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Kowsar and JF-17, F-5 and Harrier GR.3 destroys Su-35 easily so it's pointless to spend billions on that fighter that gets wrecked by western better white technology...

Lol i hope you're being sarcastic!

can you explain when somebody claimed f-5 and harrier can destroy su-35 and kowsar and jf-17 can do it easily ?
what here is said is su-35 is useless for iran as it can't compete with rafale and f-15sa and f-16 block-72 that is around us

You seem to think that what we have is enough, so he is taking the piss out of you, ahmagh lol
 

Iraqi soldier

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حسنًا ، حول الفصل 53 لدي شك. إذا أنفقنا المال على المحرك في فئة ما بداخل Uh-1 و AH-1 ، فمن المحتمل أن يكون من الممكن تحقيقه في 4-5 سنوات ولكن المحرك الموجود في CH-53 أقوى بمقدار 2.5-3 مرات ، لدي شك في ذلك
well , about ch-53 i have my doubt . if we spend the money on it engine in class of what is inside Uh-1 and AH-1 probably is achievable in 4-5 year but the one in CH-53 is 2.5-3 time more powerful , i have my doubt about it
I know that the power of the engine is twice the power of the TV3 engine, but if it can copy this engine, it can re-engineer the T-64 engine

That's what you do with the Venom and Viper helicopters
 

Joe_Adam

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well let just say that is the price of 100,000 shahed-136 if we estmate the price at 50,000$ a piece , if we go with 20,000$ that will be 250,000 shahed-136
Strategic weapon systems don't fit the methodology of Hay-Market barter deal to be measured in pennies or dollars my friend.

For Russia selling SU-35 to Iran nowadays is a strategic decision far outweighing pennies or dollars. It is a long term national security issue that Russia recognized during the war in Ukraine. Its true, the transaction benefits Iran, it also benefits Russia but on lesser scale. Iran will be a cornerstone of Russia's future dealings with regional and global issues because Iran shown its weight and influence as a prominent rising power.

For the Russians it became obvious & proven that Iran is nation that could be relied upon as an ally a hot-topic spoken about daily in the Russian parliament, political circles, Russian media, and by the Russian regular folks in a highly positive light. By assisting Russia, and showing friendship, Iran took a great political risk that no other nation dared to take and none will "except" Belarus but Belarus is a sister nation, a nation with similar culture, intertwined in shared history, ethnicity, and relion, while Iran is not . . .

Russia sold huge quantities of arms to China and India since 1960s "USSR & Russia". Despite the physical size of those two big bulky nations "almost 3 billion in total", but they are spineless and global jokes especially India which is ready to take advantage of the Ukraine war by gobbling Russian oil and grains in great quantities at fire sale prices, and yet as usual, never gutsy enough to announce any active support to anyone. India didn't transfer a single penny's worth of material to Russia while 95% of Indian media is against Russia. Chinese are not as a worthless cowards but they scores less than 3 points on the scale of 1:10 to India's ZERO "0:10" which seems to indicate three folds higher manhood traits, but it's not that simple.

Iran's steadfast stand side by side with Russia shows who is the man in the global crowd and who are the weakling cowards.

Selling 64 or 240 SU-35 "not enough produced, I know" to Iran is very realistic and if Iran places orders for those jets, then rest assure they will get as many as they want. Plus, the planes will be upgraded/modified to state of the art technology along with many other military technologies that no nation has access to but Russia.

Not a mere opinion, its happening as we speak.
Don't get me wrong, I love to see Iranian made hi-tech/long range superiority fighters but due to lack of funds, the projects started slow in piecemeal fashion. That must be overcome, hopefully very soon. The Russian platform when updated with LR/robust AESA along with generation 5 electronics and sensors it will be the best aircraft in Iran's air force since the Grumman F-14 Tomcats, but much better. I hope they get at least 8 full squadrons including some from Russian military stocks if necessary to form that 8 squadrons of SU-35s force.
 

jauk

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Strategic weapon systems don't fit the methodology of Hay-Market barter deal to be measured in pennies or dollars my friend.

For Russia selling SU-35 to Iran nowadays is a strategic decision far outweighing pennies or dollars. It is a long term national security issue that Russia recognized during the war in Ukraine. Its true, the transaction benefits Iran, it also benefits Russia but on lesser scale. Iran will be a cornerstone of Russia's future dealings with regional and global issues because Iran shown its weight and influence as a prominent rising power.

For the Russians it became obvious & proven that Iran is nation that could be relied upon as an ally a hot-topic spoken about daily in the Russian parliament, political circles, Russian media, and by the Russian regular folks in a highly positive light. By assisting Russia, and showing friendship, Iran took a great political risk that no other nation dared to take and none will "except" Belarus but Belarus is a sister nation, a nation with similar culture, intertwined in shared history, ethnicity, and relion, while Iran is not . . .

Russia sold huge quantities of arms to China and India since 1960s "USSR & Russia". Despite the physical size of those two big bulky nations "almost 3 billion in total", but they are spineless and global jokes especially India which is ready to take advantage of the Ukraine war by gobbling Russian oil and grains in great quantities at fire sale prices, and yet as usual, never gutsy enough to announce any active support to anyone. India didn't transfer a single penny's worth of material to Russia while 95% of Indian media is against Russia. Chinese are not as a worthless cowards but they scores less than 3 points on the scale of 1:10 to India's ZERO "0:10" which seems to indicate three folds higher manhood traits, but it's not that simple.

Iran's steadfast stand side by side with Russia shows who is the man in the global crowd and who are the weakling cowards.

Selling 64 or 240 SU-35 "not enough produced, I know" to Iran is very realistic and if Iran places orders for those jets, then rest assure they will get as many as they want. Plus, the planes will be upgraded/modified to state of the art technology along with many other military technologies that no nation has access to but Russia.

Not a mere opinion, its happening as we speak.
Don't get me wrong, I love to see Iranian made hi-tech/long range superiority fighters but due to lack of funds, the projects started slow in piecemeal fashion. That must be overcome, hopefully very soon. The Russian platform when updated with LR/robust AESA along with generation 5 electronics and sensors it will be the best aircraft in Iran's air force since the Grumman F-14 Tomcats, but much better. I hope they get at least 8 full squadrons including some from Russian military stocks if necessary to form that 8 squadrons of SU-35s force.
Thanks. However, the fundamental question is, regardless of funds and tech, is 'air superiority' and payload delivery via expensive craft obsolete. I believe it is. Cheap strike with intelligent munitions are the future. Aren't we seeing this unfold before our eyes as we speak?
 
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Hack-Hook

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Strategic weapon systems don't fit the methodology of Hay-Market barter deal to be measured in pennies or dollars my friend.

For Russia selling SU-35 to Iran nowadays is a strategic decision far outweighing pennies or dollars. It is a long term national security issue that Russia recognized during the war in Ukraine. Its true, the transaction benefits Iran, it also benefits Russia but on lesser scale. Iran will be a cornerstone of Russia's future dealings with regional and global issues because Iran shown its weight and influence as a prominent rising power.

For the Russians it became obvious & proven that Iran is nation that could be relied upon as an ally a hot-topic spoken about daily in the Russian parliament, political circles, Russian media, and by the Russian regular folks in a highly positive light. By assisting Russia, and showing friendship, Iran took a great political risk that no other nation dared to take and none will "except" Belarus but Belarus is a sister nation, a nation with similar culture, intertwined in shared history, ethnicity, and relion, while Iran is not . . .

Russia sold huge quantities of arms to China and India since 1960s "USSR & Russia". Despite the physical size of those two big bulky nations "almost 3 billion in total", but they are spineless and global jokes especially India which is ready to take advantage of the Ukraine war by gobbling Russian oil and grains in great quantities at fire sale prices, and yet as usual, never gutsy enough to announce any active support to anyone. India didn't transfer a single penny's worth of material to Russia while 95% of Indian media is against Russia. Chinese are not as a worthless cowards but they scores less than 3 points on the scale of 1:10 to India's ZERO "0:10" which seems to indicate three folds higher manhood traits, but it's not that simple.

Iran's steadfast stand side by side with Russia shows who is the man in the global crowd and who are the weakling cowards.

Selling 64 or 240 SU-35 "not enough produced, I know" to Iran is very realistic and if Iran places orders for those jets, then rest assure they will get as many as they want. Plus, the planes will be upgraded/modified to state of the art technology along with many other military technologies that no nation has access to but Russia.

Not a mere opinion, its happening as we speak.
Don't get me wrong, I love to see Iranian made hi-tech/long range superiority fighters but due to lack of funds, the projects started slow in piecemeal fashion. That must be overcome, hopefully very soon. The Russian platform when updated with LR/robust AESA along with generation 5 electronics and sensors it will be the best aircraft in Iran's air force since the Grumman F-14 Tomcats, but much better. I hope they get at least 8 full squadrons including some from Russian military stocks if necessary to form that 8 squadrons of SU-35s force.
Russia is simply in no position to sell any aircraft if they build ant they need it to replace the aircraft they lost during this war
 

Piet

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we already have RD-33 and TF30-P-412A there is no need to do that and we are working on a turbofan engine , the problem is that the project don't have enough funds.
and our airforce decided they like N-156f fighter design

Strategic weapon systems don't fit the methodology of Hay-Market barter deal to be measured in pennies or dollars my friend.

For Russia selling SU-35 to Iran nowadays is a strategic decision far outweighing pennies or dollars. It is a long term national security issue that Russia recognized during the war in Ukraine. Its true, the transaction benefits Iran, it also benefits Russia but on lesser scale. Iran will be a cornerstone of Russia's future dealings with regional and global issues because Iran shown its weight and influence as a prominent rising power.

For the Russians it became obvious & proven that Iran is nation that could be relied upon as an ally a hot-topic spoken about daily in the Russian parliament, political circles, Russian media, and by the Russian regular folks in a highly positive light. By assisting Russia, and showing friendship, Iran took a great political risk that no other nation dared to take and none will "except" Belarus but Belarus is a sister nation, a nation with similar culture, intertwined in shared history, ethnicity, and relion, while Iran is not . . .

Russia sold huge quantities of arms to China and India since 1960s "USSR & Russia". Despite the physical size of those two big bulky nations "almost 3 billion in total", but they are spineless and global jokes especially India which is ready to take advantage of the Ukraine war by gobbling Russian oil and grains in great quantities at fire sale prices, and yet as usual, never gutsy enough to announce any active support to anyone. India didn't transfer a single penny's worth of material to Russia while 95% of Indian media is against Russia. Chinese are not as a worthless cowards but they scores less than 3 points on the scale of 1:10 to India's ZERO "0:10" which seems to indicate three folds higher manhood traits, but it's not that simple.

Iran's steadfast stand side by side with Russia shows who is the man in the global crowd and who are the weakling cowards.

Selling 64 or 240 SU-35 "not enough produced, I know" to Iran is very realistic and if Iran places orders for those jets, then rest assure they will get as many as they want. Plus, the planes will be upgraded/modified to state of the art technology along with many other military technologies that no nation has access to but Russia.

Not a mere opinion, its happening as we speak.
Don't get me wrong, I love to see Iranian made hi-tech/long range superiority fighters but due to lack of funds, the projects started slow in piecemeal fashion. That must be overcome, hopefully very soon. The Russian platform when updated with LR/robust AESA along with generation 5 electronics and sensors it will be the best aircraft in Iran's air force since the Grumman F-14 Tomcats, but much better. I hope they get at least 8 full squadrons including some from Russian military stocks if necessary to form that 8 squadrons of SU-35s force.
“In addressing the acquisition of Su-35 Flanker F’s as per Joe_Adam, he states that he would “love to see Iranian made hi-tech/long range superiority fighters but due to lack of funds, the projects started slow in piecemeal fashion. That must be overcome, hopefully very soon.”

I have for a substantial time studied the above and wish to ad my 2c worth to this discussion.

To this end I have included a shortcut to a drop box that contains a five part ‘paper’ in which I attempt to do just this.

These five parts amounts to 148MB though and are heavy on images plus explanatory text. It renders the best when opened in Word.

This paper would not have been possible without posts to Secret Projects (UK), and https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/iriaf-news-and-discussions.

 

sha ah

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After the war they could sell them. Iran is not in a huge hurry. If Iran gets a few dozen SU-35s in exchange for some drones/missiles and some cash, that would be a great deal. SU-35 has thrust vectoring. The F-5 even in the Iran-Iraq war, was a secondary aircraft delegated to support roles. F-5 is good for training or with modern components, with AWACS, you can maybe fly them low and sneak up behind opponents. Iran also needs AWACS and more satellites from Russia.

I don't know if you read the other thread but I read about a group of Chinese flanker pilots that went to Thailand to compete against the Royal Thai Air force Gripen pilots. The flanker pilots completely defeated the Gripen in close range combat. However the second day, they engaged in BVR and that's when the Gripens won decisively. It was because of two main reasons. One the Thai were more familiar with the terrain. Second, the Chinese pilots were said to easily fall into basic traps that the Thai pilots would set for them. They wouldn't really trained to think critically / think outside the box.

The whole Soviet doctrine is different from western doctrines in the sense that they have a set of mission parameters and must follow the mission to the letter. They basically don't have as much freedom of execution as western pilots. However that was a few years ago and since then the Chinese have changed their approach. The Russians though have stuck to their old ways and they don't get enough training hours. I think that's all going to change now after Ukraine.

Russia is simply in no position to sell any aircraft if they build ant they need it to replace the aircraft they lost during this war
 

Hack-Hook

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SU-35 has thrust vectoring.
what is the use of thrust vectoring in modern warfare, can you explain that to me .
considering that these days even an AIM-9 has the range beyond 40km and can pull more G than any fighter available . and the pilot don't even need to turn its aircraft toward enemy , he just need move his head to that direction.
I don't know if you read the other thread but I read about a group of Chinese flanker pilots that went to Thailand to compete against the Royal Thai Air force Gripen pilots. The flanker pilots completely defeated the Gripen in close range combat. However the second day, they engaged in BVR and that's when the Gripens won decisively. It was because of two main reasons. One the Thai were more familiar with the terrain. Second, the Chinese pilots were said to easily fall into basic traps that the Thai pilots would set for them. They wouldn't really trained to think critically / think outside the box.
Grippen C/D of Thailand don't have magical radar with range of 400km
they had a PS-05/A Mark 3 Pulse Doppler radar works in the 8–10 GHz band and has 1 kW energy output It is capable of detecting a fighter aircraft from 120 km distance and can see road traffic and count ships at anchor in a harbor at 70 km.
now why you think those Flankers were thrown out of the sky when artificial limitation on the Grippen removed ? very simple they come with two pod ALQ-TLS electronic countermeasures (ECM) pod and Digital Joint Reconnaissance Pod these gave them E-Warfare and battlefield capabilities that render everything flanker had useless . even Rafale pilots said that in wargame a Grippen can frighteningly near you without you become aware of them .

you can put the longest range missile and strongest engine on an airplane , it can be super maneuverable , but all that is useless if enemy can easily beat you in E-Warfare and that is the weakness of Russia , you can say its their Achilles Heel .



by the way its funny call kowsar an F-5 . do you knew the difference of radar and E/W capabilities of those two airplane ?are you aware of how much more information about battlefield the pilot have compared to an F-5
right now kowsar after f-14 have the strongest radar among Iran airplanes but there is one different F-14 do it by brute force and kowsar do it by finesse
 

Iraqi soldier

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The Iranians know what specifications a fighter-interceptor or bomber must have
Because they fought a war in which they used a fighter that has a long-range radar and a long-range air-to-air missile
And they saw the air power used by NATO and America in the two Gulf wars, which adopted electronic warfare and air defense suppression
So
They want an interception air force that works in conditions of confusion and has long-range radar and missiles
 

sahureka2

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F-5E this years Kenya Airforce day
16455208-kenyadefenceforceskdfdisplaysomeofthelethalcombatequipmentatlaikipiaairbase-mkv202211121140.jpg


16455206-kenyadefenceforceskdfdisplaysomeofthelethalcombatequipmentatlaikipiaairbase-mkv202211121142.jpg

are Iranian F-5Es also used in this configuration ?
 

applesauce

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I don't know if you read the other thread but I read about a group of Chinese flanker pilots that went to Thailand to compete against the Royal Thai Air force Gripen pilots. The flanker pilots completely defeated the Gripen in close range combat. However the second day, they engaged in BVR and that's when the Gripens won decisively. It was because of two main reasons. One the Thai were more familiar with the terrain. Second, the Chinese pilots were said to easily fall into basic traps that the Thai pilots would set for them. They wouldn't really trained to think critically / think outside the box.

The whole Soviet doctrine is different from western doctrines in the sense that they have a set of mission parameters and must follow the mission to the letter. They basically don't have as much freedom of execution as western pilots. However that was a few years ago and since then the Chinese have changed their approach. The Russians though have stuck to their old ways and they don't get enough training hours. I think that's all going to change now after Ukraine.

no.

china took old school su-27s with them (or rather, the j-11A)
it was very maneuverable like all flankers, and did well within visual range combat.
it got whipped in BVR, sensors and general situation awareness, it had nothing to do with doctrine or "thinking outside the box" .
china would take the j-10C to later exercises with thailand, where the j-10 proceeded to demolish gripens.

you make the general mistake that all westerners make about china, that china is just a poorer soviet union. china has never used soviet doctrines. china could not if they wanted, china for a long time was not the industrial giant that the soviets were, and their founding was very different, the soviets used a bunch of untrustworthy former imperial officers and soldiers along with masses of convicts and such and these required supervision and top heavy command. the PLA and the chinese red army before it did not, the PLA were fully trusted to take initiative in war and individual commanders and soldiers often made on the fly decisions in battle. its infantry tactics were such that even the us studied it. unit cohesion was immersively high, chinese units could take 90% casualties and continue to fight. and its not just on paper, in the korean war, plenty of units were bombed out but still defending their areas against numerically superior and better equipped american units, with numerous cases of entire units reduced to a few or even just one guy yet they continued to defend a hill rather than break and run . in the 62 war against india, individual soldiers got lost in the mountain but if a handful of friendlies found each other they would independently form small fire teams and continue to advanced the objective. the chinese have homed this over a long period of time, high command sets the overall objective or strategic goals, men on the ground do whatever tactically needed to get there.
 

Hack-Hook

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The maneuverability and this F-5 must be really reduced because it wears a large weight
bombing formation , the idea is they do the bombing and from base to target they use external fuel tanks and then they drop them and the bombs and voila they have an f-5 in interception formation with only two AIM-9 that can escape or engage incoming enemy
 

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