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yavar

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A source in Iran has confirmed that Iran's new government and IRIAF have decided and completed the process to get a batch of JF-17 over the next 8 years, with upgraded engine.
What a nonsense every Iranians section in this forum has turned into trolling conquest.

The biggest BS is the JF-17 and Chinese jet purchase ,

With regard to Russia there is no Deal and I don’t think the Russians going to except Our terms of the deal so there is no Deal ,

delivery and then getting paid

I don’t know what moderators are doing in here, there is not single Iranian section that some foreign countries members have not turned into spamming and spreading nonsense
 

Blue In Green

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What a nonsense every Iranians section in this forum has turned into trolling conquest.

The biggest BS is the JF-17 and Chinese jet purchase ,

With regard to Russia there is no Deal and I don’t think the Russians going to except Our terms of the deal so there is no Deal ,

delivery and then getting paid

I don’t know what moderators are doing in here, there is not single Iranian section that some foreign countries members have not turned into spamming and spreading nonsense
So Bagheri's visit was just for show?

I mean, there must be some inkling of truth to the reports coming out no?
 

SalarHaqq

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So Bagheri's visit was just for show?

I mean, there must be some inkling of truth to the reports coming out no?
Coming to think of it, the signed documents sardar Bagheri mentioned could have been something like Memoranda of Understanding, ie preliminary contracts where parties agree on something in principle but require further negotiations to reach a definitive deal.

Other theoretical possibility: Bagheri's successive references to contract(s) being signed on the one hand and to aircrafts and helicopters on the other, were in fact disjointed statements, and what was concluded was simply a routine military cooperation agreement, not a weapons deal.

Who knows.
 
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New Recruit

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What a nonsense every Iranians section in this forum has turned into trolling conquest.

The biggest BS is the JF-17 and Chinese jet purchase ,

With regard to Russia there is no Deal and I don’t think the Russians going to except Our terms of the deal so there is no Deal ,

delivery and then getting paid

I don’t know what moderators are doing in here, there is not single Iranian section that some foreign countries members have not turned into spamming and spreading nonsense
@yavar, Is it the key question?

One thing is a deal signed, and a very different thing is planes DELIVERED to customer.

I think Iran will NOT allow same old cases to happen again, and let again Russia eats Iran's money without fulfilling the delivering of purchases.

Maybe you are right anr Iran wants FIRST the planes in Iran, and THEN paying the money.
But that is HARD to agree for Russia!!!
IMHO, no fighter deal will be completed, and Iran will follow its own path of developing own fighter.

Having modern avionics, moders EW suite, modern radars, modern A2A missiles... this fighter, EVEN WITH A TURBOJET ENGINE! would be well capable.
No need to fall in the TURBOFAN trap
, designed from and for the Western-Russia-China military industrial complexes, not for countries like Iran (economics, sanctions, time to production, urgent needs for today not 20 years in future...)

@yavar, what do you think about that?
Is Iran in the advanced turbojet fighter (with AL-21 or similar engine)?
Is Iran in the turbofan trap, with RD-33 or similar engine?
 

Dariush the Great

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Such dreams......

China did not even agree on joint venture manufacturing of VT-4 tanks with Pakistan, when they were already collaborating on Al-Khalid tank.

Russia never ever given their data link technology to India even when they were on best of terms & India was procuring $9 billion worth of arms every year from Russia.

Russia declined to share the PAK-FA tech with India even though it was a collaboration project between India & Russia.

Pakistan is trying to negotiate favorable terms for J-10 aircrafts for past 10 years now, not even including any TOT or local manufacturing and Chinese are not budging even on purchase price per unit.

and people think that China or Russia would just give away their 4.5 gen tech to Iran just like that..... I am just speechless.
Pakistan and India do not have the geostrategic advantage that Iran has. Nor the oil and gas resources.
 
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Pakistan and India do not have the geostrategic advantage that Iran has. Nor the oil and gas resources.
But Russia and China can buy Oil and gas as they have cash so they don't need to share technology.
Russia has 1,688 trillion cubic feet (Tcf) of proven gas reserves as of 2017, ranking 1st in the world and accounting for about 24% of the world's total natural gas reserves in the world.so they don't need to share technology with Iran.they can just buy from you.
 

Sineva

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Coming to think of it, the signed documents sardar Bagheri mentioned could have been something like Memoranda of Understanding, ie preliminary contracts where parties agree on something in principle but require further negotiations to reach a definitive deal.

Other theoretical possibility: Bagheri's successive references to contract(s) being signed on the one hand and to aircrafts and helicopters on the other, were in fact disjointed statements, and what was concluded was simply a routine military cooperation agreement, not a weapons deal.

Who knows.
A very good point,we saw plenty of useless mou signed during rouhanis tenure that ultimately went nowhere.
These things have no force in law,they are not the equivalent of a signed binding legal contract.
and the russians werent particularly reliable even when it came to honoring binding legal contracts that they`d signed,ie the s300 debacle being the most well known,but not the only case sadly.
 

925boy

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But Russia and China can buy Oil and gas as they have cash so they don't need to share technology.
Russia has 1,688 trillion cubic feet (Tcf) of proven gas reserves as of 2017, ranking 1st in the world and accounting for about 24% of the world's total natural gas reserves in the world.so they don't need to share technology with Iran.they can just buy from you.
Because Russia sees Iran as competition, at least regionally.
 

OldTwilight

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Well , Russians want to have Iran as a card for next years , now they can make contract and negotiate with western and arabs about giving Iran anything or not ...
this time they won't make any mistake and will sign a contract that they will be able to cancel it without any consequence ( they have their lessons from S-300 contracts )

even if they give iran anything , they won't support these fighters or will give their downgraded version which in mean time they will negotiate with western , israeils and arabs to buy the fighters specifications ...
 

Blue In Green

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Coming to think of it, the signed documents sardar Bagheri mentioned could have been something like Memoranda of Understanding, ie preliminary contracts where parties agree on something in principle but require further negotiations to reach a definitive deal.

Other theoretical possibility: Bagheri's successive references to contract(s) being signed on the one hand and to aircrafts and helicopters on the other, were in fact disjointed statements, and what was concluded was simply a routine military cooperation agreement, not a weapons deal.

Who knows.
Historical evidence would overwhelmingly point to this entire visit being nothing but formalities and false (misconstrued) promises, but most likely (like with other such similar occurrences). It's a fiasco that was blown out of proportion by every Tom, Dick and Harry who wanted to make a name for themselves by being the first to "leak vital information about an arms deal" regarding Iran. Not the first time such a thing happened, and it will surely not be the last.

Getting really sick of Russia (not an ally), but even more sick of misplaced Iranian optimism..... Iran is and for the foreseeable future, will be alone. So all these talks of arms embargoes, weapons contracts and acquisition of new equipment from foreign countries is a bunch of hot-air.

Please people, get a grip and get a grip fast.

If this actually happens (remote possibility), then we witnessed a rare-event not a normal transaction.
 

EvilWesteners

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What a nonsense every Iranians section in this forum has turned into trolling conquest.

The biggest BS is the JF-17 and Chinese jet purchase ,

With regard to Russia there is no Deal and I don’t think the Russians going to except Our terms of the deal so there is no Deal ,

delivery and then getting paid

I don’t know what moderators are doing in here, there is not single Iranian section that some foreign countries members have not turned into spamming and spreading nonsense
Yavar,

Your comments above are totally uncalled for.

FIRST ... the news I heard was from a source who is in Iran, we worked together at RR, and he is known to be a great source for Iran's technical electronic documentation and archive expert, at the moment, back home. He said he had some knowledge regarding such purchase. Whether you agree or not, do pay your respect. Otherwise, you will get none for your pugnacious discourteous reply.

So, try to control your arrogance and do not insult a man like him. It was based on his contacts in Iran.

And you don't know for sure either, one way or the other. Check your ego outside before you come into this forum and instigate a verbal conflict.

SECOND, learn to READ and COMPREHEND.

I was asking to see if anyone had any sources that can CONFIRM or not. If your English is poor and you cannot comprehend what that is, then go ahead and ask for help so someone can translate that for you.

This reply is not about being in any way the result of your offensive behavior. You are nobody to me, nor do I have any respect for you, after your bellicose, ignorant, and arrogant reply to someone who is simply asking a question, so you can ride your high worthless ego. It simply shows your level of character.

What I am displeased with, is your utter ignorance and conceit that makes you potentially talk to anyone else in this forum in such a way.

Don't do it again.

Do not talk to anyone else here with such degree of arrogance and mindless bluster.

AND, I am not "foreign". I am an Iranian.
 
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Blue In Green

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Yavar,

Your comments above are totally uncalled for.

FIRST ... the news I heard was from a source who is in Iran, we worked together at RR, and he is known to be a great source for Iran's technical electronic documentation and archive expert, at the moment, back home. He said he had some knowledge regarding such purchase. Whether you agree or not, do pay your respect. Otherwise, you will get none for your pugnacious discourteous reply.

So, try to control your arrogance and do not insult a man like him. It was based on his contacts in Iran.

And you don't know for sure either, one way or the other. Check your ego outside before you come into this forum and instigate a verbal conflict.

SECOND, learn to READ and COMPREHEND.

I was asking to see if anyone had any sources that can CONFIRM or not. If your English is poor and you cannot comprehend what that is, then go ahead and ask for help so someone can translate that for you.

This reply is not about being in any way the result of your offensive behavior. You are nobody to me, nor do I have any respect for you, after your bellicose, ignorant, and arrogant reply to someone who is simply asking a question, so you can ride your high worthless ego. It simply shows your level of character.

What I am displeased with, is your utter ignorance and conceit that makes you potentially talk to anyone else in this forum in such a way.

Don't do it again.

Do not talk to anyone else here with such degree of arrogance and mindless bluster.
I think we're all better off considering the practicality of such an arrangement in the first place since getting any sort of concrete "insider" information or confirmation on such a deal is a scant possibility anyways. To be concise here, it's not in Russia's best interest for Iran to complete their conventional military stanch by having them field top-of-line Russian fighters. Maybe some gimped version but Su-35s, Su-30s, AWACS, etc... Would propel Iranian regional power to new-heights. Iran is already so strong, they'd be that much more stronger and the region/world will blame Russia for it (something they know full-well if a deal gets inked). Risking future Russian plans for diplomacy, arms deals, econ deals and the like. They want a stable Iran, not a powerful Iran.

Sorry that Yavar offended you, but I don't think that was his intention. His position (after having interacted with him for many years) has been one of utter-confidence (whether founded or not) and that leads to his posts usually coming off as rude, arrogant and condescending but I doubt it's intentionally malicious. To him, any sort of reliance on outside powers for weapons, especially vital ones, is a no go and anyone who supports such an idea just doesn't get it. This isn't the first time he has responded to someone in this manner regarding the topic of foreign weapons acquisition.

Not trying to cover for him per-say, just wanted to give my two-cents on the matter. Also English isn't his first-language so it might be best not to take what he says too seriously. You know, lost in translation and all that lol.

Idk though, Iran's Air-force has been such a point of contention for people interested in Iranian military affairs as so much pride, misconception, ignorance (amongst other things), have been caught up in the conversation.
 
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EvilWesteners

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Wonder why people won't get tired of these stories about Iran and jf-17.
Honestly it's get really boring.
It appears, as if you are directing this regarding my post requesting any information, others may have regarding JF-17.

I cannot contemplate the mindset that finds it so disturbing that someone is asking if anyone has any sources or can/cannot confirm something?

Why would this ruffle any feathers? Is it sacrilegious to ask if anyone has any sources regarding a subject?

What is going on with some of the people here?

It was a question to see if anyone has any information, or not. That's it.

simple.
 

EvilWesteners

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I think we're all better off considering the practicality of such an arrangement in the first place since getting any sort of concrete "insider" information or confirmation on such a deal is a scant possibility anyways. To be concise here, it's not in Russia's interest for Iran to complete their military stanch by having them field top-of-line Russian fighters. Maybe some gimped version but Su-35s, Su-30s, AWACS, etc... Would propel Iranian regional power to new-heights. Iran is already so strong, they'd be that much more stronger and the region/world will blame Russia for it (something they know full-well if a deal gets inked).

Sorry that Yavar offended you, but I don't think that was his intention. His position (after having interacted with him for many years) has been one of utter-confidence (whether founded or not) and that leads to his posts usually coming off as rude, arrogant and condescending but I doubt it's intentionally malicious. To him, any sort of reliance on outside powers for weapons, especially vital ones, is a no go and anyone who supports such an idea just doesn't get it. This isn't the first time he has responded to someone in this manner regarding the topic of foreign weapons acquisition.

Not trying to cover for him per-say, just wanted to give my two-cents on the matter. Also English isn't his first-language so it might be best not to take what he says too seriously. You know, lost in translation and all that lol.

Idk though, Iran's Air-force has been such a point of contention for people interested in Iranian military affairs as so much pride, misconception, ignorance (amongst other things), have been caught up in the conversation.
Thank you Blue.

I am not offended personally, he does not know me, nor do I know him, nor wish to after his bluster.

I DO NOT WANT this forum, as little as we Iranians have to reach each other and share perspectives, to be convoluted into a mindless stage of ignorance and conceit, with ego and arrogance bashing people senselessly. Sometimes I read replies, and all I can think of is ... "did that person read the post carefully? cause it doesn't seem to me the reply is anything to do with what the post was really trying to say".

I would like everyone here to be respectful of each other, and come together and stand together and share knowledge and help elevate each other. Otherwise, I have much better things to do than to be part of yet another Iranian-bashing feast by anger-tantrum ADHD characters.

Regarding "utter-confidence", let me shed some light on this for you. The BETTER AND MORE KNOWLEDGEABLE someone is at what they do, the more HUMBLE they are. Arrogance is a sign of a weak character, and weak characters never develop the mental structure to grow to a height that deserves utter confidence or respect. It is what many people in the military call, FAKE CONFIDENCE PROJECTION of a flawed, weakling character.

Thanks Blue.
 
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