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SalarHaqq

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This is interesting,according to this..upon arival in Moscov,Bagheri said that His trip is follow up of the arms deal signed with Russia after embargo is lifted in UN last year


Here is article from Tehran news
Based on UN Security Council Resolution 2231, the arms embargo against Iran ended in October 2020.


"This trip is taking place at the beginning of the thirteenth administration, and Mr. Raisi's administration has a specific look to the East and Asian countries, and also the membership of the Islamic Republic of Iran in the Shanghai Pact is an important event, and certainly the cooperation between the Islamic Republic of Iran and Russia will be further developed in this regard," Baqeri stated.


Major General Baqeri was visiting Moscow upon invitation by Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu.


"We are cooperating with the Armed Forces of Russia, and in recent years this cooperation has expanded further. At this juncture, my visit is at the invitation of the Russian Minister of Defense. In addition to the bilateral military issues that we have and should pursue, the issue of Afghanistan is one of the issues that will be specifically discussed by the two sides," Baqeri said upon his arrival in Moscow.


The top general stated that the events in Afghanistan would definitely affect the countries of the region, including the Islamic Republic of Iran, the Russian Federation, and other countries, and these issues would be raised during the trip, Fars News reported.


The Chief of Staff of the Armed Forces said Iran and Russia have been cooperating in the fields of military training, military competitions, exchange of experiences, defense industry, and joint cooperation for full security in Syria.


Baqeri’s visit to Russia took place immediately after his travel to Pakistan, where the two countries agreed to hold joint naval exercises.

Wrong article..sorry


TEHRAN – In the latest sign of activating Iran’s new policy orientation, a senior Iranian general started a regional tour that included visits to two pivotal neighbors of the country in a bid to strengthen regional ties and dispel threats emanating from recent developments in the region.


Iran’s Chief of Staff of the Armed Forces Major General Mohammad Bagheri arrived in Moscow on Sunday as part of his renewed efforts to improve relations with a number of Iran’s neighbors. The visit was done at the official invitation of Russian Defense Minister General Sergei Shoigu.


In addition to Shoigu, the Iranian general also met his Russian counterpart, Valery Gerasimov. During his visit, Bagheri discussed two main things: Arms deals with Russia and regional developments, especially Afghanistan.


The Iranian embassy in Moscow said in a mid-October announcement that Bagheri will “exchange views with Russian officials on the development of cooperation and joint defense and military relations, the fight against terrorism, and reviewing regional and international changes.”


Bagheri himself said upon his arrival in Russia that he will pursue the implementation of an arms deal for purchasing fighter jets, training jets, and combat helicopters from Russia. During a meeting with Iranian experts at the Iranian embassy in Moscow, the senior general pointed out that the deal had been signed in the aftermath of the lifting of a UN arms embargo on Iran in October last year.


He confirmed that discussions on mutual cooperation, defense, and military relations, the latest regional and international developments, as well as the fight against terrorism, are on the agenda of his visit to Moscow.


“We need a roadmap to have strong relations with countries, especially Russia and other neighboring countries,” the general said, according to Iran’s state news agency, IRNA.


The visit to Russia came at a time when Afghanistan still has no internationally recognized government in the wake of the Taliban’s takeover of Kabul. Iran has voiced concerns over the possible rise of terrorism in Afghanistan after the Taliban overran Kabul. Recent suicide attacks against Shi’ite prayers in two mosques in Afghanistan have only exacerbated these concerns. Iran warned of sectarian sedition in Afghanistan after these attacks claimed the lives of dozens of Shi’ite Muslims.


“The Foreign Ministry also warns of plots by the enemies of the Islamic ummah to cause divisions, and stresses the need for unity and solidarity among Shias and Sunnis and for rejection of violence and extremism in the name of Islam. This heart-wrenching incident and the past tragic events including the terrorist attack in Konduz highlight more than ever before the need for beefing up security and boosting protection of Shia and Sunni worshiping places and other gatherings in Afghanistan. The Islamic Republic of Iran is confident that our Muslim brothers and sisters in Afghanistan will foil the divisive schemes of their enemies through solidarity, co-thinking and joint efforts,” the Iranian foreign ministry said in a statement earlier this week.


Bagheri said the developments in Afghanistan were an important part of his talks with the Russian officials. His visit to Russia also came on the heels of another visit to Pakistan where he met with high-ranking Pakistani military officials to discuss Afghanistan.


In Moscow, Bagheri said he succeeded in dispelling “negative mentalities” just as he did in Pakistan.


General Bagheri rarely makes foreign visits. So, his tour of Pakistan and Russia is of real importance particularly in terms of reiterating the new trend in the foreign policy of Iranian President Ayatollah Seyed Ebrahim Raisi’s administration, which is based on closer cooperation and consultations with neighboring countries.
Yes, it's official. No longer a rumour or a baseless fake news as in the past. This time around Iran really ordered fighter jets, trainer aircraft and military helicopters (either ground attack choppers or naval ones) from Russia. The Tweet shared by user Messerschmitt right above your post is saying the same (hence my remark in the other thread).

I'd be interested to know what the order is composed of. Especially since there's no guarantee if and when Russia is going to fulfill the contract. I imagine two to four squadrons of Su-35's (around 48 to 50 units) as these would suit Iran's requirements better than the Su-30 in this day and age, a comparable amount of Yak-130, but I've no idea as to the helicopters.
 
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Mr Iran Eye

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I had suspected this for a long time about the purchase of the Yak-130. It is an aircraft that can do combat too and the recent version that I have seen is really very good. Very powerful light fighter aircraft
 

aryobarzan

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Yak-130 trainer/fighter is one of the most expensive at 30 to 35 million a piece..That would kill the Yaseen trainer project .
 

sanel1412

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Yes, it's official. No longer a rumour or a baseless fake news as in the past. This time around Iran really ordered fighter jets, trainer aircraft and military helicopters (either ground attack choppers or naval ones) from Russia. The Tweet shared by user Messerschmitt right above your post is saying the same (hence my remark in the other thread).

I'd be interested to know what the order is composed of. Especially since there's no guarantee if and when Russia is going to fulfill the contract. I imagine two to four squadrons of Su-35's (around 48 to 50 units) as these would suit Iran's requirements better than the Su-30 in this day and age, a comparable amount of Yak-130, but I've no idea as to the helicopters.
It really depends on what Russia was willing to offer in terms of cuting long range offensive capabilties,which they will probably implement,even this will not impact Iran,since it can easily integrate own precise munition for bomber role..still it can influence choice of aircraft..For example they will probably include only defansive weapons,like air to air weapons and short to medium range air to ground missiles...will see again,but I suppose they will try not upset a lot Israel...In past it was rumor about IRIAF want larger batch of SU-30 and small batch of SU-35 but this was probably due multirole capabilities since they saw probably more for less price..but if offensive weapons would be off the shelf than they would probably go for more airt to air capable aircraft as SU-35 since Iran has lot of option for bomber role,it has also good offensive weapons..so they would probably look for SU-35..there is also very advanced mig-35 version as option as addition...I saw delegation,there is IRIAF officers..Also dont forget there is China also as option,maybe they will balance..in terms of F-14 perfomance fighter..Russia is only option,but China has J-10 with AESA radar with very good weapons and very attractive future upgrade to long range AAM. SU-35 is best option if offensive air to ground and anti ship weapons would not be available...but if Russians offer everything than I would bet on larger SU-30 batch and smaller SU-35 batch...IRIAF wiould see better fit due SU-30 wider multi role application while still they can use it as force multiplier to SU-35 if need it in A-A role..in case Russians offer only defansive weapons pack than they will probably choose strongest platform SU-35 ...and as I said it may even offer SU-35 and Mig 35 as multi role platform,since MIG-35 would not upset Israel as large SU-30 and SU-35 batch with full pack...in that case it would give Iran significant offensive boost...even this cant be avoided even if Russians just sell Iran air to air missiles...Iran can equip these platforms easily with domestic weapons for anti ship and bomber role...But I still expect Russians dont sell some weapons or at least dont do it publicly so they can navigate with US,Israel and PGCC protests..even I never understood those idiots who buy billions of most advanced weapons and than protest when enemy do the same
 

thesaint

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Arms embargo was lifted last october, and this october they're talking about new arms purchase. My wild guess is there was agreement about one year of silence or wait.
 

aryobarzan

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Dorna project too. Yak-130 seems unnecessary
Yes Dorna project was the lead to the Yaseen trainer..and Yaseen was at flight test stage last year...there was even talk about export version at 6 million per aircraft..if Yak purchase is indeed true then all that effort is out the door...I wait for actual news.
 

SalarHaqq

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Yes Dorna project was the lead to the Yaseen trainer..and Yaseen was at flight test stage last year...there was even talk about export version at 6 million per aircraft..if Yak purchase is indeed true then all that effort is out the door...I wait for actual news.
Yak wasn't mentioned by name, but the term trainer aircraft was explicitly cited in the news. Personally I wouldn't know what other Russian-made trainers could have been meant here, maybe there are others. However it had been reported several times in the past that Iran expressed interest in the Yak-130; then again, these reports weren't necessarily credible. Also, Iran has two distinct air forces... could it be that some of these are intended for the IRGCAF? I'd be surprised if it were the case, just contemplating theoretical hypotheses.

- - - - -

It really depends on what Russia was willing to offer in terms of cuting long range offensive capabilties,which they will probably implement,even this will not impact Iran,since it can easily integrate own precise munition for bomber role..still it can influence choice of aircraft..For example they will probably include only defansive weapons,like air to air weapons and short to medium range air to ground missiles...will see again,but I suppose they will try not upset a lot Israel...In past it was rumor about IRIAF want larger batch of SU-30 and small batch of SU-35 but this was probably due multirole capabilities since they saw probably more for less price..but if offensive weapons would be off the shelf than they would probably go for more airt to air capable aircraft as SU-35 since Iran has lot of option for bomber role,it has also good offensive weapons..so they would probably look for SU-35..there is also very advanced mig-35 version as option as addition...I saw delegation,there is IRIAF officers..Also dont forget there is China also as option,maybe they will balance..in terms of F-14 perfomance fighter..Russia is only option,but China has J-10 with AESA radar with very good weapons and very attractive future upgrade to long range AAM. SU-35 is best option if offensive air to ground and anti ship weapons would not be available...but if Russians offer everything than I would bet on larger SU-30 batch and smaller SU-35 batch...IRIAF wiould see better fit due SU-30 wider multi role application while still they can use it as force multiplier to SU-35 if need it in A-A role..in case Russians offer only defansive weapons pack than they will probably choose strongest platform SU-35 ...and as I said it may even offer SU-35 and Mig 35 as multi role platform,since MIG-35 would not upset Israel as large SU-30 and SU-35 batch with full pack...in that case it would give Iran significant offensive boost...even this cant be avoided even if Russians just sell Iran air to air missiles...Iran can equip these platforms easily with domestic weapons for anti ship and bomber role...But I still expect Russians dont sell some weapons or at least dont do it publicly so they can navigate with US,Israel and PGCC protests..even I never understood those idiots who buy billions of most advanced weapons and than protest when enemy do the same
True. Now there are a couple more questions.

One, why would the Russians sign such an agreement if they don't really think of delivering the aircraft? Under such circumstances, what exactly would they stand to gain apart from disappointing the Iranians over another weapons deal? I don't think it's the money, as Iran would be naive to accept making advance payments. Would it simply be a political bargaining chip vis a vis the US or even Tel Aviv? If so, how often could Moscow possibly pull this off, also in view of the pros and cons?

Two, what can be said about Iran's future defence programs in light of this news? Apparently Iran does wish to replace or enhance parts of its fleet through imports. Unless nobody in Tehran really believed that Russia will actually proceed with the sale, and the contract was in fact signed to serve some other goal (of geo-political nature).

What are the implications for possible long term domestic fighter projects? Would Iran have succeeded in including transfer of technology, local assembly and/or production of (spare) parts into the terms of the deal?

Three, in what ways would these items complement Iran's current defence capabilities and fit into its military doctrine?
 
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TheImmortal

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Dorna project too. Yak-130 seems unnecessary
Yes Dorna project was the lead to the Yaseen trainer..and Yaseen was at flight test stage last year...there was even talk about export version at 6 million per aircraft..if Yak purchase is indeed true then all that effort is out the door...I wait for actual news.



Yak wasn't mentioned by name, but the term trainer aircraft was explicitly evoked in the news. Personally I wouldn't know what other Russian-made trainers could have been meant here, maybe there are others. However it had been reported several times in the past that Iran expressed interest in the Yak-130; then again, these reports weren't necessarily credible. Also, Iran has two distinct air forces... could it be that some of these are intended for the IRGCAF? I'd be surprised if it were the case, just contemplating theoretical hypotheses.

- - - - -



True. Now there are a couple more questions.

One, why would Russia sign such an agreement if they don't really think of delivering the aircraft? Under such circumstances, what exactly would be in it for them other than disappointing the Iranians over another weapons deal? I don't think it's the money, as Iran would be naive to accept making advance payments. Would it simply be a political bargaining chip vis a vis the US or even Tel Aviv? If so, how often could Moscow possibly pull this off, also in view of the pros and cons?

Two, what can be said about Iran's future defence programs in light of this news? Apparently Iran does wish to replace or enhance parts of its ageing fleet through imports. Unless nobody in Tehran really believed that Russia will actually proceed with the sale, and the contract was in fact signed to serve some other goal (of geo-political nature).

What are the implications for possible long term domestic fighter projects? Would Iran have succeeded in including transfer of technology, local assembly and/or production of (spare) parts among the terms of the deal?

Three, in what ways would these items complement Iran's current defence capabilities and fit into its military doctrine?
I told you guys over and over about the status of Iran’s domestic production. You choose all not to listen. Anyone that thinks that Yaseen or whatever name they are calling the 20 year development program for a trainer aircraft was a “serious” project clearly is a fanboy.

I mean the last time it was freaking green with mismatching panels reminded me of Frankstein. I have gone ahead and told you all that the Iranian airforce budget is by some accounts as low as 100M and def below .5B

On top of that, IRGC does not view manned aircraft as a serious necessity over drone technology. And even on top of that, the Shah era stick up their asses in Air Force only want foreign aircraft and are super super picky about what aircraft they will choose. So they won’t blow their limited funds or one chance on a Indian Tejas-like disaster project.

So like I said no funding + picky airforce + lack of intiative from top brass to transform the force (like you saw with Missile, AD, Navy) means basically airforce is dead in water till some genius visionary scientist and his team put together a decent engine on a shoestring budget against all odds to convince brass to change their mind. Disney should direct that movie.
 
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TheImmortal

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The Fighter Plane Supports Kowsar is a wonderful advanced technology from Iran and this plane is very far from a joke. And this plane continues to improve as the F-4 SM. I like to have 5 to 7 Kowsar as 1 su-35 for the same price! Tactical side and power, it's better.

And let Iran work their heavy combat planes. I read this week that we will soon have news of the F-313. Let's wait for more ...
Here our resident Baghdad Bob ridiculing me in 2019 saying Qaher news is around the corner and how great Kowsar is vs having SU-35.

The above was in response to when I said Qaher is likely shelved project and Kowsar is at best 3-4 aircraft a year modernization project for F-5 (think Karrar on a micro scale).

Hmmm last I checked still very little Kowsars. Guess Iran is hiding them to scare the USA during war. And still haven’t seen a single flying Qaher 2 years after his great predictions....


Now here in 2021 telling us how much he loves SU-35 and Mig-35.

My choice is the Su-35 and especially the latest advanced version of the Mig-35


It’s always great reading his posts. Brings a smile to my face knowing delusional people are allowed to use computers in the timarestan. :laugh:
 

SalarHaqq

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I told you guys over and over about the status of Iran’s domestic production. You choose all not to listen. Anyone that thinks that Yaseen or whatever name they are calling the 20 year development program for a trainer aircraft was a “serious” project clearly is a fanboy.

I mean the last time it was freaking green with mismatching panels reminded me of Frankstein. I have gone ahead and told you all that the Iranian airforce budget is by some accounts as low as 100M and def below .5B

On top of that, IRGC does not view manned aircraft as a serious necessity over drone technology. And even on top of that, the Shah era stick up their asses in Air Force only want foreign aircraft and are super super picky about what aircraft they will choose. So they won’t blow their limited funds or one chance on a Indian Tejas-like disaster project.

So like I said no funding + picky airforce + lack of intiative from top brass to transform the force (like you saw with Missile, AD, Navy) means basically airforce is dead in water till some genius visionary scientist and his team put together a decent engine on a shoestring budget against all odds to convince brass to change their mind. Disney should direct that movie.
That Iran has signed a contract to purchase trainer aircraft from abroad doesn't necessarily imply that it won't fall back on the Yasin or further developed iterations thereof in case the Russians fail to deliver.

Apparently now Iran is pretty much willing to mobilize the necessary funds to upgrade the air force to some extent, as exemplified by these same contracts, which is something of a novelty compared to the past two to three decades. This amount of money, which will surely be in the billions of USD, would actually go a long way boosting domestic programs if allocated to the latter.

As concerns the pickiness of IRIAF's older generation commanders, shah era officers have retired or are in the process of doing so. And although there's certainly some esprit de corps and some measure of doctrinal rigidity within any branch of an armed force, these aren't feudal fiefdoms either. Reluctant or uncooperative officials can be replaced if the upper echelon of political and military decision making truly deems it necessary. Forty two years would certainly have sufficed to bring about such a change of personnel and the associated way of thinking within the air force, had this really been considered as essential. It's never too late for such an endeavor though.

In any case, present discussions are fundamentally speculative at this point. There's not too much hard evidence available to the public, nor do known facts allow for indisputable logical inference as to what Iran is going to do in future when it comes to the air force.
 
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Iranitaakharin

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What are the implications for possible long term domestic fighter projects? Would Iran have succeeded in including transfer of technology, local assembly and/or production of (spare) parts among the terms of the deal?
It should be clear by now that fighters or aircraft are not priorities...
 

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