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Arash1991

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Unfortunately, such a small tunnel would be destroyed to shreds by just one GBU-28.
The mountain connected to the runway is only 30 meters high at its peak and has a gentle slope. Even if the missiles were to land with only a few meters error, it is hard to imagine the time it would take to completely collapse the entrance and restore it.
Even a much smaller scale tunnel collapse in Japan took one month for investigation and one month for restoration work.
The reality is that once a tunnel is seriously damaged, there is a possibility that it will collapse again if work is done too easily, so even the investigation takes a very long time.
If just one missile can disable dozens of fighter jets and nullify the large amount of money invested in their construction.
What an easy target that would be for the U.S. and Israel to thrill at!
i think you might be right about the tunnel between the main storage room and the runway. but there are solutions for that, since the base is not finished yet it could just be that another taxiway to the runway will be built. Where i definitely disagree is with your predictions about repairs. in wartime there is definitely no investigation that will take a month. Unless the entire structure has completely collapsed, the debris would be removed in a matter of hours with multiple bulldozers.
However, I believe that this covered interim structure serves a purpose, certainly as a passive defense against cruise missile and/or drone attacks. (just a guess) after all, they irgc thought of something and could have removed this structure to make the taxiway barrier free.

Regarding bombs and tunnel intrusion:
From an engineer's perspective, I would like to make the following comment: If a bunker buster enters the tunnel and explodes, the pressure from the explosion will first try to take the path of least resistance. In other words, the explosion wave will mainly press out along the tunnel or, in the case of the outer roofed intermediate structure on the taxiway, at the openings. The explosion will most likely not cause the structure to collapse. This can also be observed in various tests conducted with bunker busters and hardened aircraft hangars. see video:


to completely destroy a bunker in a room, you would have to hit a very specific enclosed space in an underground facility so that the explosion wave is forcibly released into the surrounding material. The tunnel itself is designed to transmit, attenuate or stop pressure waves. Furthermore, the rooms themselves are (here maybe not completely) but usually the best protected point of the whole structure.

In this example, we see the attenuation of the pressure wave over the length of the room (attention: closed room).

in order to bring the main tunnel to a complete collapse, the entire load-bearing structures would have to be destroyed, and this is only possible at certain points, if at all. The tunnel is actually built with hard concrete and this super hard concrete is surrounded by softer earth material. Even if you explode a bunker buster bomb in the earth, the explosion would again take the path of least resistance and be reflected back into the softer earth layer at the harder tunnel shell.

If the bunker buster bomb is really set so precisely that it explodes exactly in the concrete tunnel core, then the explosion would still not want to escape sideways but at the point with the smallest wall thickness. this means that the explosion will damage the concrete, but the pressure wave will try to escape at the point with the smallest wall thickness.
To collapse the entire load-bearing structure with a bunker buster is therefore not very easy.
 

Muhammed45

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first mission for fighters is when you detect enemy you launch them into sky to intercept them . not hide them , you hide the bomber and use them in retaliation , your fighter go into sky the second you detect enemy air-crafts .
and iran lost airplane to iraq bombing when the planes were parked in open
IRIAF is in a defensive position. You cannot expect F4/F14/F5 to intercept F22s.

IRIAF is the final defense layer against barrages of cruise missiles.

Although i agree that hiding F4s inside those underground bases is not a good idea. And i hope they hide IRIAF interceptors there not bombers.
 

Arash1991

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In North korea they have even runways protected by mountains

Kangda-ri closeup 2018-annotated.PNG


And of course also Eagle 44 Style with hangars in mountain

1c5f9f9b-cdbe-4cd0-b2b4-6c27f6cbece0.jpg


Swizerland
1675940708570.png

1675940775719.png

Ex Yoguslavia
1675940833763.png

China have mopre than 40 of these underground Airbases
1675940963611.png

Taiwan have at least one big underground Airbase for more than 200 fighter jets
1675941066865.png

1675941137353.png

Israel (flooded some years ago, think should be repared by now)
1675941305560.png

Sweden
1675941349837.png


Other underground airbase projects are porojected to be in the United arab Emirates with help of Israel.
 
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Piet

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IRIAF is in a defensive position. You cannot expect F4/F14/F5 to intercept F22s.

IRIAF is the final defense layer against barrages of cruise missiles.

Although i agree that hiding F4s inside those underground bases is not a good idea. And i hope they hide IRIAF interceptors there not bombers.

The first to target, if the US is involved, will be multiple, multiple, CM's. Those which are able to avoid detection and subsequently reach their targets will not however have the oomph to damage seriously dug in Iranian nuclear facilities.

Maybe these will target ADS' such as SAM batteries, radar installations, and probably also 'soft ' C&C posts) in an X radius, in order to clear a path for the main strike force.

Followed by F-35's and B-2's in short order carrying the heavy ordinance required to penetrate these deeply dug in nuclear facilities. If this does not work, ultimately B-52's. I doubt however whether valuable, irreplaceable B-52's, will be involved.

Given Iran's embarrassing depth in SAM's of all kind and range, and, also employing passive means of detection, this will be a headache. Sure while Iranian AD's will *eventually* be overcome by massive bombing campaigns, time is not on the side of the attacking (forces). Before this point is reached Iran's fixed and opportune targets would have been reduced to rubble by its versatile and distributed missile forces.

Moral of the story to potential aggressor forces, don't.

Regarding the role of the IRIAF, it should seek to make strike package drivers nervous by firing a few Hail Mary LRAAM (still to be unveiled ...plz) shots at maximum range. It should furthermore avoid tangling with F-22 et al. Possibly try to pick up stragglers egressing the battlefield.

Piet
 

Arash1991

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sometimes i have the feeling that some users here are waiting for the perfect unassailable system that will never exist. The fact is that if iran really is in a direct military conflict with the usa, that means that iran will also take damage. some comments already come across as if they have the expectation that all bunkers in iran will always hold, the air defenses are impenetrable and only iran will dish it out and the usa will not know what they are doing and somehow survive. but the truth is that iran will have to take a hit, and iran will have to take a hit in the course of a potential war, that planning will not go as expected, etc. the question here is not how much you can dish out, but how much you can take and whether you can keep fighting.

should we not build bunkers because there are bunker-busting weapons? or should we not build air defenses because there are jamming sensors against them? unfortunately, some commentators give this impression, forgetting that a partial force is not isolated but, on the contrary, works together like an orchestra in a network and is in constant exchange and adaptation to the circumstances. More important are questions such as: who makes which decisions, when and on the basis of what information? Submarines, ships and airplanes, etc. are only devices with a specific function. It is much more important what the human being who operates these systems does.
There were enough examples where a supposedly stronger opponent could not hold a candle to a far inferior opponent or a technically more backward one and even lost his prestige objects in the process. (e.g. Japanese empire that lost the yamato, the largest warship of the time, and only lost some torpedo bombers from the time shortly after the first world war etc.)
 

jauk

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The work is as simple as repairing the runway and
The task of restoring a tunnel that has been shredded by a missile is very different.
Even in Japan, where a road cave-in can be repaired in a few days, it took a month to restore a collapsed tunnel, and if it were during a war, it would be a hopeless task.

Japan, is not the leading edge in this area. Iran is. Terrible example.
 

Hack-Hook

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IRIAF is in a defensive position. You cannot expect F4/F14/F5 to intercept F22s.

IRIAF is the final defense layer against barrages of cruise missiles.

Although i agree that hiding F4s inside those underground bases is not a good idea. And i hope they hide IRIAF interceptors there not bombers.
you can not expect this certain base remain operational against those so called f-22, or B-2
you must decide its against f-15 and mirage 2000 or its against f-22.
hiding interepors there is like saddam burying its aircraft , that base is only good for f-4 and su-34 nombers.interceptors must be launched on seconds notice , just think how long it take to launch interceptors from that base

In North korea they have even runways protected by mountains

View attachment 915701

And of course also Eagle 44 Style with hangars in mountain

View attachment 915702

Swizerland
View attachment 915716
View attachment 915717
Ex Yoguslavia
View attachment 915718
China have mopre than 40 of these underground Airbases
View attachment 915720
Taiwan have at least one big underground Airbase for more than 200 fighter jets
View attachment 915721
View attachment 915722
Israel (flooded some years ago, think should be repared by now)
View attachment 915723
Sweden
View attachment 915724

Other underground airbase projects are porojected to be in the United arab Emirates with help of Israel.
built at the height of cold war when there were no long range precision bombing .show me the recent ones
 

TheImmortal

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and as it said at the time to you , these type of bases only good for bombers putting fighter inside them is like shooting at your own foot because even one hour delay in lunching them is meaning one hour of open season for enemy air force

also don't talk about ridiculus suggestion of using special alloy metal meshed to protect the base the bomb shred the mesh not mesh shredding the bomb

I never said for only good for bombers, I said if you eventually get high altitude supersonic bombers (manned or unmanned) then you would use these bases to protect them as they are HVA (high value asset).

The bases should primarily be used to protect Iran’s most valuable asset —air superiority fighters. These are the only aircraft that can take immense strain off irans air defenses and keep the enemy from imposing their will.

also don't talk about ridiculus suggestion of using special alloy metal meshed to protect the base the bomb shred the mesh not mesh shredding the bomb

It is not absurd. A tungsten type of contraception can be built to cause pre detonation. After all, US military experimented with idea of tungsten rods shot from space as a space weapon. If it can survive re-entry, it can cause pre detonation of a PGM. Wether it survives after is irrelevant.

Lastly you add a failsafe systems such as the one below on the airbase and the threat of PGMs getting thru drops even further. (Assuming they made it thru Bavar ring, Khordad ring, Dezful ring)

1675950755715.jpeg
 

Arash1991

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you can not expect this certain base remain operational against those so called f-22, or B-2
you must decide its against f-15 and mirage 2000 or its against f-22.
hiding interepors there is like saddam burying its aircraft , that base is only good for f-4 and su-34 nombers.interceptors must be launched on seconds notice , just think how long it take to launch interceptors from that base


built at the height of cold war when there were no long range precision bombing .show me the recent ones
Taiwan

and china still building more of these bases....and most recent one is in iran. Why do you need confirmation from other countries? you dont trust in your own countries ideas and capacities ?
 

Mr Iran Eye

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The so-called last chance defense systems will play a big role in making the interception very effective. The Mesbah system which was announced in 2010 was a big announcement for Iran. Artillery of 8 guns with optical tracking and 3D radar. 13 years later, I strongly suspect this improved all-in-one system and surely equipped with a missile. A kind of mixture pantsir, Mesbah.

Breaking through Iran's defenses will be very difficult for the enemy because the combination of diversified defense systems, diversified artillery, combat aircraft, helicopters, very diversified drones, balloons, airships, decoys, cyber warfare, electronics and electromagnetic, laser and more will be a nightmare
 

tsunset

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Unfortunately, such a small tunnel would be destroyed to shreds by just one GBU-28.
The mountain connected to the runway is only 30 meters high at its peak and has a gentle slope. Even if the missiles were to land with only a few meters error, it is hard to imagine the time it would take to completely collapse the entrance and restore it.
Even a much smaller scale tunnel collapse in Japan took one month for investigation and one month for restoration work.
The reality is that once a tunnel is seriously damaged, there is a possibility that it will collapse again if work is done too easily, so even the investigation takes a very long time.
If just one missile can disable dozens of fighter jets and nullify the large amount of money invested in their construction.
What an easy target that would be for the U.S. and Israel to thrill at!
One of the most idiotic post I've seen along with the Israeli troll and his invincible and invisible F-35i that got alien technology.

I'm not even a military expert at all, GBU-28 is what i call a propaganda bomb, or a propaganda real weapon (just as same as "laser israeli weapon" or the F-35/F-22), judging by the operational history of this weapon.

From what i searched, Israelis seems to brag a lot about this bomb (GBU-28), about how they used it against Palestine.

Israel in particular is also known for its massive military propaganda and massive history rewriting, exaggerating everything about their capabilities and what they've did in their previous wars in which they were involved), also sometimes bringing out things such as "laser weapons" or some alien technology that they got from an Alien galaxy because "jews are superior and got already in contact with another galaxy), that Israel was the creator of the atomic bomb, that Israel was the creator of everything, including the earth and the galaxy (and god too). Even Turkey and Azerbaijan Republic combined with India have made less history rewriting in all its existence compared to Israel.

From informations available publicly, this bomb has been used only in asymmetric wars (Against Saddam's remnants and Gaza), Gaza tunnels and primitive bunkers built by some defunct 2003 groups in Iraq.

The only mentions of "GBU28" and "Iran" "Bunkers" "Nuclear" "Iran GBU28/GBU-28" and every other similar tags that shows up on google search, the results that appears are, ironically your post here on Defence.pk, and other users on Zionist phpbb made forums. No studies, not even a single person with credible military experience shows up, neither even a mention on credible military outlets neither even on Israel and western propaganda outlets.

So, this bomb which has seen extensive use as a propaganda tool on internet referring to how it would "Easily destroy Hezbollah" and some Israeli trolls on their own hugbox forums, and on Israeli and Western outlets, which has only an operational history in asymmetric wars against Hamas and other Palestine groups and Saddam dead groups, would destroy an underground airbase from a legitimate country like that?

I mention that this bomb was used to into talks about Iranian underground nuclear sites and not airbases, which are probably massively protected already.

You should shut down your VPN also, i think that's not allowed there.
 

TheImmortal

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Stryker1982

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For the potato chip Mountain Dew generals:

A refreshing course for Iranian underground sites




If non-mountain site Natanz was designed to take on the GBU-28 in 2000‘a, what do you think a mountain airbase is designed for 2 decades later?

Answer -> bunker buster tactical nuke variant
What do you mean, just bomb the entrances

st,small,507x507-pad,600x600,f8f8f8.jpg

Answer -> bunker buster tactical nuke variant
This is the only thing I was unsure about. Can centrifuge sites handle multiple tac nuclear bunker busters....

If non-mountain site Natanz was designed to take on the GBU-28 in 2000‘a
Natanz is also being expanded into the adjacent mountain which appears to have even a larger depth than Fordow.
 

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