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Is India really capable of building a 5th gen fighter

nahtanbob

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Metals that go into the al31 engine are produced here in india by midhani, we might not know the know why but we know the know how, we can make a al31 engine here in india even if russia decides to sanction us.


what foreign component does uttam use, because as far as i know only early prototype (GaAs ones) used some critical foreign content, signal processors to be exact which is now replaced with indigenious one in the GaN based production variant.
As of now uttam is 95% indigenous hardware wise and 90% indigenious value wise.
If you are making a claim atleast have the decency to provide some credible proof to back your claim

indian irst program is not very publicin nature and there is very low amount of news regarding the program, i don't know how did you came to the conclusion that
irst has foreign content there is no news that denies or proves this allegation,

Even for the AL-31 until you make them you can never be sure

Until you mass produce AESA radars in multitude of systems (aircraft, air defense radars) you cannot claim anything

Keep in mind India has imported aircraft of less demanding technical requirements - Hawk-132 etc

Technically Tejas is an operational aircraft. Isn't it ?
 
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Faceless

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Even for the AL-31 until you make them you can never be sure

Until you mass produce AESA radars in multitude of systems (aircraft, air defense radars) you cannot claim anything

Keep in mind India has imported aircraft of less demanding technical requirements - Hawk-132 etc

Technically Tejas is an operational aircraft. Isn't it ?
what do you mean you can never be sure, as of right now we make al31 in india with 90% locally produced items, we can overhaul them independently without any Russian intervention, what else do you want.

man you are really thick headed aren't you
these are the indigenious radar india already has,
we have enough experience in the radar field to back whatever claim we make.
our uttam radar is fully indigenous and at par with anything most of the world has to offer.

hawk 132 was an immediate requirement and not very strategic in nature, you can blaim indian bureaucracy, IAF corruption and lack of inter services communication for no indigenious advanced jet trainer project.

if we can produce these trainers indigenously why do you think we can't make a hawk 132 class aircraft
  • HT-2 — First company design to enter production.
  • HAL-26 Pushpak — Basic trainer, based on Aeronca Chief
  • HPT-32 Deepak — Basic trainer in service for more than three decades.
  • HJT-16 Kiran — Mk1, Mk1A and Mk2 - Turbojet trainers scheduled to be replaced with HJT-36 Sitara.[46]
  • HTT-34 — Turboprop version of HPT-32 Deepak
  • HTT-35 — Proposed replacement for HPT-32 basic trainer in the early 1990s; not pursued
  • HJT-36 Sitara — Intermediate jet trainer (under development)
  • HTT-40 — Basic trainer (in production)[47] first prototype flew its first flight on 31 May 2016.[48] (106 ordered)

if you think india can't make a basic 4th gen aircraft indigenously then that just shows your willful ignorance and lack of critical thinking
 
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nahtanbob

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if we can produce these trainers indigenously why do you think we can't make a hawk 132 class aircraft
  • HT-2 — First company design to enter production.
  • HAL-26 Pushpak — Basic trainer, based on Aeronca Chief
  • HPT-32 Deepak — Basic trainer in service for more than three decades.
  • HJT-16 Kiran — Mk1, Mk1A and Mk2 - Turbojet trainers scheduled to be replaced with HJT-36 Sitara.[46]
  • HTT-34 — Turboprop version of HPT-32 Deepak
  • HTT-35 — Proposed replacement for HPT-32 basic trainer in the early 1990s; not pursued
  • HJT-36 Sitara — Intermediate jet trainer (under development)
  • HTT-40 — Basic trainer (in production)[47] first prototype flew its first flight on 31 May 2016.[48] (106 ordered)

Hawk-132 is a little superior to all of those aircraft
It is not too hard to make Hawk-132 but who is going to pay all those kickbacks ? :enjoy:
 

undercover JIX

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OP needs to smell the coffee (Indian Version) Since vedic times India has theses toys.

How do you think NASA Lockheed, Northrop etc developing everything???? answer is simple, because of Indians working there....
 

Faceless

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Hawk-132 is a little superior to all of those aircraft
It is not too hard to make Hawk-132 but who is going to pay all those kickbacks ? :enjoy:
you said it yourselves, its not about the technology or competence of our research institutions, its about the kickbabks.
this particular thread is about indian technological competence in making a 5th gen platform and you too made your earlier comment on the technological competence of our research institutions not the corruption of IAF.

Don't change goalposts, if you wanna talk about corruption in Indian airforce or india in general we can talk about that somewhere else no need to pollute this thread.

Case in point we can make a hawk 132 or mig 21 class jet 100% indigenously.

OP needs to smell the coffee (Indian Version) Since vedic times India has theses toys.

How do you think NASA Lockheed, Northrop etc developing everything???? answer is simple, because of Indians working there....
Please refrain from posting on this thread if you don't have anything productive to add, if you wanna ask questions or refute my claims logically just like the others, be my guest. but if you just want to pick fights and insult me because of my nationality, then please leave.

Bloody manchild 😤
 

Bilal Khan (Quwa)

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IMO...Yes.

However, India's decision-makers need to align on whether they actually want to design and build their own NGFA. With the Tejas, it had seemed that the IAF would keep pushing the goalpost each time HAL/DRDO reached a milestone. Coincidentally, these delays happened when the IAF looked toward the imported MMRCA. Just my thoughts, but it seems India's decision-making apparatus has factions, and some factions prefer importing (and, as a result, benefitting from partnerships, offsets, FDIs, etc) while others prefer indigenizing.
 

IblinI

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but it seems India's decision-making apparatus has factions, and some factions prefer importing (and, as a result, benefitting from partnerships, offsets, FDIs, etc) while others prefer indigenizing.
Similar thing happened in my country during 90s, where a lot of top brass in the air force prefers flanker and wanted to ditch J10 but the chairman Jiang saved the project and CAC.
 

Faceless

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IMO...Yes.

However, India's decision-makers need to align on whether they actually want to design and build their own NGFA. With the Tejas, it had seemed that the IAF would keep pushing the goalpost each time HAL/DRDO reached a milestone. Coincidentally, these delays happened when the IAF looked toward the imported MMRCA. Just my thoughts, but it seems India's decision-making apparatus has factions, and some factions prefer importing (and, as a result, benefitting from partnerships, offsets, FDIs, etc) while others prefer indigenizing.

Truer words were never spoken.
Same saga is seeming to repeat itself, there has been a lot of push to shelve Tejas mk2 and import gripen E with local manufacturing.
However this time, these Import Pasand people will have to deal with the modi government who is hell bent on indigenization and will only allow import if it's an absolute necessity and a local alternative is not available

IAF has no other option but to double down on AMCA because SU57 proved to be a dud and our political leadership will never allow F35 as using that means giving away our autonomy to the Americans (you can never operate F35 independently)


Similar thing happened in my country during 90s, where a lot of top brass in the air force prefers flanker and wanted to ditch J10 but the chairman Jiang saved the project and CAC.
Good for you people, you had a wise man at the helm
 
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MirageBlue

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IMO...Yes.

However, India's decision-makers need to align on whether they actually want to design and build their own NGFA. With the Tejas, it had seemed that the IAF would keep pushing the goalpost each time HAL/DRDO reached a milestone. Coincidentally, these delays happened when the IAF looked toward the imported MMRCA. Just my thoughts, but it seems India's decision-making apparatus has factions, and some factions prefer importing (and, as a result, benefitting from partnerships, offsets, FDIs, etc) while others prefer indigenizing.

this was what was stated in a deposition to the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Defence by a very senior IAF official who also happened to be a former LCA test pilot.

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Imagine having had to completely revamp the architecture of the avionics mid-way through developmental test flights. That was done for the LCA because the IAF began to complain that the original LCA avionics architecture was no longer going to be future proof.

But then again, that federated architecture of the Tejas Mk1 (which Gripen E uses in a more prominent manner) has helped in allowing integrations to be done faster than would have been possible with the earlier architecture. So in that sense, the delays it caused will in the long run be more than compensated for.

As this senior IAF official states, FCS, avionics, composite structures, we are already close to the state of the art. Actuators will be of Indian origin on the Tejas Mk1A from later batches. For Tejas Mk2 they'll be Indian when in production. The biggest bug bear is the engine but that is the case with Turkey, South Korea. But that requires a LOT of money to be spent, which is where the Indian Govt. needs to put it's money where it's mouth is.
 

nahtanbob

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you said it yourselves, its not about the technology or competence of our research institutions, its about the kickbabks.
this particular thread is about indian technological competence in making a 5th gen platform and you too made your earlier comment on the technological competence of our research institutions not the corruption of IAF.

Don't change goalposts, if you wanna talk about corruption in Indian airforce or india in general we can talk about that somewhere else no need to pollute this thread.

Case in point we can make a hawk 132 or mig 21 class jet 100% indigenously.

at some point unless you make it you cannot claim the capability

IMO...Yes.

However, India's decision-makers need to align on whether they actually want to design and build their own NGFA. With the Tejas, it had seemed that the IAF would keep pushing the goalpost each time HAL/DRDO reached a milestone. Coincidentally, these delays happened when the IAF looked toward the imported MMRCA. Just my thoughts, but it seems India's decision-making apparatus has factions, and some factions prefer importing (and, as a result, benefitting from partnerships, offsets, FDIs, etc) while others prefer indigenizing.
I do not think the Indian military brass has any confidence in the government owned defense companies
 

Broccoli

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How is Turkey doing so much better than India despite economic gap and population size?

A lot more money to go around if you look force structures.

Turkish air force operates F-16 (250) and F-4 (48) while India has seven! fighter types with each having it's own logistic trail, etc. It's not just that but gives some insight how badly IAF is managed.
 
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