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Darius77

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Wonder why people won't get tired of these stories about Iran and jf-17.
Honestly it's get really boring.
I don't believe any of these speculations are worthy of even a comment. Iran does not need anymore 3.5 generation planes. We are already making the lightweight KOWSAR which is better. Iran is negotiating with Russia and China for J10 or SU-35 but no firm deal yet.


Iran starts mass-producing locally designed Kowsar fighter jet | Hassan  Rouhani News | Al Jazeera770 × 513


Kowsar fighter jet is a fourth-generation fighter aircraft designed and manufactured by state-owned Iran Aviation Industries Organization (IAIO). It is the first fighter jet developed in Iran.


The development of Kowsar fighter aircraft has gained much more significance due to an arms embargo imposed by the US.

Designed to upgrade and strengthen the aerial defence capabilities of Iran, the aircraft is deployed by the Iran Army and Iran Air Force. It can also be used to support the training activities of fighter pilots.


The fighter jet replaces Iran’s age-old fighter aircraft, which were imported from the US and Russia. It also reduces Iran’s dependence on foreign countries for defence imports.


Three Kowsar fighter jets were delivered to Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force in June 2020.

Kowsar fighter jet development details

Kowsar’s development began in 2009 and the first prototype was exhibited at the MAKS 2017 international air show held at Zhukovsky international airport, Moscow, Russia, in July 2017. It is designed to perform close air support (CAS) and light attack operations.


The fully developed version of the aircraft was officially unveiled by Iran Aircraft Manufacturing Industries Company, an affiliate of IACO in August 2018. The fighter jet demonstrated its capabilities during its maiden flight in the same month.


A new production line for the manufacturing of Kowsar has been set up at Iran Aircraft Manufacturing Industries Company. Full-scale production of the aircraft commenced with the inauguration ceremony of the production line in November 2018. The aircraft flew over Tehran during the military parade at Iran’s annual National Army Day in April 2019.
Iran boosting production of indigenous Kowsar fighterjets | Fighter jets,  Iran, Iran air736 × 414
 

SalarHaqq

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Iran is negotiating with Russia and China for J10 or SU-35 but no firm deal yet.
May I ask whether you'd have a source for this? Since Sardar Bagheri explicitly stated that contracts had been concluded consecutive to the lifting of the arms embargo a year ago. And Russia didn't deny it. So it's safe to assume that there is a firm deal already.

Now whether or not the Russians are going to abide by it and when is another matter. But I trust the Iranian official will not be spreading outright disinformation.

When it comes to China on the other hand, there's no information from officials of either side about any talks or deals, so everything's possible.
 
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Darius77

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May I ask whether you have a source for this? Because Sardar Bagheri explicitly stated that contracts had been concluded consecutive to the lifting of the arms embargo a year ago. And Russia didn't deny it. So it's safe to assume that there is a firm deal already.

Now whether or not the Russians are going to abide by it and when is another matter. But I trust the Iranian official will not be spreading outright disinformation.

When it comes to China on the other hand, there's no information from officials of either side about any talks or deals, so everything's possible.
I have not seen any official confirmation in the usual reputable sources like SIPRI, Janes etc. If there is a confirmed Iranian government announcement then it is credible. Iran acknowledged the S-300 deal officially, and so did Russia. Buying fighter jets is a very major deal and can not remain secret for too long. I hope it goes through but till then it is best to wait and see what eventuates.

Personally, I believe Iran should go for a SU-30/35 and J-10 mix and also technology transfer. Iranian technical infrastructure is now quite capable of co-producing a 4th or even 5th generation aircraft. The 40 or so upgraded SU-22 are also a good interim arrangement for ground attack capability.
Sukhoi Su 22 High Resolution Stock Photography and Images - Alamy1300 × 957
Sukhoi Su-22UM - Iran - Revolutionary Guard Air Force | Aviation Photo  #6014651 | Airliners.net 1000 × 679
ArtStation - Sukhoi Su-22, HDI VFX1920 × 1080
 
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Dariush the Great

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May I ask whether you'd have a source for this? Since Sardar Bagheri explicitly stated that contracts had been concluded consecutive to the lifting of the arms embargo a year ago. And Russia didn't deny it. So it's safe to assume that there is a firm deal already.

Now whether or not the Russians are going to abide by it and when is another matter. But I trust the Iranian official will not be spreading outright disinformation.

When it comes to China on the other hand, there's no information from officials of either side about any talks or deals, so everything's possible.
I know that Bagheri said this but the fact that there is barely any other information is already suspicious unless there is a agreement to keep quiet on the matter. Iranian media is usually quick with leaking.
I have not seen any official confirmation in the usual reputable sources like SIPRI, Janes etc. If there is a confirmed Iranian government announcement then it is credible. Iran acknowledged the S-300 deal officially, and so did Russia. Buying fighter jets is a very major deal and can not remain secret for too long. I hope it goes through but till then it is best to wait and see what eventuates.

Personally, I believe Iran should go for a SU-30/35 and J-10 mix and also technology transfer. Iranian technical infrastructure is now quite capable of co-producing a 4th or even 5th generation aircraft. The 40 or so upgraded SU-22 are also a good interim arrangement for ground attack capability.
Sukhoi Su 22 High Resolution Stock Photography and Images - Alamy1300 × 957
View attachment 786619 1000 × 679
ArtStation - Sukhoi Su-22, HDI VFX1920 × 1080
Anything less than Su-35S and local production lines (engine designs, information sharing etc) will be useless. This is the first major arms deal in over 30 years.. we have to make the IRIAF one of the top air forces in the world again. Having said that, i doubt that the Russians are going to risk their ties with Israel and the US to provide Iran with sensitive tech. These Russians are unreliable. Their actions have proven this.
 
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Darius77

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I know that Bagheri said this but the fact that there is barely any other information is already suspicious unless there is a agreement to keep quiet on the matter. Iranian media is usually quick with leaking.

Anything less than Su-35S and local production lines (engine designs, information sharing etc) will be useless. This is the first major arms deal in over 30 years.. we have to make the IRIAF one of the top air forces in the world again. Having said that, i doubt that the Russians are going to risk their ties with Israel and the US to provide Iran with sensitive tech. These Russians are unreliable. Their actions have proven this.
Could not agree with you more. The problem with Russia is that there is fragmented government and a lot of Zionist influence. They have even wavered in Ukraine and let the US and NATO puppets turn it into a base. Secondly, the Russians are no longer a USSR type "superpower" albeit a hollow one and are afraid of growing Iranian and Turkish influence in the Caucasus, which were Turk and Persian lands anyway. However, a truncated Russia of barely 140 million diverse people should think of Iran as a steady and powerful ally and the gatekeeper of Russia's weak southern flank. The US defeat in Afghanistan has dangers for Russia as well considering their restless Muslim population. A strong moderate Iran is in Russian interest. Hopefully, Shoigu and the GRU are better strategic thinkers and will support military cooperation and deals with Iran.
 

SalarHaqq

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I have not seen any official confirmation in the usual reputable sources like SIPRI, Janes etc. If there is a confirmed Iranian government announcement than it is credible. Iran acknowledged the S-300 deal officially. Buying fighter jets is a very major deal and can not remain secret for too long. I hope it goes through but till then it is best to wait and see what eventuates.
There is an official Iranian statement indeed.

See here (quote from the Tehran Times news report citing general Bagheri, Chief of Staff of the Armed Forces - the most senior military position barring the commander in chief ie the Supreme Leader himself):

Bagheri himself said upon his arrival in Russia that he will pursue the implementation of an arms deal for purchasing fighter jets, training jets, and combat helicopters from Russia. During a meeting with Iranian experts at the Iranian embassy in Moscow, the senior general pointed out that the deal had been signed in the aftermath of the lifting of a UN arms embargo on Iran in October last year.

Link: https://www.tehrantimes.com/news/466173/Iran-embarks-on-military-diplomacy

Personally, I believe Iran should go for a SU-30/35 and J-10 mix and also technology transfer. Iranian technical infrastructure is now quite capable of co-producing a 4th or even 5th generation aircraft. The 40 or so upgraded SU-22 are also a good interim arrangement for ground attack capability.

View attachment 786619
That's also what I evoked as a hypothesis in a comment a couple of months ago. Depending on numbers of fighters ordered, Su-30/-35 and J-10 could replace F-4, F-1, Mig-29 and some of the types received from Iraq. The IRGCAF isn't going to get rid of its refurbished Su-22's. Tomcats as well will surely be maintained in service for as long as they can be kept operational. I'm no expert but the Su-24 might have some characteristics that warrant continued use even in the eventuality of the cited procurements (long range interdiction strike with low altitude flight). I don't know about the F-5. Given that Iran's producing local derivatives and given its light weight and the possibility to use it as a trainer, I guess they would keep them too.

However I'm not sure huge spendings would be rational right now given economic conditions. Furthermore a major procurement of fighters would not fit into Iran's defence doctrine. Perhaps was the latter amended to some extent, or maybe a fully revived air force does actually not contradict the doctrine if employed in a specific, corresponding manner. Then there's the risk that such a move would discourage domestic efforts to develop fighter jets (notice I'm referring to large procurements in this regard, not limited numbers).

I found it interesting to put into perspective the views expressed on this subject by regular and knowledgeable Iranian users. The way I see it, it would seem that there are four types of approaches to the question (more or less):

* Skeptics who would tend to advise against any purchase of fighter jets at this point.

* Users who, while fully endorsing and commending Iran's missile-based asymmetric doctrine, would still consider a limited order - especially of heavy interceptors rather than medium weight multirole fighters, as a useful and cost-effective enough complement to Iran's remaining weaponry. Including because it would boost domestic technological advancement in the field of aircraft design, especially if ToT is included in the deal (with a special focus on engine tech, the primary "bottleneck").

* Those with a more accommodating stance towards airpower in the Iranian context, who would welcome a more consequent acquisition of fighters to replace Iran's present fleet in numbers.

* Same as above, but conditioning any such voluminous order on transfer on technology.

- - - - -

I know that Bagheri said this but the fact that there is barely any other information is already suspicious unless there is a agreement to keep quiet on the matter. Iranian media is usually quick with leaking.

Anything less than Su-35S and local production lines (engine designs, information sharing etc) will be useless. This is the first major arms deal in over 30 years.. we have to make the IRIAF one of the top air forces in the world again. Having said that, i doubt that the Russians are going to risk their ties with Israel and the US to provide Iran with sensitive tech. These Russians are unreliable. Their actions have proven this.
I've concurred time and again that there's a chance the deal won't materialize, no question about that. But signed deal there definitely is. Surely Iran's highest ranking military person isn't going to issue a blatant untruth on the subject. That in itself (ie an existing, finalized deal) was dismissed as unrealistic by many observers, yet here we are.

As for what would make sense for Iran to order from Russia, and what place the air force should have considering Iran's concrete needs and requirements, a variety of views have been expressed so far. I tried to present a schematic breakdown of these standpoints above. Personally, I'm more convinced by the asymmetric approach. It has successfully preserved Iran from aggression by the sole superpower for the past decades. However, I think a limited order even of Su-30's might prove beneficial including when it comes to the domestic industry. Just my thoughts.
 
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jauk

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Not true at all, SU-35, J-31, SU-57, J-20 all have technologies that Iranian defense contractors and military complex would LOVE to see up close and understand.

It would go LIGHT YEARS in advancing Iran’s knowledge of modern cutting edge fighter jet production, just like Rq-170 advanced Iran’s drone tech by a decade.
Cool. Then we will need a couple of each. Not fleets or squadrons. Regardless, what you say is not true at all, there is nothing in these the Iranians don't know about -- don't forget sensitive hardware won't be delivered by the provider. It's the tooling, machining, and manufacturization that Iran needs ...not the actual product. Perhaps the price of that means buying a dozen more craft than actually needed. My hope is the conversations do not dwell on the bells and whistles but on the ToT.
 
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Nevsky

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Having said that, i doubt that the Russians are going to risk their ties with Israel and the US to provide Iran with sensitive tech. These Russians are unreliable. Their actions have proven this.
Not really, my friend, theres a difference between Russian Federation from the years before 2013 and the Russian Federation now. The illusions about some kind of a good relations with the USA are long gone, noone in the Kremlin believes in those stuff anymore. I doubt that someone in Moscow is willing to sacrifice a potential close alliance with Iran in the name of Israel or USA.

Could not agree with you more. The problem with Russia is that there is fragmented government and a lot of Zionist influence. They have even wavered in Ukraine and let the US and NATO puppets turn it into a base. Secondly, the Russians are no longer a USSR type "superpower" albeit a hollow one and are afraid of growing Iranian and Turkish influence in the Caucasus, which were Turk and Persian lands anyway. However, a truncated Russia of barely 140 million diverse people should think of Iran as a steady and powerful ally and the gatekeeper of Russia's weak southern flank. The US defeat in Afghanistan has dangers for Russia as well considering their restless Muslim population. A strong moderate Iran is in Russian interest. Hopefully, Shoigu and the GRU are better strategic thinkers and will support military cooperation and deals with Iran.
Theres no such a thing as a government in the RF, its all about Putin, he is everything and he controls anything, theres no opposition, the so called one in the Federal Assembly is a complete joke and is doing what Putin wants it to do. The other opposition is barley surviving, almost all of its leaders were thrown away from the country in the last months, the one who refused to move out are in jail. So Im not really sure what are you talking about when you talk about Zionist influence.

There are no US or NATO troops in Ukraine at the moment, on the other hand its a base for an anti-Russian hysteria, no doubt about that. Its true that Putin abandoned the people in Odessa, Kharkov and even Donetsk and Lugansk and he did it because he was scared about the consequences for his regime. He took the risk and took Crimea, but when Donetsk, Luhansk and Kharkov were about to do the same referendum, he told them to stop, the people in Kharkov gave up, the ones in Donetsk didnt and you see where they are today. Putin wants to rule the country with the economy being as stable as possible, so the people are not too upset about him and his politics and keep believing that he is the only one from the 150 millions that is fit to rule. If he actually annexed the Southeast part of Ukraine, which is around 250 000 km2 into RF no one in the world would accept that. Russian economy couldnt survive it, his regime couldnt survive it either.

I dont think that Turkey has a real influence in Caucasus. Erdogan and Aliev are friends and thats it, no one knows what will happen when one of them is gone. Few years ago Aliev said that if NATO help them on Karabakh they will join NATO, if CSTO helps them, they will join it. I dont really believe in the azeri-turks brotherhood, when their two presidents are gone they will both turn upside down.

As for Iran, I cant see a rival between Moscow and Teheran in the region, our countries have a good relation, we are both friends with Armenia. The experience and the bonds that were build in the Syrian conflict are really important and will help a lot in the future. I do agree that we can only benefit if Iran is strong, rich and stable. Neither of us cant go one on one against NATO, GCC or Israel in the region, so I think RF and Iran need each other to materialize our politics in the region...
 
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jauk

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Not really, my friend, theres a difference between Russian Federation from the years before 2013 and the Russian Federation now. The illusions about some kind of a good relations with the USA are long gone, noone in the Kremlin believes in those stuff anymore. I doubt that someone in Moscow is willing to sacrifice a potential close alliance with Iran in the name of Israel or USA.


Theres no such a thing as a government in the RF, its all about Putin, he is everything and he controls anything, theres no opposition, the so called one in the Federal Assembly is a complete joke and is doing what Putin wants it to do. The other opposition is barley surviving, almost all of its leaders were thrown away from the country in the last months, the one who refused to move out are in jail. So Im not really sure what are you talking about when you talk about Zionist influence.

There are no US or NATO troops in Ukraine at the moment, on the other hand its a base for an anti-Russian hysteria, no doubt about that. Its true that Putin abandoned the people in Odessa, Kharkov and even Donetsk and Lugansk and he did it because he was scared about the consequences for his regime. He took the risk and took Crimea, but when Donetsk, Luhansk and Kharkov were about to do the same referendum, he told them to stop, the people in Kharkov gave up, the ones in Donetsk didnt and you see where they are today. Putin wants to rule the country with the economy being as stable as possible, so the people are not too upset about him and his politics and keep believing that he is the only one from the 150 millions that is fit to rule. If he actually annexed the Southeast part of Ukraine, which is around 250 000 km2 into RF no one in the world would accept that. Russian economy couldnt survive it, his regime couldnt survive it either.

I dont think that Turkey has a real influence in Caucasus. Erdogan and Aliev are friends and thats it, no one knows what will happen when one of them is gone. Few years ago Aliev said that if NATO help them on Karabakh they will join NATO, if CSTO helps them, they will join it. I dont really believe in the azeri-turks brotherhood, when their two presidents are gone they will both turn upside down.

As for Iran, I cant see a rival between Moscow in Teheran in the region, our countries have a good relation, we are both friends with Armenia. The experience and the bonds that were build in the Syrian conflict are really important and will help a lot in the future. I do agree that we can only benefit if Iran is strong, rich and stable. Neither of us cant go one on one against NATO, GCC or Israel in the region, so I think RF and Iran need each other to materialize our politics in the region...
Well said. I agree. Of course there are naysayers in both camps. However, I see a strategic partnership is mutually beneficial. What's good is that, unlike in the western camp, this partnership will be based on cold calculation rather than some spurious religio-social basis which will be neither enduring nor effective. China is part of this calculation too. Iran today is a 'peer' power--better partners than not. The question remains with Turkey...hopefully they will come to their senses.
 
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925boy

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Over next 8 years? Amazing....a Iran JF-17 4th Gen fighter will be going up against America’s 6th Gen fighter, next gen B-2, and next gen B-1.
Why should Iran worry too much when US already has so much and still got beat by rag tag taliban?

I have to warn all of you hyping up US and ISraeli "military technology"....the more tech they have, the more they lose their wars. FACT! Over reliance on military technology usually leads to losses, because that also leads to under reliance on other critical factors that affect war outcomes.

White man is just getting more and more scared to fight and die....for something he might not even see.
 
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military technology"....the more tech they have, the more they lose their wars.
Had the world listened to you 😹.

Man they have Russia and China to compete on world stage with their military supperiority.
Why US can sanction us every now and then.well because they have worked really hard to achieve this level.
Watch their movies level,here our movies are not passing from love stories,they are preparing their generations to rule in space.

Hell their movies are inspiring our students also.Their are many cases in Pakistan universities where students worked on some technology because of inspiration from Hollywood sci fiction movies.
 

TheImmortal

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Anything less than Su-35S and local production lines (engine designs, information sharing etc) will be useless.

There is a greater chance that Rouhani and Zarif get married then your statement coming true.

Iran asked for small amount of SU-35 and possible limited SU-30 tech transfer and was told that not only would they not supply SU-35 or SU-30.....No ToT and the best fighter they could buy was SU-22 or SU-27.

That a few years maybe more and it was exactly like Bagheri trip now. I remember it the Generals went to Russia and said they were interested in fighter jets and then nothing was heard of again despite the spin Iran gave afterwards. Rumors came out that Russia balked at any significant fighter jet being sold to Iran.

So if Russia even gives us the old AL-21 engine designs, blueprints, material/turbine fabrication tech, etc etc you would literally have to thank Russia for the rest of your life that’s how huge it would. So forget about AL-31 (SU-30) or AL-41 (SU-35) because there is zero chance Russia gives away its premier engine tech to some “brown” people country.
 

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