carrier and the Indian Navy plans to possess three aircraft carriers in total, giving it the flexibility to have two operational carriers all the times. INS Vikramaditya aircraft carrier with a displacement of 45,000 tons is the current operational carrier of India. The under-trial carrier is domestically built INS Vikrant and is slated to be commissioned early next year. The construction of follow-on to Vikrant is being debated in India due to the questions on the utility of aircraft carriers in comparison to submarines. It has not been approved by the Indian Government yet. Indian Navy operates two squadrons of MiG 29K carrier-borne multi-role aircraft inducted in 2010. Various operational problems have been observed in the aircraft like engine, airframe, and fly-by-wire system.

Limitations of Indian Aircraft Carriers

While the anti-ship capabilities are becoming common, more advanced, and precise, Indian carriers are not among the most advanced in the world. There are also certain limitations of the Indian carriers to operate and effectively project power against Pakistan. Firstly, Indian carriers have limited displacement and can carry up to 36 mixes of aircraft. The limited displacement also means reduced fuel load and an operational range of aircraft, forcing it to operate near the adversary. Displacement capacity also impacts the weapons load on the aircraft. Secondly, the aircraft on the carriers are allocated defensive and offensive roles. Increasing numbers for one role can have catastrophic implications for the other. Thirdly, take-off and landing on the carrier are totally different from ground-based landing and take-off. Indian carriers use Short Take-off But Assisted Recovery (STOBAR) take-off and landing system, which has a slower take-off rate than the more advanced Catapult Assisted Take-off But Arrested Recovery (CATOBAR) system.

Carriers are Strategic Assets

The aircraft are costly affairs. Development and operational costs make a carrier a valuable asset for any navy. India acquired Vikramaditya along with 45 MiG-29K aircraft and additional modifications with the overall price ranging between $6 billion and $7 billion. The total price of the second carrier Vikrant with 36 aircraft, is likely to be $10–11 billion. At the same time, the cost of a third carrier will likely be $16–17 billion. The price factor alone makes them a strategic weapon that determines the deployment of the carrier during a war. The carrier, during peacetime, performs the power projection role when there is no threat to them. However, their deployment during the war becomes a tricky decision. It is unlikely that India will deploy them at the initial stages of a war with Pakistan. Although they are protected with a layer of defensive systems, their sinking at this stage will be a huge blow to the morale of the Indian Navy. They are likely to be deployed at the height of fighting when their entry becomes necessary to hold the opposite power.

Pakistan’s Counter Options against Aircraft Carriers

Pakistan is beefing up its muscles against the increasing number of Indian warships and capabilities. Part of its efforts is focused on developing anti-access/area-denial (A2/AD) capabilities. It is developing various anti-ship capabilities to effectively neutralize the Indian advantage of large numbers of warships and aircraft carriers. There are three layers of defence against Indian aircraft if deployed against Pakistan.

Firstly, Pakistan deploys anti-ship cruise missiles (ASCM) on its submarines. Pakistan currently operates two Agosta-70 submarines that can fire Harpoon anti-ship missiles, three Agosta 90B submarines that can carry Exocet anti-ship missiles. Eight submarines are on order from China which will also have anti-ship capabilities. Secondly, it has also developed or acquired several ASCMs such as Harba ASCM launched from the ship and the air-launched CM-400AKG anti-ship missile with supersonic speed. The coastal/land-based Zarb ASCM provides the third line of defence in the coastal waters of Pakistan against the intruding carrier. The Navy is also reportedly developing a supersonic cruise missile and an anti-ship ballistic missile. The development of anti-ship ballistic missiles will create a long buffer zone against the Indian carrier depending on the missile’s range.

Indian Navy will seriously consider the growing effectiveness of Pakistan’s anti-ship capabilities for the deployment of its carriers. These capabilities will force Indian carriers to operate from a safer distance making it less useful against the country. Even if trying to carry out a blockade of Pakistan or achieve air dominance against Pakistan in the Arabian sea, it risks its survival against Pakistan’s potent anti-ship capabilities.

Source: https://cscr.pk/explore/themes/defe...craft-carrier-a-big-threat-for-pakistan-navy/


unless Topgun Maverick is flying those planes..

No
 

Adnan12333

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I think biggest threat to pak is Mr Bajwa and this imported company right now
Iss ghar ko Aag lag Gai ghar k cherag sa
 

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