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sha ah

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Mar 2, 2018
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I don't think it was the design that bombed so much as issues with the engines. If they can resolve the engine problems or replace them then this plane can be viable since currently there are a dozen or so grounded in storage.

Anyways I'll believe it when I see the plane fly.

I would say they can try a miniature AWACS aircraft design based off this platform. If I'm not wrong, there was such a plan involving the HESA IrAn-140 before the design bombed.
 
Mar 8, 2021
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JF-17/FC-1 is a 100 % Chinese plane (distantly originating from an abandoned Mikayon-33 design), not even a single bolt in it comes from any other country other than Chinese companies linked to CATIC/AVIC
You do not understand Pakistani strategy for weapons development.
Al khalid tank was a joint project with China.After its complete development,we started indeginizing it.
Now its gun,FCS,thermal systems,etc. are of Pakistani origin.
https://www.dawn.com/news/621771/locally-produced-gun-delivered-to-hit-for-tanks

The experience learned from here helped us to develop 155mm artillery gun also

https://quwa.org/2021/08/30/pakistans-hit-develops-in-house-155-mm-artillery-gun-2/

Then we took our own root and developed AK-1.After it AK-2 is next in line.

Similarly,we used to import engines for our cruise Missiles but we have indiginized cruise Missiles engines also.

JF 17 is still under development project.But we
have started indiginizing it as well.We are producing AESA radar for in home.

https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/...an-moves-ahead-with-domestic-aesa-radar-deve/

Similarly we used to produce Falco UAV under liscence
But now we can produce more advanced UCAVs in home

SHAHPAR-II.jpg

Similarly,we acquired Milgem corvettes under TOT with IP rights from Turkey and now we are aiming for development of Figates in home.

So all in short,JF 17 can look simple CKD assembly but its base for development of our aviation industry.
With airborne radars development,we will have in house development of AWACS also.

And the journey will continue.
 

sha ah

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Mar 2, 2018
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Officially the JF-17 and Al-Khalid may be joint projects but realistically they're Chinese products. The fact of the matter is that China can build these products without Pakistan but not the other way around.

You do not understand Pakistani strategy for weapons development.
Al khalid tank was a joint project with China.After its complete development,we started indeginizing it.
Now its gun,FCS,thermal systems,etc. are of Pakistani origin.
https://www.dawn.com/news/621771/locally-produced-gun-delivered-to-hit-for-tanks

The experience learned from here helped us to develop 155mm artillery gun also

https://quwa.org/2021/08/30/pakistans-hit-develops-in-house-155-mm-artillery-gun-2/

Then we took our own root and developed AK-1.After it AK-2 is next in line.

Similarly,we used to import engines for our cruise Missiles but we have indiginized cruise Missiles engines also.

JF 17 is still under development project.But we
have started indiginizing it as well.We are producing AESA radar for in home.

https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/...an-moves-ahead-with-domestic-aesa-radar-deve/

Similarly we used to produce Falco UAV under liscence
But now we can produce more advanced UCAVs in home

View attachment 846643
Similarly,we acquired Milgem corvettes under TOT with IP rights from Turkey and now we are aiming for development of Figates in home.

So all in short,JF 17 can look simple CKD assembly but its base for development of our aviation industry.
With airborne radars development,we will have in house development of AWACS also.

And the journey will continue.
 
Mar 8, 2021
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Officially the JF-17 and Al-Khalid may be joint projects but realistically they're Chinese products. The fact of the matter is that China can build these products without Pakistan but not the other way around.
The fact is that we can build these on our own.
Sure components can come from china but we can integrate them into system on our own.
We acquired VT 4 tank from China but used our own main gun.
Saab builds Gripen fighter jet.Its engine is Ammerican now That does not mean Gripen is useless just because Sweden/Saab can't build Its own engines

Afterall we are not sanctioned and have global markete to buy subsystems from and then integrate them into our own system.

Another example is south Korea their kfx uses US engine.
We do not need to make every thing in house.
If we will try to make every thing in house,we will remain technologically behind our enemies thus risking our sovereignty.
 

mohsen

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Feb 26, 2012
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I would say they can try a miniature AWACS aircraft design based off this platform. If I'm not wrong, there was such a plan involving the HESA IrAn-140 before the design bombed.
As I said, if they plan to go with this speed, spending a decade to remove the seats and add a cargo door, then building an AWACS would take a century!
 

sha ah

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Mar 2, 2018
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There's a huge difference between using a foreign engine for a domestically designed product because of its superior quality, like the Gripen, as opposed to purchasing a product designed from another country, especially when most of the vital components of that product come from the same nation that designed it, like for example the VT-4.

The VT-4 is a Chinese product through and through and there's no denying it. Even the JF-17, China offered it to Iran in exchange for oil. It's really a Chinese product. Even if Pakistan license builds them or buys knock down kits, it's still a product that Pakistan could not possess without China.

I applaud Pakistan for striving towards self sufficiency in the military sector, but it's difficult for smaller nations like Pakistan or Iran, as opposed to the US or Russia or China for example, with massive military budgets and resources at their disposal. No doubt about it Pakistan has made progress but it will take time before Pakistan attains Autarky in the military sector.

On the other hand, this topic is debatable. I mean look at the new F-5 variants (Kowsar) that Iran builds. Supposedly close to 80% of the components are Iranian made, however the F-5 was of course designed by the US. So is it an Iranian or American product ? It's somewhat subjective but personally I believe that both variables have to be taken into consideration when deciding.

The fact is that we can build these on our own.
Sure components can come from china but we can integrate them into system on our own.
We acquired VT 4 tank from China but used our own main gun.
Saab builds Gripen fighter jet.Its engine is Ammerican now That does not mean Gripen is useless just because Sweden/Saab can't build Its own engines

Afterall we are not sanctioned and have global markete to buy subsystems from and then integrate them into our own system.

Another example is south Korea their kfx uses US engine.
We do not need to make every thing in house.
If we will try to make every thing in house,we will remain technologically behind our enemies thus risking our sovereignty.
 

drmeson

FULL MEMBER
Sep 2, 2016
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You do not understand Pakistani strategy for weapons development.
Al khalid tank was a joint project with China.After its complete development,we started indeginizing it.
Now its gun,FCS,thermal systems,etc. are of Pakistani origin.
https://www.dawn.com/news/621771/locally-produced-gun-delivered-to-hit-for-tanks

The experience learned from here helped us to develop 155mm artillery gun also

https://quwa.org/2021/08/30/pakistans-hit-develops-in-house-155-mm-artillery-gun-2/

Then we took our own root and developed AK-1.After it AK-2 is next in line.

Similarly,we used to import engines for our cruise Missiles but we have indiginized cruise Missiles engines also.

JF 17 is still under development project.But we
have started indiginizing it as well.We are producing AESA radar for in home.

https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/...an-moves-ahead-with-domestic-aesa-radar-deve/

Similarly we used to produce Falco UAV under liscence
But now we can produce more advanced UCAVs in home

View attachment 846643
Similarly,we acquired Milgem corvettes under TOT with IP rights from Turkey and now we are aiming for development of Figates in home.

So all in short,JF 17 can look simple CKD assembly but its base for development of our aviation industry.
With airborne radars development,we will have in house development of AWACS also.

And the journey will continue.

so what is non-chinese (or Pakistani) in FC-1? We can go from component to component starting from Radar and Avionics and ending at controls and propulsion. Here is my claim, every single component of FC-1 is designed/patented by Chinese companies that work in consortium with CATIC. It's a Chinese plane that got TOT'ed out by CATIC.
 
Mar 8, 2021
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so what is non-chinese (or Pakistani) in FC-1? We can go from component to component starting from Radar and Avionics and ending at controls and propulsion. Here is my claim, every single component of FC-1 is designed/patented by Chinese companies that work in consortium with CATIC. It's a Chinese plane that got TOT'ed out by CATIC.
All i said before
JF 17 is based on chinese/Russian subsystems
But we are developing AESA radar in home to replace Chinese radars
We are also developing HMD helmet for Thunder.
Its just start,we will indeginize it to large extent like our other weapons.
JF 17 is still on going project,its not completed yet.
 

drmeson

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Sep 2, 2016
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All i said before
JF 17 is based on chinese/Russian subsystems

Thank you for agreeing that FC-1 is an all-Chinese CATIC sub-companies consortium product that got TOT'ed out (purchased).

But we are developing AESA radar in home to replace Chinese radars

Not exactly. NRIET (another sub-company of CATIC) provided KLJ-7 is fitted on current FC-1. The future version already has KLJ-7A-AESA from same NRIET.

Its just start,we will indeginize it to large extent like our other weapons.
JF 17 is still on going project,its not completed yet.

Irrelevant to the discussion.
 

PersianNinja

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May 22, 2022
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As I said, if they plan to go with this speed, spending a decade to remove the seats and add a cargo door, then building an AWACS would take a century!
The footage we saw from the assembly line suggests they took the design back to the drawing board. This isn't simply some conversion of old fuselage and kits.

Once the base models are ready, it gets much simpler modifying them for specialized purposes. Building an AWACS won't take that much time now - it's more a matter of how much funding is given and the defence ministry is stingy with allocation.
 

drmeson

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Sep 2, 2016
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Guys have we ever seen any pic of Azarakhsh, Saegheh, or even our F-5E/F with Refuelling probe experimentation? I know for a fact that Azrakhsh's original plan included it like F-5EM.
 

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